Germinating by the moons cycles..?

[gtarman]

I'm afraid I also have to say I personally think this practice is kinda whacky and pointless, but each to their own of course. Maybe it only works if you believe in it

[space cadet swami]

I'm afraid I also have to say I personally think this practice is kinda whacky and pointless, but each to their own of course. Maybe it only works if you believe in it

 

I suppose if you've tried it & seen no apparent benefits, then this would be a fair enough statement.

So out of curiosity, have u tried it yourself gman..?

[Considera]

... there will soon be an invitation to experiment in 2013 if anyone wants to join in...

 

That's now up at http://www.considera.org/2013planting.html

[bogfrog]

Well, i didn't think that i germinated seeds according the moons cycles.. but it turns out i did it without knowing it was the perfect day for sowing yesterday and did the exact same thing a month ago.. The month old vege seedlings are looking fantastic, i've already planted them in my garden and they are taking off.

THEN i have some seedlings which i sowed a month and a half ago (not on a full moon), and these are teeny tiny compared to the younger batch.

So this whole moon cycle thing has provided me with a bit of visible evidence of the impact upon plant growth and i am instictively following it anyway, so come pay day i'll be heading to the organic shop to buy a moon chart.

Can't hurt!

[bullit]

full moon no rain !! its a changing world !! fuk u people plant ya seeds water and watch them grow!!

[bullit]

trick them bastards with ya lights !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! water light water fuk the moon

[gtarman]

I suppose if you've tried it & seen no apparent benefits, then this would be a fair enough statement.

So out of curiosity, have u tried it yourself gman..?

 

I haven't...but in the same manner I could say that I think blood-letting as a cure for disease is nonsense. Just because I haven't tried it doesn't mean it isn't nonsense haha.

As for the validity of moon-germination, I'm a hard evidence kinda guy. My mind is open, but skeptical - if it doesn't seem to have a scientific basis and the evidence supporting it is almost entirely anecdotal...then I'm still happy to be proven wrong - but I would have to be PROVEN wrong before I could be swayed to spend my own time on it. As in, indisputable-scientific-evidence proven, not "I do it and it works great for me" evidence.

There's just too many crackpot theories out there to test all or even any of them - and with seed germination especially, there are so, so, so many other uncontrolled variables at play that it's ridiculous to even consider anecdotal evidence for moon cycles. Give me some well-designed, properly controlled studies affirming it and I'll change my tune, but not until then.

*steps off everybody's toes and leaves*

Edited October 30, 2012 by gtarman

[bogfrog]

I wonder what sowing seeds the night before a solar eclipse does?

Sowed my mutant tricho seeds from nitrogen last night.

hopefully they go crazy.

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

I've tried to do this, and the biggest variable I found is if your not saving your own fresh seed then your germination will be way to sketchy to know anyways... Some seed packs are just duds, others you'll get 100% germination... Rule of thumb if you have to buy commercial/packaged seeds at least start saving your own from your best plants...

The whole moon cycle thing is sorta inline with general seasons to sow vegies/herbs so at worst it's a great poster to have in the garden shed to remind you to sow those seeds you saved last year ;)

[Darklight]

I've tried to do this, and the biggest variable I found is if your not saving your own fresh seed then your germination will be way to sketchy to know anyways... Some seed packs are just duds, others you'll get 100% germination...

This.

I've been finding this especially true of a readily available, once-loved brand of open-pollinated non-hybrid veggie seeds. The ones in the yellow-brown paper envelopes with no pictures on them. Should I name the brand?

Their germination rates have plummeted over the last decade. How on earth it is possible to get nil germinations for 3/5 seed packets when the other two work fine... can't explain it. Especially capsicum. They've been a constant fail

I've given up buying them after the last fiasco. Planting my own parsley seed next to them in the seed bed and I got thousands of plants from my stock

Fortunately we now have a very local seed exchange. So if I miss a crop save I can go and buy from local backup stock

PS if you save seed from commercial hybrid parents, you are potentially not going to get stable characteristic expression from them, they may well be different from the parent stock. Go non-hybrid wherever possible

[MountainGoat]

I am shocked that there seems to be so few people planting with the moon. I definitely do it, have done so for years and it makes a huge difference to germ rate and overall development of the plant. I have done my own experiments and for me it is overwhelmingly conclusive. I've planted tens of thousands of various seeds in the drive for the best genetics. I am interested to see if there is a variance in urban vs rural, but i would lean towards the idea that it wouldn't as it is my belief that it is the gravitational effect of the moon cycle (like with the tides). I have also noticed that plant growth tends to be in cycles with the moon as well. Shoot development and upward movement from the N.M (new moon) to the F.M, and more root development during the other half of the cycle.... Long story short, do your own research, but for me I plant a few days after the new moon (it changes with the time of year, closer to the full in the warmer months) and I take cuttings a few days after the full moon...

[Change]

The more you believe in the power of the moon the better it works, thats a fact

Its also helpful if you can turn a blind eye to all the germination success you experience outside of the set moon germination times

Additionally if the moon knows you dont believe in its power it can sends spirits down into the atmosphere to mess with your germination rates.

The moon is a power spiritual force not to be messed with, underestimating this fact could results in low germination rates or even a heart attack

I have also noticed that plant growth tends to be in cycles with the moon as well. Shoot development and upward movement from the N.M (new moon) to the F.M, and more root development during the other half of the cycle.... Long story short, do your own research, but for me I plant a few days after the new moon (it changes with the time of year, closer to the full in the warmer months) and I take cuttings a few days after the full moon...

This research sounds fascinating,

How did you collect the data to conclude that one half of the moon cycle is better for root formation then the other ?

[Darklight]

The more you believe in the power of the moon the better it works, thats a fact

Its also helpful if you can turn a blind eye to all the germination success you experience outside of the set moon germination times

Additionally if the moon knows you dont believe in its power it can sends spirits down into the atmosphere to mess with your germination rates.

The moon is a power spiritual force not to be messed with, underestimating this fact could results in low germination rates or even a heart attack

Gold. You left out chemtrails tho.

Am as cynical as you, and haven't seen the data on the TC experiments, but my mate is a good scientist who does quality lab work. He would have allowed for all the variables and was working the data over a 2 year period. So I'm fence sitting on this one

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

This.

I've been finding this especially true of a readily available, once-loved brand of open-pollinated non-hybrid veggie seeds. The ones in the yellow-brown paper envelopes with no pictures on them. Should I name the brand?

Their germination rates have plummeted over the last decade. How on earth it is possible to get nil germinations for 3/5 seed packets when the other two work fine... can't explain it. Especially capsicum. They've been a constant fail

I've given up buying them after the last fiasco. Planting my own parsley seed next to them in the seed bed and I got thousands of plants from my stock

Fortunately we now have a very local seed exchange. So if I miss a crop save I can go and buy from local backup stock

PS if you save seed from commercial hybrid parents, you are potentially not going to get stable characteristic expression from them, they may well be different from the parent stock. Go non-hybrid wherever possible

Don't get me started on those seeds....! Sank so much cash into them and got fuck all to jack shit back!! I since joined a community/allotment garden and have been able to forage any edible seed I can want to grow! Everything's been growing true and perfect germs since!

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

The more you believe in the power of the moon the better it works, thats a fact

Its also helpful if you can turn a blind eye to all the germination success you experience outside of the set moon germination times

Additionally if the moon knows you dont believe in its power it can sends spirits down into the atmosphere to mess with your germination rates.

The moon is a power spiritual force not to be messed with, underestimating this fact could results in low germination rates or even a heart attack

This research sounds fascinating,

How did you collect the data to conclude that one half of the moon cycle is better for root formation then the other ?

Too good!

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Seriously tho, have you noticed how the plants droop when they spray chem trails?

[Darklight]

Seriously tho, have you noticed how the plants droop when they spray chem trails?

No.

Dammit, I knew I shouldn't have mentioned the C word :/

[MountainGoat]

"This research sounds fascinating,

How did you collect the data to conclude that one half of the moon cycle is better for root formation then the other ?"

hydroponics, out-doors. and solely for the purpose to check the hypothesis. Undertaken on Basil as it is easy to grow uniform seeds from cuttings from a single mother, and they have a solid enough stem to pull out and play with. I couldn't think of a good way to weigh the root stock without killing the plant, so what I did was measure where the centre of gravity is. The centre of gravity moves up and down the stem over the month. At the full moon it was closest to the root stock, new moon it was further up the stem. There was some variance throughout the year, particularly pronounced movement for the spring equinox. Also, the movement declines in severity as the plant ages and gets larger.

I also studied the difference in cutting survival rates throughout the cycle.

I didn't feel the need to be too exhaustive with this study, this was a secondary study to planting 100 seeds a day for 7 months to see the moons affect. In the planting experiments, weather offers a significant variable so multiple months are required to ascertain the cycle's tendencies. For the root stock, I checked every 3rd day for 3 months.

This research was undertaken in 2012 from May to October (I live in the tropics so winter is the best time to grow most edibles).

Try doing your own research and report back to SAB.

Edited February 7, 2015 by MountainGoat

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

The whole moon cycle thing is sorta inline with general seasons to sow vegies/herbs so at worst it's a great poster to have in the garden shed to remind you to sow those seeds you saved last year ;)

[ace1928]

"This research sounds fascinating,

How did you collect the data to conclude that one half of the moon cycle is better for root formation then the other ?"

hydroponics, out-doors. and solely for the purpose to check the hypothesis. Undertaken on Basil as it is easy to grow uniform seeds from cuttings from a single mother, and they have a solid enough stem to pull out and play with. I couldn't think of a good way to weigh the root stock without killing the plant, so what I did was measure where the centre of gravity is. The centre of gravity moves up and down the stem over the month. At the full moon it was closest to the root stock, new moon it was further up the stem. There was some variance throughout the year, particularly pronounced movement for the spring equinox. Also, the movement declines in severity as the plant ages and gets larger.

I also studied the difference in cutting survival rates throughout the cycle.

I didn't feel the need to be too exhaustive with this study, this was a secondary study to planting 100 seeds a day for 7 months to see the moons affect. In the planting experiments, weather offers a significant variable so multiple months are required to ascertain the cycle's tendencies. For the root stock, I checked every 3rd day for 3 months.

This research was undertaken in 2012 from May to October (I live in the tropics so winter is the best time to grow most edibles).

Try doing your own research and report back to SAB.

How in the world did you measure the centre of gravity of the plant?

That's impressive. Centre's of gravity are not the easiest things to just go out and measure.

It sounds as though your experiments aren't accounting very well for uncontrolled variables. It's a nice idea for sure but a real waste of time unless you get results which are repeatable, verifiable by another and have some kind of consistent pattern in them. If your variables are uncontrolled then any pattern that pops up is useless as you have no idea as to what has ACTUALLY caused the result you see.

A simple thing to keep in mind that will help greatly with further science experiments, and with life in general, is that correlation does not imply causation.

But please I'm really interested in what technique you used for measuring the centre of gravity because that in itself is really useful information even if the rest of the information cannot be due to uncontrolled conditions

Cheers

Edited February 8, 2015 by ace1928

[MountainGoat]

Hey Ace, I agree, there were an amazing amount of uncontrolled variables, as can be expected in an experiment in an uncontrolled environment. If you really wanted to study it, it would be a great thesis, but would require a closed and controlled environment and a few years etc...

I understand that there are way too many variables, however, if you are fairly controlling on the soil, seeds etc and you undertake for several cycles with 100 seeds a day, you can get a fair idea. Enough of an idea that I don't plant outside of the cycle (unless its some random lettuce or something). My aim for the test was solely for my own understanding, it didn't need to stand up to exhaustive scientific rigour to convince me. I didn't plant with the moon prior to that, I thought it was nonsense too, but I was prepared to test it for myself and not simply accept my assumption.

For centre of gravity, I was growing the test plants hydroponically, so I could remove the plants and take relative readings as to where the balance point was (then mark it and check it 3 days later). The readings were taken at the same time each day, with the same drip time (60sec) etc. This was based on the assumption that the relative distribution of mass (above/below ground) of a plant does not change over a long time frame. Again, this was not paid research... I know that there are numerous variables, it doesn't need to be pointed out to me, but again I felt the observations conclusive enough for my assumption to change.

I agree that correlation doesn't equate to causation. However, my undertaking was not to prove causation of the phenomenon, consistent correlation was enough for me to see its value. It was/is not feasible to undertake an exhaustive study on this individually.... so how then can one decide if it is valid or not... by conducting a sufficient level of experiments to appease oneself... Try for yourself....

Have there been any studies which prove no correlation?

Edited February 8, 2015 by MountainGoat

[Darklight]

Sounds like a reasonable start to me, MG isn't making any claims beyond those he's outlined and the experiment seems consistent enough without being in a fully controlled chamber

At least he's admitting to variables which weren't covered by the experiment. Most scientific papers don't list the things they left out ( and sometimes those things are important ) and you don't find that out until you try to replicate the experiment. That's why the submission includes their contact details- so you can ask

[ThunderIdeal]

i don't think gravity or light is the primary way the moon influences the earth...

[whitewind]

Scotobiology

Tidal Forces

Herbivory

[Francois le Danque]

i don't think gravity or light is the primary way the moon influences the earth...

..then what is?

As for the actual question, it's funny this should come up now, as i was just discussing it with a friend the other day. She was insisting that one should not sow on the full moon, whereas i was going to sow on that day anyway and thought the moon was an interesting coincidence.

So we decided we would plant some on the full moon day and if she wanted to prove me wrong she could plant some on a non full moon day. Moving forward about a week, none of the seeds have sprouted! though i think it's because i didn't germinate them on tissue first like usual...

edit: oh yeah when i saw poll i realised another flaw: we live right under the street lights! it's never dark in the yard. it sucks.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Franke von Danke