Torsten

How to get busted without doing anything wrong.

22 posts in this topic

this just blows my mind away.

it is clearly in black and white what these institutions do that is a criminal nature in itself in order to stop a crime being committed.

in other words they ( the police ) commit crimes ten times worse to pick on some poor sod with a lil harmless RC that iwas LEGAL at the item of importing and LEGAL to possess , and yet they play the waiting game to catch there prey.

this is so wrong on so many levels.

big thumbs up to your torsten and your friend , i take my hats off to you both :)

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I should probably mention that this little issue cost my friend about 10K in solicitor fees. This is actually a very small amount because the solicitor [as a favour to me] did not charge him for the time spent travelling. That would have added another 5K.

It is obviously money well spent because the alternative would have been to potentially get a lengthy jail sentence. Not that my friend has that sort of money - it's about a third of his annual income. So you can't say that my friend got away with it because essentially he was 'fined' 10-15K as the situation forced him to spend this money. I am seeing a strong trend where the police uses the legal system as the penalty itself - comprising of the anxiety, wasted time, and wasted money.

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I wrote a sign for my door that stated "Dear NSW Police. Please don't break down the door, we have cookies and coffee waiting for you".

Lol. Epic story worth waiting for T. Fucking scary at the same time too.

Clever of your friend to make it disappear.

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that is so dirty, i just read qualias thread about policing trends in illinois the other day and thought about how fucked up that is, and this has many similarities and it's happening in aus... and then you have prohibitionists with the nerve to say why ending the WOD is such a disastrous thing... it is so disgusting

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Thanks for the story interesting stuff.

"I should probably mention that this little issue cost my friend about 10K in solicitor fees. This is actually a very small amount because the solicitor [as a favour to me] did not charge him for the time spent travelling. That would have added another 5K.

It is obviously money well spent because the alternative would have been to potentially get a lengthy jail sentence. Not that my friend has that sort of money - it's about a third of his annual income. So you can't say that my friend got away with it because essentially he was 'fined' 10-15K as the situation forced him to spend this money. I am seeing a strong trend where the police uses the legal system as the penalty itself - comprising of the anxiety, wasted time, and wasted money."

I do'nt get this :scratchhead: , he was importing multiple kilos of drugs worth potentialy millions of dollars per kg & was'nt making money :scratchhead: perhaps he should have made a little risk money in retrospect.

"I am seeing a strong trend where the police uses the legal system as the penalty itself"

This has always been the case- justice is for those who can afford it.

Did the police have evidence linking him to the ordering or payment of the product?

Did the police have evidence that he had done multiple orders of the same product?

What other/if any evidence did they have beside the CCTV?

Edited by shruman

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RESPECT to you Mr TW! May the Most High bless you in your work -and make you invisible to your enemies!

(- I thought things like that only happen to me!) Long have us up here considered you HERO - and now you are LEGEND to!

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What other/if any evidence did they have beside the CCTV?

I would have thought, naive as I am, that this alone would not be enough to cause problems. Can you explain why he wasn't best off simply exercising his right to remain silent? Surely it would be hard to make a possession charge stick if they can't even locate the product.

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Edit: retracted my comment. Don't know the exact circumstances so shouldn't be jumping to conclusions.

Edited by Pseudo Mexican
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That's definately a tale to tell. wow

Oh and Torsten, great forum you have going here! Thankyou for having me..

RF

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"I would have thought, naive as I am, that this alone would not be enough to cause problems. Can you explain why he wasn't best off simply exercising his right to remain silent? Surely it would be hard to make a possession charge stick if they can't even locate the product."

From Torstens post:

"but for possession they need to prove intent and knowledge, neither of which would have stuck from a simple pick up CCTV video at the post office. That's why they needed to catch him the next day with the drugs still in his possession. After midnight they can add a new charge for every day that they can prove possession. So essentially my friend was set up."

It would be enough to lay charges but hard to prove in court but they know the longer the charges stick the more expensive it becomes to defend which is I guess why the bloke was looking to cooperate.

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From Torstens post:

Haha, thanks Shruman. I should learn to read properly :blush:

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You could make a nice little B-Movie out of that story. It has all a good plot needs. Theres some Twists and Turns, cookies and a happy Ending. But thats the type of stuff you can only have once in like every 10-20 years. More is just not good for your blood pressure.

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shruman, the charge was not about importing, so it didn't matter whether he ordered it etc. The CCTV is enough to charge even though solicitor said it could be challenged on the basis of interruption of chain of evidence. Without the parcel the charges would have probably not led to a conviction, however you never know. Get a drug crusading judge on a bad day and your life is fucked or at least you have to shell out another 25K for an appeal. Even a slap on the wrist type sentence would not have been acceptable in this case, because it is still a conviction that would interfere with career and travel.

As for making money off the imports, if you are importing a LEGAL powder that costs just $3000/kg and you sell it off by the kilo, then you are not going to make much more than double. That's just the way the industry works. Subtract the 30% losses to customs and the bottom line suddenly is quite a meagre income.

My friend was also far from cooperative. Once it was obvious that they were going to nail him he politely refused to comment. It's a simple lesson everyone should learn. Even the couple of things he said before he reached that decision ended up being not in his favour and could have hurt him in court. But you know, everyone needs to decide themselves when the best time is to shut up. My policy is simple: If they come knocking at my door then they are obviously not my friends, so I don't say anything without a lawyer. But not everyone is that disciplined as the cops have their ways of getting 'harmless' comments out of you.

Evil Genius - it seems the last 20 years of my life are one long series of B-movies ;) I thought I put all that stress behind me years ago and now lead a quiet life tending plants and filing paperwork, but then the f*ckers drag me into shit like that for no reason. Good thing I don't get blood pressure problems, but my anxiety went through the roof for a couple of weeks there.

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"shruman, the charge was not about importing, so it didn't matter whether he ordered it etc. The CCTV is enough to charge even though solicitor said it could be challenged on the basis of interruption of chain of evidence. Without the parcel the charges would have probably not led to a conviction, however you never know. Get a drug crusading judge on a bad day and your life is fucked or at least you have to shell out another 25K for an appeal. Even a slap on the wrist type sentence would not have been acceptable in this case, because it is still a conviction that would interfere with career and travel."

I understand this & thought I made it clear in above comments but I was just wondering if they had more evidence to tie him to how he came to be in possession & if they did have this evidence surely it would be another piece in the puzzle to proving the intent/knowledge needed for posession?

I think I get what you sayin though, they would have charged him without that evidence?

"As for making money off the imports, if you are importing a LEGAL powder that costs just $3000/kg and you sell it off by the kilo, then you are not going to make much more than double. That's just the way the industry works. Subtract the 30% losses to customs and the bottom line suddenly is quite a meagre income."

Thats just fuckin crazy... why would anyone do it? surely the risks far outweigh the rewards here? there are all kinds of risk involved. Can you imagine if the supplier sent a scheduled chem instead?, not exactly an uncommon practice in the RC scene.

Makes heroin or Coke smuggling seem smart.

I did'nt mean to give the impression your friend was looking to cooperate from the onset I think you made that clear.

Edited by shruman

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I thought I put all that stress behind me years ago and now lead a quiet life tending plants and filing paperwork, but then the f*ckers drag me into shit like that for no reason.

He he, that reminded me of this memorable quote from one of my favorites:

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I was just wondering if they had more evidence to tie him to how he came to be in possession & if they did have this evidence surely it would be another piece in the puzzle to proving the intent/knowledge needed for posession?

It seems they didn't really care about that too much. They seized computers, phones, etc, but made no particular attempt to prove that he actually ordered it. They just wanted to catch him holding the parcel.

I think I get what you sayin though, they would have charged him without that evidence?

They indeed did.

Thats just fuckin crazy... why would anyone do it? surely the risks far outweigh the rewards here? there are all kinds of risk involved. Can you imagine if the supplier sent a scheduled chem instead?, not exactly an uncommon practice in the RC scene.

I import all sorts of phyto chemicals every week and some of them could become scheduled at some point. That doesn't make the trading price any better though. A legal substance simply doesn't have the sort of mark up that an illegal one has. My friend was doing the same thing. He had been importing this for a long time and wasn't taking any risks and had no intention of breaking any laws.

As for risks, you are perfectly correct that the overseas suppliers send all sorts of stuff that is contaminated or misidentified. My friend uses the same lab that I use to get everything identified before we import. I need such certificates for reselling to the health industry anyway, so he figured he might as well apply the same principles to his products. These are independent lab reports, not reports from the supplier [which are almost always forged].

Without these procedures the risk would be phenomenal. I had to buy 5 compounds outside of my trusted supplier circle last year - of these 2 were not at all what they were supposed to be [one was an analog of a scheduled drug in australia], 2 were of less than 80% purity despite being supplier certified at 98%, and one was a pure scheduled drug. These were all from the manufacturers directly, so they definitely knew what they were sending.

I would NEVER import anything without getting it analysed first and I never buy anything of any australian supplier that was imported.

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Thanks Torsten,

interesting reading :)

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Jesus, thank christ my am2201 importing days are over, every item inspected by customs, and released to me.

nothing as bulk as 1kg however, never more than 20 grams.

damn insane that read :(

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Wow .... All I can say is anxiety levels would have been through the roof ... hand me a xanax :)

Thumbs up Torsten stick it to them. Just goes to show my view on the greedy bastards is spot on. Never trust em, keep your mouth shut and call a lawyer and phone a very good friend hey torsten whats your number :worship:

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wow seems like entrapment to me to, interesting to find its not.

great read, thanks for the share.

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ahhhhhhhhhhh all too familiar . DAmned if you do and damned if ya dont . 458 days signing in for bail and counting ...35 yr max sentence import border controlled 307.3.1 .......

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