woof woof woof Posted July 14, 2012 Ripped off of the Shroomery. Here are some selected passages, with pages from the book to follow, from Teratopia: “A large number of grafts are made (1) and, when united, cut across horizontally to expose the maximum area where the two tissues abut (2). All normal shoots that grow out subsequently are nipped out in order to encourage one to arise exactly on the line of the graft (3), carrying up tissues of both components (4,5). This can then be propagated and selectively pruned to try to obtain the stable periclinical form of the chimera.” “Mr. Hirao in Japan tells me that he has seen a number of sectorial chimeras of Ariocarpus Kotschubeyanus, Epithelantha Micromeris, Gymnocalycium Denudatum, and G. Michanovii following the grafting on Echinopsis, some of which he went on to describe and illustrate in Shaboten 25: 8-9 1960.” “a Ubelmannia Pectinifera seedling was grafted on Echinopsis stock. The graft was successful and the scion grew to about 2 cm. After a number of years I noticed the stock had rotted and the rot had also gone into the scion. I managed to save a small piece which I successfully grafted onto a Cereus stock. As it began to grow I realized it was strange and had the color and some of the features of the Uebelmannia but the form of an Echinopsis. Subsequent behavior is totally in line with that of a chimera having a layer of Ubelmannia tissue over a core of Echinopsis. The flowers (which would arise from the meristematic cells below the surface) are like those of Echinopsis. This chimera is stable and reproducible from offsets, so deserves a name: + Uebelechinopsis for the partnership of Uebelmannia and Echinopsis, and 'Treetopper' as a cultivar name for a tophole introduction by the Trees.” “The frontier between what we find attractive and what repels us as malignant is sometimes quite arbitrary. The “diseased” striped tulips and variegated abutilons have already been mentioned. Cactus growers sooner or later may come across a tumor-like outgrowth on one of their pet plants, often covered in a downy wool or colorful abortive flower buds. I have detached and grafted some of these, and the survivors eventually grew out and reverted to normal growth suggesting that the host cells were outgrowing a pathogen. A dramatic picture gallery of tumors that nobody could love is given by Dubrovsky (2002), who found many of the native cacti in the south of Baja California (Pachycereus Pringlei especially) to be scarred with amorphous corky tumours 2-80cm in diameter; some accompanied by a hemiparastic mistletoe, Phoradendron Diguetianum. He compares them to crown galls produced by Agrobacterium Tumefaciens in non-succulents. Haha, been busy! Im on it now.. but truthfully the photos are just hurting me. Thank you 100 times over for posting this, you have confirmed my suspicions and bumped this book to the top of my 'to buy' list What I gather from the first paragraph is... The objective is to slice the united stock horizontally leaving a small piece of scion attached, then repeatedly force it to bud and continually trim the buds until you get an adventitious bud formed of chimeral tissues from between the stock and scion.. Did it have a pictorial? Im assuming thats what the numbers are for, corresponding images.. If I am correct about what I just said, one could in theory trim all areoles off of the scion (does he suggest this?) AFTER making the horizontal cut.. and then one could apply a BAP solution to the area between the two and hope for the best. I dont exactly understand the directions hes giving.. Are you to cut and leave a thin slice of scion, or cut directly through the vascular bundle, leaving tissues of the scion's vascular bundle, and THEN try to get it to form an adventitious bud right out of the remaining vascular tissue? This is the part I dont understand: Quote: “A large number of grafts are made (1) and, when united, cut across horizontally to expose the maximum area where the two tissues abut (2). Have pics? I better be ready to spend a few hundred.. Because If I read that book its going to be like a shopping catalog until I settle down.. hehe. I need this book. Thanks again for posting this, get back to me on the directions in the first paragraph you posted. BTW, does it mention anything in the book about using radiation on seeds to cause mutation? I have repeatedly read that Gymnocalicium michavonii 'Moon Cactus" is created via treating the seeds with rads, but I cant confirm it. If THIS is possible.. then I must wonder if there are any X-ray technicians with Lophophora seed around here? Thanks again, truly appreciated! Edit: I did some reading about the questions I had.. I think the only questions remaining now are.. How thin do I cut the scion and do I want to include an areole or not? I think this will have to wait until spring, I'll have stock ready. I'll try the BAP when I do it, ill scratch it into the skin right at the fused vascular tissue -M Edited by Methadone (09/07/09 12:55 PM) http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11010433 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted July 14, 2012 hehe,.... here is what I myself have been thinking..... why not airblast Cacti into other cacti.... like what they do with a gene gun..... I thought... I know this might sound crazy.... slightly freeze to break down the cell wands of the cactus you want to airblast.... then shoot it.. haha.... with an airgun in the bottom part of the cactus...... they use micronized gold or thungston shot to deliver gene material with a genegun into the petridish callus material. So I am thinking about doing this,.. but am hoping that some clever SAB mnds could maybe add some pointers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted July 14, 2012 http://boardreader.com/thread/Cactus_Chimera_Aka_Graft_Chimera_The_Eth_x7j0X5qech.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted July 14, 2012 nother crazy idea.... make a tricho/lophop/tricho/lophop graft stack with BAP in between. add some radiation and zapp with electricity! hehehe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anodyne Posted July 14, 2012 don't forget the colchicine when constructing your frankencacti! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moses Posted July 14, 2012 good thread www certainly given me something to think about,i've really got the bug for the coloured gymnocalyciums and quite a few chimeras are of them on myrtillocactus so i shall def be playing with this idea in the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tipz Posted July 15, 2012 wow Have a look at this chimera on ebay.de http://www.ebay.de/itm/1-Astrophytum-caput-medusae-Chimare-CHIMERA-rare-cactus-ariocarpus-aztekium-/180927932261?pt=DE_Haus_Garten_Garten_Blumen_Pflanzen&hash=item2a20252765 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moses Posted July 16, 2012 http://northants.bcss.org.uk/nl172/d1.htm http://cactiguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2267 these are what i'd love to grow 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stillman Posted December 26, 2012 (edited) At the start of the year I grafted a cereus peruvianus to a little Echinopsis barrel, (the hybrid clumpers you get from Bunnings). Anyway about 3 months ago I got some bap and was just cruising around baping anything and everything pretty much. Well today I was Cleaning up and spotted this pup. Bap does some weird stuff to pups but this is unusual to say the least. I'm not going out and saying it is a Chimera but Its definitely odd, Also the way the pup has actually Burst out of the cacti makes me think this could be something pretty cool. Needless to say I will be starting to take care of this one now lol. What you guys think? Sorry about the photos I just can't seem to take a good close up with this camera. Edited December 27, 2012 by Stillman 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stillman Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) I'm really not sure to make of this after doing some reading, according to wiki http://en.wikipedia..../Graft-chimaera grafted hybrid chimeras are formed at the point of connection with the graft and scion. This is obviously not at the join but perhaps the Bap 6 may have overruled this necessity. http://www.cactus-art.biz/note-book/Dictionary/Dictionary_G/dictionary_graft.htm from the above article Occasionally, a so-called "graft hybrid" or "chimera" can occur where the tissues of the stock continue to grow within the scion. Edited December 27, 2012 by Stillman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted December 29, 2012 interesting, keep us updated! might be a normal pup Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stillman Posted December 29, 2012 Could be indeed, just has a weird cylindrical smoothness, I figure give it a couple months and it will be obvious either way. I just though it was weird as. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irabionist Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Reviving this thread as there seems to be an increase in Chimeras around the way.Stoncereus griseus + Obregonia denegrii 'Aurea'Hylocereus trigonus + Gymnocalycium mihanovichii 'Hibotan' Ariocarpus retusus + Echinopsis subdenuata Astrophytum caput-medusa + Ferocactus glaucescens There are a few more, like someone recent;y came out with an Astrophytum asterias + Myrtillocactus chimera that seems to be forming. I'll update in the upcoming days with more that i've come across! Edited August 11, 2015 by Sabry 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irabionist Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) This is the asterias-myrtillo I was talking about and here's an Astrophytum ornatum & Leuchtenbergia principis Edited August 11, 2015 by Sabry 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Myeloblast Posted August 21, 2015 It's probably too early to tell for sure, but this is a plant of mine that might be growing as a chimera. I grafted a fissuratus v. hintonii plant onto this stock, but it failed and shriveled up. Little while later, growth started to form at the vascular ring, and now it's looking like it has features of both ariocarpus and trichocereus 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irabionist Posted August 23, 2015 Mmmmmm really looks like it!!! beauty as it is anyway! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bogfrog Posted August 24, 2015 Wow..... Too cool. Are those yours Sabry? Or found pics? Either way, mind = blown. So much variety. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mesq Posted August 24, 2015 I have nothing to add except that plurals do not need an apostrophe. I think it's better to just not use apostrophes rather than use them incorrectly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites