The Great Global Warming/Cooling Thread Part 2

[Dolos]

i mean, heat records are being broken and it's "only" an "average" year (meaning there's no enso to push temperatures up). when there's another el nino, and there will be another one, things are just going to get worse. but you say emphatically that temperatures are not higher, and even if they were there's nothing to be concerned about. clearly there is.

. I'm surprised this is from you. Are you trying to say that in our past, every time temperature records were broken there was an el nino event responsible for driving up those temps? What then has caused the freezing temperatures in the Ukraine that has resulted in over 100 deaths. Please clarify. The weather channel explained very well last week what the cause was for the hot weather. It was a convergence of two pressure systems. Surprisingly they were very non alarmist in that report. You guys are the ones that have come to the conclusion that this heat wave is AGW related. It suits your agenda.

[Dolos]

In 2000, scientists at perhaps the world’s centre of global warming alarmism issued this prediction:

According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia, within a few years winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event”.

”

Children just aren’t going to know what snow is

,” he said.

 

It’s now 2013 - which surely must now qualify as “within a few years”.

Russia:

On Friday,

Moscow was on a verge of traffic collapse as more than 10 inches of snow fell on the city

, which is more than half of January’s average… In the Altai Republic in Western Siberia, 12 Russian settlements were isolated because of the snowstorm…

In the end of 2012, Russia saw extreme winter not witnessed since 1938. The coldest-ever December in Russia led to the evacuation of hundreds of people in Siberia, where temperatures fell below -50 degrees Celsius; Moscow also saw its coldest night ever for the season.

 

Britain:

Snow is expected to blanket the UK for the next week, with no end to the freezing conditions in sight.

 

Europe:

Snowfalls across western Europe have disrupted travel plans, with cancellations and closures at some major airports.

 

I really don’t think global warming is working out as the experts predicted.

[Dolos]

ROFLMAO....Is that you Whitewind? Or you Halcyon out there saving the planet as your always going on with. I think the hockey stick is a nice touch...don't you?

[CβL]

ROFLMAO....wow did I get the little kiddies hot and bothered yesterday. The last five responses from you guys are and obvious display of just how pissed off I got you. Mission accomplished...I had a great day, so thanks. And as a bonus I gave the boys over at climate change dispatch a good old chuckle at your arrogance and foolishness, particularly whiteboy. And whiteboy.Your finished with me so don't bother. I won't read your juvenile posts any more. Straight out of grade school stuff from you. You even write like a kid. I'll be a lot more active here from now on. There is just so much out there that debunks you lot but just not enough hours in the day. Bring the hand puppet guy back too. He’s good value even if he contributes nothing but shit and insults.

Well well well, Dolos admits to trolling now. It's as if he thinks that saying "haha, I was trolling" makes his wilful ignorance (aka stupidity) go away.

Please leave the thread, or better yet - spend a few thousand hours learning about science before coming back - because right now you're nothing but a nasty haemorrhoid on what was once a thread that served a purpose.

Lastly - who, other than the playground bully from the first 2 years of primary school - tries to mock someone's name? Do you know how stupid and pointless that it - and how it reflects on your intellect more than anything else - namely that you have nothing better to say.

[Dolos]

Well well well, Dolos admits to trolling now. It's as if he thinks that saying "haha, I was trolling" makes his wilful ignorance (aka stupidity) go away.

Please leave the thread, or better yet - spend a few thousand hours learning about science before coming back - because right now you're nothing but a nasty haemorrhoid on what was once a thread that served a purpose.

Lastly - who, other than the playground bully from the first 2 years of primary school - tries to mock someone's name? Do you know how stupid and pointless that it - and how it reflects on your intellect more than anything else - namely that you have nothing better to say.

Tick...another of the gullible jumps in. You obviously haven't read the thread, or much of it or you would realize that the same childishness has been coming from them for months, maybe nearly a year....I have merely enjoyed mocking them. I wonder what the reaction would be if I was in the cult and they were not. Bet you’d jump to my defence wouldn’t you? I could show example after example of these amazing intellectuals that you are referring to doing the exact same thing. Often! That’s what members of a cult do.

Good day

[CβL]

Your ability to listen and comprehend has atrophied - you seem to think that when people disagree with you, it's an attack. As a result, you reply with plain attacks - this is why I've singled you out, not for any other reason. Sometimes lessons come in the form of slaps - might be something worth noting for the future.
Secondly, you've assumed I'm supporting a 'team', which is an incorrect assumption. So your reply is actually tangent to where it should be - another result of atrophied listening skills. Listening means actually taking into account what the other party is saying, conjuring up the concepts and using your imagination to try and understand - rather than predicting what they're about to say and using the time to come up with a retort.

Good luck in the future with your attitude - you'll need all the luck you can be wished.

Edited January 21, 2013 by CβL

[Dolos]

There are none so blind as those with an agenda.

Your ability to listen and comprehend has atrophied - you seem to think that when people disagree with you, it's an attack. As a result, you reply with plain attacks - this is why I've singled you out, not for any other reason.

Your kidding here, right? Are you deliberately misleading? Bending things to suit? ! You have singled me out for obvious reasons. Any one with half a brain can see that as fact. If we were to place this thread in the hands of an independent third party with no axe to grind would they come up with the same conclusion as you have? I would doubt it. I'm pretty sure the conclusion would be they have all been as bad as each other. It takes more than one to tango. One can only come to the conclusion that you haven't read much of the thread. You have gone off half cocked in defence of the new religion...fairly bloody obvious really. Your kidding nobody but yourself.

Sometimes lessons come in the form of slaps - might be something worth noting for the future.

You call that a slap? What lesson do you believe you have taught me grasshopper? That members of the same cult will always come to the others defence. I already new that. Again, if you had read the thread you would have noticed that over time. There was more than one of you on Sunday willing to jump in with contributions no more silly than any of mine. I was even told on Sunday to "bring it on". But his behaviour is fine cause he is fighting for the cause. The fact that many others poor behaviour here has been so readily overlooked calls you out as biased.

Secondly, you've assumed I'm supporting a 'team', which is an incorrect assumption

Is it? Really? I call crap!

Secondly, you've assumed I'm supporting a 'team', which is an incorrect assumption. So your reply is actually tangent to where it should be - another result of atrophied listening skills. Listening means actually taking into account what the other party is saying, conjuring up the concepts and using your imagination to try and understand - rather than predicting what they're about to say and using the time to come up with a retort.

 

Maybe I have issues listening...but I don't think so. Yours is obviously reading because if you had of and if you were truly an honest person you would admit the plainly obvious. YOUR BIASED!

Good luck in the future with your attitude - you'll need all the luck you can be wished.

Why thankyou CBL. You can never have too much luck.

[Dolos]

Oh and by the way...this thread is in chill space. I'm chillin!

[CβL]

Koch-Funded Study Finds 2.5°F Warming Of Land Since 1750 Is Manmade, ‘Solar Forcing Does Not Appear To Contribute’

By Joe Romm on Jan 20, 2013 at 12:17 pm

The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature Study (BEST) has finally published its findings on the cause of recent global warming. This Koch-funded reanalysis of millions of temperature observations from around the world, “A New Estimate of the Average Earth Surface Land Temperature Spanning 1753 to 2011,” concludes:

 

…

solar forcing does not appear to contribute to the observed global warming of the past 250 years; the entire change can be modeled by a sum of volcanism and a single anthropogenic [human-made] proxy

.

 

 

>

The decadal land surface temperature from BEST average (black line), “compared to a linear combination of volcanic sulfate emissions (responsible for the short dips) and the natural logarithm of CO2 (responsible for the gradual rise) shown in red.

Inclusion of a proxy for solar activity did not significantly improve the fit

. The grey area is the 95% confidence interval.”

 

You may recall that back in July, Richard Muller, BEST’s Founder and Scientific Director, published a NY Times op-ed, “The Conversion of a Climate-Change Skeptic,” which concluded

 

Three years ago I identified problems in previous climate studies that, in my mind, threw doubt on the very existence of global warming. Last year, following an intensive research effort involving a dozen scientists, I concluded that global warming was real and that the prior estimates of the rate of warming were correct. I’m now going a step further:

Humans are almost entirely the cause.

 

The finding itself is “dog bites man” (see It’s “Extremely Likely That at Least 74% of Observed Warming Since 1950″ Was Manmade; It’s Highly Likely All of It Was).

What makes this “man bites dog” is that Muller has been a skeptic of climate science, and the single biggest funder of this study is the “Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation ($150,000).” The Kochs are the leading funder of climate disinformation in the world!

Muller further explained:

 

Our results show that the average temperature of the earth’s land has risen by two and a half degrees Fahrenheit over the past 250 years, including an increase of one and a half degrees over the most recent 50 years. Moreover,

it appears likely that essentially all of this increase results from the human emission of greenhouse gases

.

These findings are stronger than those of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the United Nations group that defines the scientific and diplomatic consensus on global warming.

 

In short, a Koch-funded study has found that the IPCC “consensus” underestimated both the rate of surface warming and how much could be attributed to human emissions!

The Koch-finded study also finds, “the rate of warming we observe is broadly consistent with the IPCC estimates of 2-4.5°C warming (for land plus oceans) at doubled CO2.” A summary of BEST’s findings are on their website.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/01/20/1474571/koch-funded-study-finds-25f-warming-of-land-since-1750-is-manmade-solar-forcing-does-not-appear-to-contribute/?mobile=nc

[Evil Genius]

Listen Dolos and listen good. First, dont Spam this Thread with multiple posts or i will reduce your ability to post more than one or two posts a day or put you on mod preview and only approve them once a week or so whenever i have a funny day. Second, Stop Trolling! besides Im really really fed up with the way you guys handle your climate discussion again and i really think about closing the whole Thread and delete all kind of Climate related Discussions in the future because you can obviously not discuss this issue without arguing. So Dolos, when i say that this is the final warning for you and for this thread, it really is. And the same applies for the other side as well. If you wanna keep the Thread, now its the time to get your shit together and act like the adults i hope you are. And Dolos, i will not discuss this issue any further, not here and not via pm. If your not happy with the way i´m seeing things then thats what it is and you have to go to the big climate conspiracy boards that hopefully exist somewhere in the world. Personally, i think the way you use this forum for your highly provocative posts was uncomplainingly tolerated by me for a very long time and now i expect you to keep your posts polite and friendly or not post at all. bye Eg

Edited January 21, 2013 by Evil Genius

[whitewind]

Please don't close the thread EG it was fine up until just now. I find it interesting to have all the latest studies and information posted in one place, you don't get that a lot on MSM and I don't have a lot of time to hunt around. No-one else is trolling on here. That's all Dolos wants to achieve is to close down debate! Don't let it happen here as well.

Pleeease

Edited January 21, 2013 by whitewind

[CβL]

I was quite angry earlier in the day, and that's why I took such a confrontational approach. I apologize Dolos - for being confrontational and fairly rude. :/

[Halcyon Daze]

Yeah, I'm sorry too guys.

The whole denialism does seem to be a major part of the CC issue at the moment, maybe even reaching it's apex around the world. But it has been getting beyond the joke lately, like some sort of diversionary tactic IMO.

We need a CC thread, it's too important, it's just a shame it's such a magnet for the die hard deniers.

Once again SORRY and Thanks for your patience EG

[whitewind]

What’s causing Australia’s heat wave?

http://theconversation.edu.au/whats-causing-australias-heat-wave-11628

18 January 2013, 7.41am AEST
What’s causing Australia’s heat wave?



Australia has always had heat waves, but the current one is far from typical. Daniel Alexander Head
Australia has started 2013 with a record-breaking heat wave that has lasted more than two weeks across many parts of the country. Temperatures have regularly gone above 48°C, with the highest recorded maximum of 49.6°C at Moomba in South Australia. The extreme conditions have been associated with a delayed onset of the Australian monsoon, and slow moving weather systems over the continent.

Australia has always experienced heat waves, and they are a normal part of most summers. However, the current event affecting much of inland Australia has definitely not been typical.

The most significant thing about the recent heat has been its coverage across the continent, and its persistence.
It is very unusual to have such widespread extreme temperatures — and have them persist for so long. On those two metrics alone, spatial extent and duration, the last two weeks surpasses the only previous analogue in the historical record (since 1910) – a two-week country-wide hot spell during the summer of 1972-1973.

A good measure of the spatial extent of the heat is the Australian-averaged maximum daily temperature. This is the average of the highest daily temperature of the air just above the surface of the Australian continent, including Tasmania. The national average is calculated using a three-dimensional interpolation (including topography) of over 700 observing sites each day.

On Monday and Tuesday last week (January 7 and 8) that temperature rose to over 40°C. Monday’s temperature of 40.33°C set a new record, beating the previous highest Australian daily maximum of 40.17°C set in 1972. Tuesday’s temperature came in as the 3rd highest on record at 40.11°C.

The accompanying map of temperatures shows just how much of the country experienced extremely high temperatures, with over 70% of the continent recording temperatures in excess of 42°C.
Highest daily maximum temperature during the first two weeks of January. Australian Bureau of Meteorology


And it’s not like these sorts of days occur that often. The records set last week sit between two and three standard deviations above the long-term January mean of 35°C.

Perhaps more unusually, the Australian mean temperature (representing the average of the daytime maximum and night-time minimum) set record high values on both days at 32.22 (January 7) and 32.32°C (January 8), that were well above the previous high of 31.86°C, set in 1972.

However, it is really the duration of this extreme heat wave that makes it so unusual, and so significant in terms of impacts.

While some towns in Australia are famous for their extended runs of hot temperatures, the limited geographical nature of those events distinguish them from this January’s heat wave. Multiple days of extreme heat covering most of the continent are both rare, and isolated.

It is not that common for the Australian-average temperature to exceed 39°C for even two days in a row. A run of three days above 39°C has occurred on only three occasions, and a run of four days just once, in 1972.
The current heat wave has seen a sequence of Australian temperatures above 39°C of seven days, and above 38°C of 11 days straight.

The sequence of Australian mean temperature has been just as impressive. As things currently stand, the first two weeks of January 2013 now hold the records for the hottest Australian day on record, the hottest two-day period on record, the hottest three-day period, the hottest four-day period and, well, every sequential-days record stretching from one to 14 days for daily mean temperatures.

The number of records that have tumbled for individual sites are now too numerous to catalogue here, and the Bureau of Meteorology has prepared a Special Climate Statement with a detailed analysis the temperature records broken. The list of records is limited to just those stations with at least 30 years of records.
So, does all this have something to do with climate change?

To put it in context, we need to look at the influence of background changes in the climate system.
The planet is warming, and so is Australia
Planet Earth is warming up. Climate scientists use a range of different indicators to track global warming. These include ocean heat content, sea surface temperatures, sea level, temperatures in the lower and middle troposphere, and the rate of melting glaciers and ice sheets.

The surface of the earth, as measured by global mean temperature, has warmed by about one degree Celsius during the past hundred years, and the decade from 2001 to 2010 has been the warmest we have recorded.
This warming has been strongly attributed to increasing greenhouse gases from human activities. While there are a number of influences on the climate system, such as changing solar radiation and changing atmospheric aerosols, it is very clear that warming has been dominated by increased carbon dioxide levels.

The globe doesn’t warm uniformly everywhere, due mostly to natural regional variations in climate. In Australia, land temperatures and the temperatures of the surrounding oceans have warmed by approximately 1°C since 1910, fairly close to the global trends.
A warmer planet means a warmer atmosphere for all our weather and climate
As the climate system warms due to increasing greenhouse gases, more energy is retained in the lower atmosphere. That extra energy influences all our weather and climate.
Hot days, hot nights: how much of it is due to global warming? Richard Riley
In essence, every weather system and ocean current operates in a climate system that is now, on average, a degree warmer than a century ago.

In this way, the impact of global warming is clearly observed in a distribution shift of daily weather, as well as shifts in monthly and seasonal climate, to higher temperatures. As is now communicated by many climate scientists, the warming planet is loading the climate dice in favour of warmer conditions.

So, while the “cause” of an individual weather event, including heat waves, is always proximally linked to antecedent weather conditions — it is possible to determine the influence of climate change on the frequency of occurrence of such an event. This is expressed by the increased likelihood that these extreme events will occur in comparison with the past, or in comparison with climate modelling scenarios of an unchanging climate.

Even further, the antecedent weather conditions in the January heat wave have themselves displayed the influence of a warming world.

The lead-in climate conditions for this event were four months of very warm temperatures across Australia. September to December 2012 was the warmest such period on record (since 1910) for daily maximum temperatures.

During November, a precursor of the January heat wave affected many parts of the country for a prolonged period. It set the highest spring temperature on record for Victoria (and NSW fell just short of its record; it couldn’t beat the extreme heat that occurred in 2009). In this context, the recent heat wave is little more than an extension of a record hot four months for Australia, made worse because it is mid-summer.
We’re seeing more record-breaking heat events than cold events
A relatively small change in the average temperature can easily double the frequency of extreme heat events. Australia has warmed steadily since the 1940s, and the probability of extreme heat has now increased almost five-fold compared with 50 years ago.

Within the past decade, the number of extreme heat records in Australia has outnumbered extreme cold records by almost 3:1 for daytime maximum temperatures and 5:1 for night-time minimum temperature.
More than 70% of Australia has been very hot. AAP Image/Damian Shaw
The duration of heat waves has increased in some parts, especially in the northern half of the continent. Put another way, the frequency of abnormally hot days (above the 90th percentile) has increased by 30% and the frequency of hot nights (above the 90th percentile) has increased by 50%.

It is worth noting the summer just gone in the US was the warmest on record, with extreme heat records broken at a rate never previously seen before. Studies here and overseas are now showing that many of the recent extreme summer heat events around the world — such as the European heat wave of 2003, the Russian heat wave of 2010, and US heat waves during 2011 and 2012 — would have been very, very unlikely without the influence of global warming.

Global warming is not only warming summer but also broadening the summer-like period of the year, creating the perfect set-up for record extreme heat.

Of great concern in Australia is the substantial increasing trend in severe fire weather — weather conducive to the spread and intensification of bushfires and grass fires — in about half of the monitoring sites studied around the country, with a concentrated increase in the southeast of the continent. The fire season is now longer, reducing the time for preparation such as fuel reduction.

Again this is not surprising, and has been predicted in advance — the combined impact of warming and cool season drying is increasing the fire danger in a region already highly fire prone.
We expect extreme warm weather events will occur more often
Future warming of the climate due to greenhouse gas emissions will very likely lead to further increases in the frequency of unusually hot days and nights and continued declines in unusually cold days and nights.
These changes will result in weather events which are increasingly beyond our prior experiences.
And it’s not just temperature extremes. Climate model projections indicate that the frequency of many different types of extreme weather will change as the planet warms.

Edited January 21, 2013 by whitewind

[Dolos]

it's just a shame it's such a magnet for the die hard deniers.

WHO? Just little old me. Thats an example of the dribble I have had to put up with. The only denier through out this whole thread has been me. But apparently it is such a magnet for die hard deniers. There are only 3 people following this whole thread. (sorry, I just remembered, there was another denier, or potential denier a few weeks back. They ganged up on him, threw out their normal insults and he is gone, never to return…they won).

So do what you want evil. This has become somewhat childish over the past few months anyway. (guilty as charged) There is no respect of differing views on either side here and it is now common for others to jump on, slag off and then leave.

Please don't close the thread EG it was fine up until just now. I find it interesting to have all the latest studies and information posted in one place, you don't get that a lot on MSM and I don't have a lot of time to hunt around. No-one else is trolling on here. That's all Dolos wants to achieve is to close down debate! Don't let it happen here as well

Perfect example of why the thread should be closed. Please mum...don't take my thread away. I'll be good I promise. There are many other threads out there that leave this one for dead as far as quality of content goes. If you really wanted to stay on top of this subject, this is not the place you would do it. This thread is full of so much crap now it's has earned it's position in 'chill space'.

For ages now, wether these here would like to admit it or not this thread has been just about one side trying to best the other. And I have enjoyed it for what it is and nothing more.

And the same applies for the other side as well

Thats telling em Evil! We are all as bad as each other here but I am on the wrong side. Funny how you have numbers attacking one and yet it is all the one's fault. I was even threatened on Sunday but I'm the one singled out.

And Dolos, i will not discuss this issue any further, not here and not via pm

Why would that be evil? As a mature adult I would have expected the opportunity for a rational discussion about an issue that has dragged this thread down in the gutter (again, or maybe it's never got out). One man can't drag it there on his own. If Halcyon or Whitewind pm'd you would they also be facing the same treatment as me? I think not...they are on the side of good...How could they be in the wrong? You can't help your bias in this regards. It's a human condition and we are all guilty of it at some time. The ability to recognize you have the problem is a different matter however. Threats of censure are nothing new in this world and nothing new here. Freedom of speech has never been more under attack than it is in this country right now. I would think a person of German decent would be very mindful of what happens when free speech is removed because as an Australian who lost a father defending it I am. I may not agree with your position but I will defend to the death your right to say it. And I will also defend to the death the right to offend.

I don't really care what you do Evil. This is only a childish argument. No blood has

been spilt. Others here like to make it out for what it's not...hey Whitewind. Why would you punish people like Slybacon? What did he do? It was he who started this thread years ago though I don't seem to be able to get that through Whitewinds head. It's seems it's always all about him. Anyway, do as you want. Boot me and shut down the debate. YOU WIN!

Edited January 21, 2013 by Dolos

[whitewind]

At least the weather is nice today

Edited January 21, 2013 by whitewind

[Kee]

Edit

Edited January 22, 2013 by Kee

[Kee]

No I actually just asked if you understood anything you just quoted in that study. Simple answer sounds like: no. I only ask because the methods they've used involve statistical assumptions of confidence which you wouldn't know to look for. Those estimates can be at any level of confidence - which I couldn't find in the study to be defined. I imagine it would be the 66% estimate.

However this is only again about the statistical inferences, numbers can be used to explain both sides of the story if you use the right variables and omit the bad ones. This study is obviously a case for that.

It is one thing to argue that a carbon tax is a foolish measure, your entitled to your opinion on that either way. But to outrightly say that the rapid industrialization of our economies coupled with exponential birth rates and growing globalisation have no impact on our ecological systems just makes you sound like you've got your head in the ground. Even far removed from the realm of ecology, Newtons second law infers the inevitable shifting in ecological balance caused by the introduction of billions more humans pumping billions of new chemicals into the atmosphere, oceans and ground.

[Dolos]

No I actually just asked if you understood anything you just quoted in that study. Simple answer sounds like: no. I only ask because the methods they've used involve statistical assumptions of confidence which you wouldn't know to look for. Those estimates can be at any level of confidence - which I couldn't find in the study to be defined. I imagine it would be the 66% estimate.

However this is only again about the statistical inferences, numbers can be used to explain both sides of the story if you use the right variables and omit the bad ones. This study is obviously a case for that.

May have been nice if you had weighed into the debate in that tone in the first place. There could have been an interesting debate to follow about fudged numbers. I have some examples of the very same cherry picking or 'statistical inferences' by the 'other side' (for ease of future reference). You come in here obviously annoyed at me with your 'do you know what in the hells' and tried to freak me out cause you are a 'Statistics major'. That is basically how every one comes in at me now. Attack!

It is one thing to argue that a carbon tax is a foolish measure, your entitled to your opinion on that either way. But to outrightly say that the rapid industrialization of our economies coupled with exponential birth rates and growing globalisation have no impact on our ecological systems just makes you sound like you've got your head in the ground. Even far removed from the realm of ecology, Newtons second law infers the inevitable shifting in ecological balance caused by the introduction of billions more humans pumping billions of new chemicals into the atmosphere, oceans and ground.

And so it happens again. Where and when have I ever 'out rightly' (your words) said any nonsense of the kind that you wrote but just the opposite. You would know that if you had read just a little of the thread.

I simply deplore alarmism and will call it out when ever I see or hear it and I disagree the planet is warming because of green house gases. It doesn't look to be warming at all at the moment. But how would anyone know really. The snap shot is so small given the age and history of the planet. I do believe mistakes have been made by scientists and attempts have been made to cover them up. A blind man could see that. As for all the other crimes against humanity you believe I am guilty of, not caring about the planet is not one of them. I would say my footprint or environmental impact would be much lower than most here. And that I would be willing and able to prove.

We could have had an adult conversation. Our views may have differed but I could have excepted that. This is how I am treated here all the time. But I have everything backed up even the stuff others think they have edited out. And one more thing...you don't need to be a scientist to discuss things in the global warming/cooling thread, do you? Do you need a university back ground? Do you need be a member of the local 'greens party' cause that’s the way your made feel around here if you have a differing view. Sure the thread has gone off the rails again. But I can assure you that it is not all my fault. You dragged it a bit further off with your post. Each person has before and after you has...each little chip away at me just derails the thread that little more. Course I'm going to get my back up.

Cheers

Dolos.

[whitewind]

Dolos please don't PM me again

[Dolos]

Dolos please don't PM me again

Another example. Your message here is directed at me and could have been sent via a return PM and yet you have chosen to send it to me publicly. Stiring the pot I see...there can be no other reason. I only PM'd you to show you that I had a copy of what you previously posted and quickly removed. Please be reassured I will not PM you again.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Dolos

[IndianDreaming]

I wonder how much this heated discussion is warming the planet?

[Bigred]

im more worried about our oceans, i remember when the Brisbane river was being dredged

and had all types of nasty shit in it. But now have a lot of marine life and heath returning to it

where i live is a great fishing spot but i would not trusting eating it.

just curious in the past volcanoes spewed tons and tons into our atmosphere was there

a direct link to global warming then i really dont know where i stand but a lot of people i

work with are skeptics

[Halcyon Daze]

Well even the PM is weighing in this time.

it's definitely got to that stage IMO. Like the PM says, no-one disputes a smoking causes cancer anymore, it's time to apply the same logic to CC.

Just accept the science and move on basically, we have a planet to save.

http://www.skynews.com.au/eco/article.aspx?id=837964

[IndianDreaming]

I have no idea if the planet is getting hotter or not (It seems warm some days and cool the next ), but a good start in the right direction would be to find a more efficient fuel for cargo ships.

Also, get the USB standard changed so those stupid sticks go in the right way first time every time - the amount of CO2 I've emitted swearing at those things is surely having a negative impact on the environment...