a potentially dangerous night

[bogfrog]

During the weekend we had a quite bizarre and really terrifying situation while a group of us were quite inebriated.

It raised some serious questions for all involved, and it could have ended a hell of a lot worse.

I wont go into particulars, as it was a delicate situation and still is really, but one of our best mates became very very angry with his partner while in a 'different head space'. This person is someone we would consider to be very sound of mind, well experienced with psychedelics, someone we all look up to and respect very much, but in this circumstance, they totally lost control of their emotions and verbally and emotionally abused their partner, then physically lashed out at several others in the group.

This person is also extremely fit, trained in combat, and very capable of taking us all out if they decided to.

Although the situation was dealt with without anyone being seriously injured, it was a very terrifying night and we really did not know how things were going to end up.

We realized eventually that in any other situation that psyc services would have been called to take him away, and that if we did that, not only him, but possibly all of us could have ended up in ALOT of long term trouble.

Things were eventually sorted in a relatively nervy manner, which left us all dumb founded, in shock, and very cautious about the use of consciousness expanding tools.

Although there was a huge number of potential contributing factors, and i am relatively certain it was right to deal with the problem without involving authorities, however now this leaves us in a situation where our friend really needs some help to deal with his anger issues and we are unsure what is the best approach to take.

I had never imagined that a trip could turn out quite like that, and i feel it changed everyone that was involved that night.

I would appreciate to hear anyone's views on this, and any suggestions on where to go from here.

It almost seemed like this person had in a way planned what he was going to do because he needed to show us as a group his weakness, although it was some sort of test, which he was personally unaware of the outcome.

I think we did the best we could have considering the situation and the potential repercussions for all involved.

[botanika]

Lucky he wasn't drunk..

[Sallubrious]

That's some scary shit.

Do you think he had some unresolved issues beforehand or did all just erupt in the moment ?

From an outside perspective with only a few scanty details it's hard to say why someone would react like that, but I must say he seems to have underlying issues that he can keep the lid on most of the time and under some conditions he can't. Who knows what he's capable of.

If I was involved I'd want to know his attitude to his behaviour now the dust has settled. If he is in denial and unapologetic he could have some real problems.

Even if he is apologetic I hope it's not an insight into his real potential.

[Moses]

wow glad you got through your night bogfrog,

i can only relate to your tale in that i also have the skills and anger your friend has and perhaps you are kinda correct in that it was not a test but a cry for help , your friend is not only embarrassed but scared of his feelings (i know i have been)

while i've never threatened those close to me i tend not to socialise outside my comfort zone.

[qualia]

This person is also extremely fit, trained in combat, and very capable of taking us all out if they decided to.

what does this mean? that he's ex-military or more sport/rec martial arts type thing?

if it's the former theres probably some serious shit going on that probably talking with a person trained in that sort of thing would be best. still it's hard to say with the scant details you gave. at any rate he's probably highly embarrassed and ashamed at the moment so i suggest to ease any feelings of persecution you acknowledge the incident at least in a non-confrontational/judgemental way and let him know you don't necessarily feel bad about him what want him to get help.

[Halcyon Daze]

So hypothetically, what consciousness expanding tools would you recommend taking extra caution with (in general)?

[ballzac]

I'm sure a lot of people would disagree, but I feel mescaline might be more capable of encouraging a person to express their anger than would tryptamines. Though if someone flips out, I doubt it has much to do with the particular chemical, unless it's alcohol.

[dionysus]

http://www.luminist.org/archives/session.htm

i think this is a good old pamphlet outlining some good measures to take when undergoing a psychedelic session. worth a read, even if a bit old.

note: i don't condone the use of illegal substances, advice for harm reduction purposes

[bogfrog]

Trained in hand to hand combat and brazillian jujitzu.

There was a strange vibe to him before hand, but people are always somewhat strange in those sorts of situations. Came out later that him and his girl had been fighting the night before, but he hid his mood and intentions well into the night until we had all got drunk and then dropped.

And yeah he was drunk too.

The most concerning part is how very intelligent and civilised he usually is, and that he was literally the last person anyone expected to behave like that.

In fact im starting to think it was because we all thought so highly of him that he became incapable of expressing weakness and problems and this

was his only way of showing us that he is only human and needs genuiene help.

Its certainly a bit of a game changer when you relise someone you trust has the potential to harm themselves and their friends, but we will continue to offer him unconditional love and support.

Thanks for your responses.

[ballzac]

And yeah he was drunk too.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say that other drugs won't play a part. Psychedelics can definitely mess with your emotions and intensify problems, but my guess is that, without alcohol, this wouldn't have happened.

[bogfrog]

Yeah I believe that both had a strong influence on the situation and there was also some powerful group-mind sort of phenomena going on. Maybe he saw something in his girls' head that tipped the balance for him.

I cant tell for sure what the full story was and he does not remember the event very well himself but it was certainly the most intense experience I have had in life so far and really changed my attitude towards such casual use of powerful substances.

[dionysus]

there was also some powerful group-mind sort of phenomena going on. Maybe he saw something in his girls' head that tipped the balance for him.

 

playing the 'mind reader' game

[solomon]

Wow, never expected this from who I am 99% sure you are speaking about.

Reminds me of something I read on the nook about someone who was experienced with psychedelics snapping and having a psychotic break ending up in trouble with the police and lashing out at them.

Sounds like this didn't end up as badly, I hope him and her are both alright now. Glad to hear you and others involved are too. Sounds like you guys did the best possible in this, I'm sure you all would have known if it was neccesarry to involve psych services.

I haven't hung out with those two much but it was sounding like they were both pushing each other to explore further and learn more, same with what he's studying at Uni I imagine.

And he's a pretty deep cat to begin with.

Controlling his fire and knowing when to use his martial arts is even more impressive than knowing the techniques.

Psychedelics make emotions and awareness of these emotions/vibes x1000000 right, and alcohol lowers inhibitions and can make a very crude side come out in most people.. At least I know it's that way for me.

Talking and time helps with most things, also not treating someone like they are dangerous/crazy would help I imagine.

I really don't know him well enough to comment any further. Hope you can all take this on in a postive way.

So glad that this didn't end up a horror story.

edit: oh yeah, the mind reading can be a freaky thing, careful what you let slip out or in.

Anyway, enough from me, I'm starting to get confused

(i know you probably know what I wrote above, bogfrog, just for others reading. If you think anythings to personal in there let me know and I will edit)

Edited April 9, 2012 by centipede

[bogfrog]

Thanks bro, im extremely greatful that we all got through mostly unscathed, poor wee G got booted like a soccer ball while sitting cross legged on the ground.

Shit got pretty fucked up ae.

I hope he learnt a big lesson from this and we can all move forward in a positive direction.

I believe lives were really hanging in the balance that night but if anything its probably better that the issue came out to be dealt with now than bottled up for weeks/months/years later.

[Zen Peddler]

I find that biting the person or eggin them on resolves the situation satisfactorily.

[bogfrog]

I dnt even knw what the fuck to say to that comment.

[∂an]

Unfortunately, I think most people in this community have probably experienced something similar to this. Psychedelics in social situations can be fun, but in the end is probably not the best way to use them or the best way to have fun. It is interesting that some (plant based) psychedelics are ameniable to social situations (ie mushrooms and cactus extract) while others such as ayahuasca are contraindicated due to MAOI interactions with other substances and purging etc. Does the fact that one can eat mushrooms and drink beer at the same time detract from their spiritual value? People seem to think of mushrooms as a bit 'silly', but when it comes to ayahuasca its viewed as a totally serious spiritual enterprise. I think this has a lot to do with the conscious intent one has to put into taking aya, whereas with the others you have more freedom of activity. Putting more conscious intent into all psychedelic usage is something we all should be doing.

[ThunderIdeal]

i don't find acid or tryptamines the slightest bit silly or compatible with alcohol although many do, that's just my 0.2 pesos.

it is presumptuous to outright blame the alcohol, i have known people to lash out completely unprovoked on acid. i also had a dream where i smoked salvia and came uncharacteristically close to lashing out. how does one normally respond to a slight? they ignore it or respond in kind, or think "i'll remember this, asshole". what if your headspace at the time precludes those reactions? you are more likely to react in a primal way.

be careful folks.

better not to do these things when there is too much bad energy present, or around people who whose behaviour will upset you.

Edited April 14, 2012 by ThunderIdeal

[bogfrog]

Mm he was definately fuelling his power from a very dark place, yet sadly we weren't clever enough to pick up on this until it was too late.

He then took all the energy we collectively had and power tripped off that for a good 8hours, turning us all into terrified, powerless wrecks. I still feel as though he is drawing energy from us, even now a week later, to cope with the way he reacted and shame he visibly feels.

I can only be thankful though for the important lessons.

[whitewind]

I can only be thankful though for the important lessons.

 

Thyanks for posting this Bogfrog it sounds like you've been to hell and back. Many of us have been in bad situations, they happen so infrequently though I think we tend to be unprepared for when it does happen. One of my first experiences was really traumatic, and it was worse when there seemed to be so many people around who couldn't empathize and some of the advice I was given was appalling, really. That's one of the good things about experienced practitioners taking sessions in an spiritual environment which is conducive to resolving these things in a calm, caring manner.

[2Deep2Handle]

i can tell you right now if his head wasn't in a good space regarding his girlfriend and alcohol was involved in moderate-high doses, the night was already stage set for disaster ending..introducing phycs into the equation as well was a little silly. You need to confront him and ask him very politely and non-judgmentally, why he chose to drink and drop instead of talking about his problems, or just remaining silent and not taking them knowing how he was already feeling. If he is as intelligent as you say, he answer will quickly help clarify the situation.

EDIT: I myself have also lost it before, on my 20th birthday party in front of my parents and all those i hold dear. Thankfully most were able to forgive me for my fuckup, and i learnt several VERY big lessons that night.

Like you said he is only human, and if you support him, but make sure he is aware of his mistakes, then he should only grow?

Edited April 15, 2012 by 2Deep2Handle