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MXE - Legal Status?

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Looks like their banning MXE in the UK... does anyone know the current legal status in terms of importing? And is possession still legal in Vic?

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MXE is illegal, covered under analogue law as it is an analogue of ketamine.

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hmm, judging by what was said in that post it would be legal to import and posses in Victoria. But personally I wouldn't risk it. I was reading a post from Torsten a week ago where someone he knew almost had a life sentence for importing chemicals which were held then scheduled, then sent back to the importer.

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cmon mate you should know by now... EVERYTHING is illegal in australia.

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^^^ Not everything! :wink:

But usually if it's not listed or is not an analogue.. they will just hold it. Until it is! Then they cumma knockin!

Edited by LikeAshesWeFade

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^^^ Not everything! :wink:

But usually if it's not listed or is not an analogue.. they will just hold it. Until it is! Then they cumma knockin!

 

ok not everything, lets just say, everything that could have the potential to make you have a epithany against the goverment or some kind of spiritual realisation..... ..is illegal??

so basicly if its... FUN its ILLEGAL :P lol

ya i agree this country makes me sick just cant afford to leave it, i would rather work minimal wages in canada in a fatory then getting paid above award here to put up with our goverment.... But that being said we are the worlds 3rd most saughtafter living destination, US,NZ,AU...

find it strange cause NZ beats us but all the kiwis come over here to make a better life 0_o

Edited by vual
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lol @ your last comment!! couldnt have said it any better myself mate.

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Subtraction of a halogen group with addition of a methoxy group is not covered under Criminal Code analog law unless under section f.

(2) A substance is also a border controlled drug if the substance (the drug analogue) is, in relation to a border controlled drug listed in subsection (1) (or a stereoisomer, a structural isomer (with the same constituent groups) or an alkaloid of such a border controlled drug):

(a) a stereoisomer; or

( B) a structural isomer having the same constituent groups; or

© an alkaloid; or

(d) a structural modification obtained by the addition of one or more of the following groups:

(i) alkoxy, cyclic diether, acyl, acyloxy, mono‑amino or dialkylamino groups with up to 6 carbon atoms in any alkyl residue;

(ii) alkyl, alkenyl or alkynyl groups with up to 6 carbon atoms in the group, where the group is attached to oxygen (for example, an ester or an ether group), nitrogen, sulphur or carbon;

(iii) halogen, hydroxy, nitro or amino groups; or

(e) a structural modification obtained in one or more of the following ways:

(i) by the replacement of up to 2 carbocyclic or heterocyclic ring structures with different carbocyclic or heterocyclic ring structures;

(ii) by the addition of hydrogen atoms to one or more unsaturated bonds;

(iii) by the replacement of one or more of the groups specified in paragraph (d) with another such group or groups;

(iv) by the conversion of a carboxyl or an ester group into an amide group; or

(f) otherwise a homologue, analogue, chemical derivative or substance substantially similar in chemical structure;

however obtained, except where the drug analogue is separately listed in subsection (1).

But section f cannot apply, because:

Ketamine is not a border controlled drug or chemical.

314.4 Border controlled drugs

(1) The following table lists border controlled drugs and sets out quantities:

Border controlled drugs and quantities

Border controlled drugs

Marketable quantity

(grams)

Commercial quantity

(kilograms)

1

Acetorphine

2.0

2.0

2

Acetyl‑alpha‑methylfentanyl

0.005

0.005

3

Acetylcodeine

2.0

2.0

4

Acetyldihydrocodeine

2.0

2.0

5

Acetylmethadol

2.0

2.0

6

Allylprodine

2.0

2.0

7

Alphacetylmethadol

10.0

10.0

8

Alphameprodine

0.2

0.2

9

Alphamethadol

0.2

0.2

10

alpha‑Methylfentanyl

0.005

0.005

11

alpha‑Methylthiofentanyl

0.005

0.005

12

Alphaprodine

25.0

25.0

13

Amphecloral

2.0

2.0

14

3‑(2‑Aminopropyl)indole (alpha‑methyltryptamine (AMT))

2.0

2.0

15

Amphetamine

2.0

0.75

16

Anileridine

25.0

25.0

17

Barbiturates

50.0

5.0

18

Benzethidine

10.0

10.0

19

Benzoylecgonine

2.0

2.0

20

Benzylmorphine

5.0

5.0

21

Betacetylmethadol

5.0

5.0

22

beta‑Hydroxyfentanyl

0.005

0.005

23

beta‑Hydroxy‑3‑methylfentanyl

0.005

0.005

24

Betameprodine

5.0

5.0

25

Betamethadol

5.0

5.0

26

Betaprodine

5.0

5.0

27

Bezitramide

5.0

5.0

28

4‑Bromo‑2,5‑dimethoxyamphetamine

0.5

0.5

29

Bufotenine

2.0

2.0

30

Cannabinoids (other than a Cannabinoid of a kind that can be obtained from a plant that is not a Cannabis plant)

2.0

2.0

31

Cannabis (in any form, including flowering or fruiting tops, leaves, seeds or stalks, but not including Cannabis resin or Cannabis fibre)

25,000.0

100.0

32

Cannabis resin

20.0

50.0

33

Chlorphentermine

2.0

2.0

34

Clonitazene

5.0

5.0

35

Cocaine

2.0

2.0

36

Codeine

10.0

10.0

37

Codeine‑N‑oxide

10.0

10.0

38

Codoxime

10.0

10.0

39

Desomorphine

2.0

2.0

40

Dexamphetamine

2.0

2.0

41

Dextromoramide

2.0

2.0

42

2,5‑Dimethoxy‑4‑n‑propylthiophenethylamine (2C‑T‑7)

0.5

0.5

43

2,5‑Dimethoxy‑4‑ethylthiophenethylamine (2C‑T‑2)

0.5

0.5

44

2,5‑Dimethoxy‑4‑iodophenethylamine (2C‑I)

0.5

0.5

45

Diampromide

5.0

5.0

46

Diethylpropion

5.0

5.0

47

Diethylthiambutene

5.0

5.0

48

N,N‑Diethyltryptamine

2.0

2.0

49

Difenoxin

2.0

2.0

50

Dihydrocodeine

10.0

10.0

51

Dihydromorphine

10.0

10.0

52

Dimenoxadol

10.0

10.0

53

Dimepheptanol

10.0

10.0

54

2,5‑Dimethoxy‑4‑methylamphetamine

2.0

0.75

55

1‑Dimethylamino‑1,2‑diphenylethane

5.0

5.0

56

Dimethylthiambutene

20.0

20.0

57

N,N‑Dimethyltryptamine

2.0

2.0

58

Dioxaphetyl butyrate

2.0

2.0

59

Diphenoxylate

2.0

2.0

60

Dipipanone

10.0

10.0

61

Drotebanol

2.0

2.0

62

Ecgonine

10.0

10.0

63

Ethchlorvynol

50.0

50.0

64

Ethinamate

50.0

50.0

65

Ethylmethylthiambutene

10.0

10.0

66

Ethylmorphine

2.0

2.0

67

Etonitazene

5.0

5.0

68

Etorphine

5.0

5.0

69

Etoxeridine

5.0

5.0

70

Fentanyl

0.005

0.005

71

Furethidine

1.0

1.0

72

Gammabutyrolactone (GBL)

2.0

1.0

73

Glutethimide

50.0

50.0

74

Harmaline

2.0

5.0

75

Harmine

2.0

5.0

76

Heroin (diacetylmorphine)

2.0

1.5

77

Hydrocodone

2.0

2.0

78

Hydromorphinol

2.0

2.0

79

Hydromorphone

2.0

2.0

80

Hydroxyamphetamine

2.0

2.0

81

4‑Hydroxybutanoic acid (GHB)

2.0

1.0

82

Hydroxypethidine

5.0

5.0

83

Isomethadone

2.0

2.0

84

Ketobemidone

2.0

2.0

85

Levophenacylmorphan

2.0

2.0

86

Levomethorphan, but not including dextromethorphan

2.0

2.0

87

Levorphanol, but not including dextrorphan

1.0

1.0

88

Lysergamide

0.1

0.01

89

Lysergide (LSD)

0.002

0.002

90

Meprobamate

50.0

50.0

91

Mescaline

7.5

7.5

92

Metazocine

7.0

7.0

93

Methadone

2.0

2.0

94

Methaqualone

50.0

5.0

95

Methcathinone

96

Methorphan, but not including dextromethorphan

2.0

2.0

97

5‑Methoxy‑alpha‑methyltryptamine (5‑MeO‑AMT)

2.0

2.0

98

5‑Methoxy‑N,N‑diisopropyltryptamine (5‑MeO‑DiPT)

2.0

2.0

99

Methamphetamine

2.0

0.75

100

3,4‑Methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA)

0.5

0.75

101

3,4‑Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)

0.5

0.5

102

Methyldesorphine

2.0

2.0

103

Methyldihydromorphine

2.0

2.0

104

3‑Methylfentanyl

0.005

0.005

105

Methylphenidate

2.0

2.0

106

1‑Methyl‑4‑phenyl‑4‑propionoxypiperidine (MPPP)

2.0

2.0

107

3‑Methylthiofentanyl

0.005

0.005

108

Methyprylon

50.0

50.0

109

Metopon

2.0

2.0

110

Monoacetylmorphines

2.0

2.0

111

Moramide

2.0

2.0

112

Morphan, but not including dextrorphan

2.0

2.0

113

Morpheridine

2.0

2.0

114

Morphine

2.0

1.5

115

Morphine‑N‑oxide

2.0

2.0

116

Myrophine

20.0

20.0

117

Nicocodine

2.0

2.0

118

Nicodicodine

2.0

2.0

119

Nicomorphine

2.0

2.0

120

Noracymethadol

2.0

2.0

121

Norcodeine

2.0

2.0

122

Norlevorphanol

2.0

2.0

123

Normethadone

5.0

5.0

124

Normorphine

20.0

20.0

125

Norpipanone

10.0

10.0

126

Opium

20.0

20.0

127

Oxycodone

5.0

5.0

128

Oxymorphone

2.0

2.0

129

para‑Fluorofentanyl

0.005

0.005

130

Pentazocine

20.0

20.0

131

Pethidine

10.0

10.0

132

Phenadoxone

10.0

10.0

133

Phenampromide

10.0

10.0

134

Phenazocine

1.0

1.0

135

Phencyclidine

2.0

2.0

136

Phendimetrazine

5.0

5.0

137

Phenmetrazine

5.0

5.0

138

Phenomorphan

5.0

5.0

139

Phenoperidine

1.0

1.0

140

Phentermine

5.0

5.0

141

1‑Phenylethyl‑4‑phenyl‑4‑acetoxypiperidine (PEPAP)

2.0

2.0

142

Pholcodine

5.0

5.0

143

Piminodine

10.0

10.0

148

Propiram

10.0

10.0

149

Psilocine

0.1

0.1

150

Psilocybine

0.1

0.1

151

Tetrahydrocannabinols

2.0

5.0

152

Thebacon

2.0

2.0

153

Thebaine

2.0

2.0

154

Thiofentanyl

0.005

0.005

155

Trimeperidine 144

Pipradrol

1.0

1.0

145

Piritramide

1.0

1.0

146

Proheptazine

1.0

1.0

147

Properidine

25.0

25.0

Ketamine IS a customs prohibited import under "drugs" schedule 4, customs (prohibited imports regulations), 112C (recently added). The relevant "analog clause" to these regulations is spelt out on the customs webpage:

  • isomers or mixture of isomers of a controlled chemicals or compounds;
  • a derivative of a controlled chemical or compound, including isomers and mixtures of isomers;
  • substances or things that contain controlled chemical/s or compound/s, including isomers and mixtures of isomers, and derivatives; or
  • other chemicals and compounds that are an immediate precursor to a controlled chemical or compound.

 

This would NOT include MXE.

Lastly, on a federal level, Ketamine is listed as Schedule 8 drug under SUSMDP, which has a similar "analog clause" as the one just cited.

Thus it appears federally that MXE is legal to import and possess, is not customs or border controlled.

NOW, onto the issue of STATE regulation: A lot of states, all of them, enact the SUSMP, and have Ketamine listed as a schedule 8 drug in their Drugs legislation. A lot of states have borrowed analog legislation from the Criminal code, which means that a lot of states theoretically could have MXE illegal under a section similar to section "f" of the criminal code analog clause: (f) otherwise a homologue, analogue, chemical derivative or substance substantially similar in chemical structure;

In which case you could fall foul of being in possession of a Schedule 8 analogue.

The good news, from which I gather from myself and Torsten, is that neither VIC nor WA have an attached analog clause to their Drugs legislation or affixed to their references of the SUSMP. I must add that I am not familiar with state analog clauses, and I doubt that any of them are stronger worded than the criminal code analog clause.

Therefore in WA and VIC MXE is legal to possess, even to sell. And in every other state it falls into the greyest of grey areas, could not be greyer, perhaps not even grey at all if the analog clause is weak... and the laws would probably only be enacted if you were caught selling or with a commercial quantity.

Edited by Thelema
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if that ^ is really the case then i am pretty interested in ordering some. but it would definitely have to be legal for me to want to attempt to.

interesting.

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Where are the risk taking entrepreneurs when you need them.

this is interesting..... very.....

 

 

Edited by vual

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Thelema, thanks for that info. It's interesting that you don't see more of it available in Vic (can't speak for WA). Would love to hear Torsten's take on this...

One would think that if it were that clear cut, it would be available in your local head shop.

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Believe me, it's illegal.

HIGHLY unlikely you'd ever get anything for it though, max you'd get it probably love letter if you're unlucky.

And from what Torsten's told me, and what I've learnt from Australian Drug Discussion over at bluelight.ru forums, analouge laws are very vague and cover everything.

But honestly, I highly doubt if you have a personal amount, that you'd get anything.

Even being caught on import you'd be fine.

But then again, seems to be a lot of people here who'd rather not take the risk, which is way too sensible! :P

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It seems that my interpretation of the SUSMP analog "derivatives" definition was way too conservative. I've just found out that in the SUSMP they have a paragraph which discusses the meaning of "derivative" as it applies to the SUSMP, here's what it says:

It is important to remember that a Schedule entry includes preparations containing the poison in any concentration and all salts and derivatives of the poison unless it specifically states otherwise. (See Interpretation PART 1 [paragraph 1(2)]).

It is important to note that a substance is not classed as a derivative on the basis of a single, prescriptive set of criteria. Classification of a substance as a derivative of a Scheduled poison relies on a balanced consideration of factors to decide if a substance has a similar nature (e.g. structurally, pharmacologically, toxicologically) to a Scheduled poison or is readily converted (either physically or chemically) to a Scheduled poison. However, a substance is only considered a derivative of a Scheduled poison if it is not individually listed elsewhere in the Schedules, or captured by a more restrictive group or class entry. Additionally, some entries specifically exclude derivatives. Once a substance is determined to be a derivative of a Scheduled poison, the same scheduling requirements as the Scheduled poison, including limits on access, supply and availability, will apply

So it seems that MXE probably under this definition will be a derivative of Ketamine, which is listed as a schedule 8.

Believe me, it's illegal.

Well, the question is the precise NATURE of it's illegality. As far as I can see, it is NOT illegal to import federally under the customs act nor the criminal code, but it MAY be illegal to possess under SUSMP analog clauses. So no, customs would have no right to with-hold it from you, but technically you might be in violation of the SUSMP schedule 8 possession-without-entitlement penalties as they apply in different states (whether under poisons schedules, most likely, or drug schedules). I have no idea if people have been charged at a state level using SUSMP derivative enacted legislation, but my feeling is that this piece of legislation, centering around this definition, has NEVER been tested in courts for possession.

Therefore, it is quite dogmatic to say it is illegal without any qualification. In fact, the Scheduling committee must feel that this piece of definitional legislation is so vague, that they occassionally schedule things that they think may be covered anyway under the definition. A good case in point is the recent May 1st 2012 ban of MDPV.

So all in all, YES, it COULD be argued in court that it is a schedule 8 derivative, but it is LEGAL to impot into the country.

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The preceding information in this thread is outdated! Since 18 May 2012 Ketamine is now a border controlled drug listed in the Criminal Code Act 1995 and that means that MXE no longer gets a free pass through the analogue catch-all clause at this level of legislation.

MXE is now, at best, in a legal grey area at the Commonwealth level.

This change was slipped through parliament with a huge number of other completely unrelated acts and was not the focus of much discussion. There was a brief mention of quantities and purity which suggests that this amendment was not made to specifically target MXE, though it will probably still be used that way:

This item also inserts two quantities for Ketamine: a marketable quantity of 3.0 grams, and a commercial quantity of 1.0 kilograms. These quantities are pure quantities. This is relevant where a prosecution relates to a quantity of Ketamine contained in a mixture of other substances. In such a case, the prosecution will need to prove that the mixture contained the relevant threshold quantity of pure Ketamine.

Sources:

Hansard

Criminal Code Act 1995

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yeah I thought I read about that somewhere. The plain thing is tho - people have been having MXE witheld from them via customs for ages now - without any letter on which to be able to base the reasons as to why they're with-holding it.

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yeah I thought I read about that somewhere. The plain thing is tho - people have been having MXE witheld from them via customs for ages now - without any letter on which to be able to base the reasons as to why they're with-holding it.

 

Yep. It shouldn't come as a huge surprise that if customs find a powder they're going to hold it until they can test it, and with the booming online RC market accelerating the volume and range of incoming substances we can expect backlogs as work piles up on the chemists, lawyers and law enforcement officials involved with the complex investigative process.

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lol! so what happens if MXE was technically legal but they confiscated it ? Are they going to pass it on 6 months later? That's a joke, right?

More likely than not there's no chemical investigations, no legal investiation, just a huge "bin" that customs drop shit into that they're not going to send a letter about. I still can't quite believe it myself, I'm considering a freedom of information disclosure about this whole thing. Messing with people's post at least deserves a letter, unless it's plainly illegal marketable/commercial quantities of non-analogue drugs.

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lol! so what happens if MXE was technically legal but they confiscated it ? Are they going to pass it on 6 months later? That's a joke, right?

 

that's exactly what has happened in 3 separate other incidences in the last year, one of them rather close to home . seems to be the new modus operandi to discourage people who are exploiting loopholes or slow legislation. In most cases the initial offence can't stick, but if they raid you 24h later and you're still in possession then your f*cked. In any case, it gains them entry and then they usually find something else.

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But honestly, I highly doubt if you have a personal amount, that you'd get anything.

Even being caught on import you'd be fine.

 

I would suggest to never, ever make this assumption when it comes to customs law. When the ACC/AFP/CDPP decide they want to make an example out of someone you could be that unlucky person who's parcel is picked out. What follows will depend on your circumstances and resources but even personal importation of border-controlled substances carry maximums of two years imprisonment (unlikely of course) but even a small fine might come with a conviction.

The last few years have shown that relying on a substance being in a "legal grey area" is a fool's gamble. Under law, ignorance is not an excuse. In the Commonwealth Criminal Code, mistake of fact is not a defence for crimes of strict or absolute liability for which importation is one of them.

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I would suggest to never, ever make this assumption when it comes to customs law. When the ACC/AFP/CDPP decide they want to make an example out of someone you could be that unlucky person who's parcel is picked out. What follows will depend on your circumstances and resources but even personal importation of border-controlled substances carry maximums of two years imprisonment (unlikely of course) but even a small fine might come with a conviction.

The last few years have shown that relying on a substance being in a "legal grey area" is a fool's gamble. Under law, ignorance is not an excuse. In the Commonwealth Criminal Code, mistake of fact is not a defence for crimes of strict or absolute liability for which importation is one of them.

 

Dude are you THE hoptis from Bluelight? If so we are very lucky to have you posting here.

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^yes, i agree, Bread Filter.

And that was a good post, Hoptis. It is not wise to assume that one is immune to the law of 'example making'. The odds may not be bad, but it is never risk-free.

Edited by Halif

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