OMG

[Flash]

With so many religions, philosophies and belief systems available, many in contradiction to one another in some form, which is most right or are all equally right just deluded a little?

Some believe a babe to be an un-carved block, others say it is exposed to pre-disposition hence influencing its path or way, some have beliefs imposed onto them…is not belief a matter of choice?

Teachings of old or ancient beliefs are subject to the interpretation of the teacher due to the luxury of individuality, unfortunately this may obscure the original teachings (Chinese whispers, in theory).

Pre-disposition aside, would not the young offspring of five separate belief systems play happily until a basic necessity like food was introduced? Hence a pecking order may arise like in the way of nature itself, does a flower resent the tree for taking a greater share of sun? Would the tree make room for the flower if shaded? Or simply co-exist.

Would not the adults of these differing beliefs commune more happily before vast knowledge is introduced?

Although being a Westerner, I am Taoist in nature and belief, thus believing the ways of nature as the true way, though I can be no more incorrect or correct than any other belief system or religion.

Insurance companies have “acts of God” clauses- should not these be acts of nature?

Would your God really punish me for not conforming to a different belief ? “Sorry Flash, you got it all wrong. Please follow the stairs on the left down to the basement.” lol

Let’s say there really is a God - is he/she/it prejudice against other Gods or is there is one God with different teachings for different folks?

[apothecary]

There is a quote from the Bible, however my head is still spinning from smogs housewarming so I'm just gonna give you the gist of it.

Basically, in heaven, some people come unto God and say look at all the mad shit I built in your name, look at the land I conquered and all this stuff that people do, and God says get thee behind me motherfucker, I know ye not!

Voltaire has a similar scenario in his Philosophical Dictionary. For examples purpose, he creates a heaven that is basically in the clouds, with sluice-gates underneath for raining on earth.

All these kings come to God and say yo look at the riches I amassed, look at the churches I built, priests come up and say look at the tithes I procured, the people I converted and many other types of people come and claim all sorts of whack shit.

God says yo bitches, your shit ain't fly, I care not for your hoe-ass jewellery or your unpimped churches! And he opens the sluice gates and they fall to wherever it is souls fall when they get rejected by Tom West.

Then a farmer rocks up at the gates of the pimpinest afterlife there is, and says I did not believe in God, or disbelieve in him, but I tried to be a good husband, father and neighbour. I tilled my fields and fed my children.

And God says yo homie Peter let the G in we gon' smoke a blunt with this gangsta!

What you're saying is hardly new (considering God mentioned it a while ago), but definitely apt in my opinion.

[ 10. July 2005, 03:17: Message edited by: apothecary ]

[Flash]

Thanks Apoth- Even though i dont speak fluent homie you're message seems clear,or maybe I'z jus gangsta trippin

[Rev]

I like your story Apoth

[Benzito]

Yeah, that farmer was straight wil'in out, with dubs on his tractor, that spin when it's stopped. He was super fly, that's why god knows that he straight represents, no frontin', keep it on the grind 24/7, mackin bitches.

[nabraxas]

Jeez--you guys have a rosy tinted view ov God.

try reading the old testament.

before god lets the israelites into the promised land he warns them

"you must totally kill every motherfucker that lives in this land at the moment, spare even 1 & they shall be like a thorn in your side for all time"---god was worried that despite him saving the israerlite from pharoe, feeding them in the desert, burning up a few score for a triviality etc. etc. that foreigners w/different gods would lead them astray (& they did)

at one point the israelites conquer a town, but keep the women & children for slaves.

god gets very annoyed

"kill all the women, & the male children, but you may keep the female children for slaves"

the OT God is a bastard.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me, for the lord your god IS A JEALOUS GOD "

why do you think xtian missionaries are so zealous?

because they honestly believe that hindus buddhists, toaists, jews, muslims---in fact anyone who doesn't bow down & worship their jealous god is doomed---& they are just following what it says in their bibles.

[ 12. July 2005, 22:35: Message edited by: nabraxas ]

[apothecary]

nab, I have read the OT. And the NT.

My story has nothing to do with my view of God.

[nabraxas]

Apoth---hey i wasn't having a go. just disagreeing that the biblical God forgives those who don't worship him.

so what is your view ov the biblical God, based on the scriptures you've read?

[ 13. July 2005, 23:20: Message edited by: nabraxas ]

[Leo^]

Ok my veiws are pretty extreme and different but I think Jesus made it clear to his followers that being a 'christian' doesnt mean anything, its following Jesus teachings, which is love above all, helping humanity etc. My beleifs would also conclude that 'heaven' whatever and where-ever it may be, will be full of people who werent christians, but followed the teachings, even if they didnt know they did. This includes outspoken athiests and ppl from all religions, especially shaman, as they make a life work out of helping others and desiring good knowledge

[Rev]

I dont think your views are extreme or different. thats my gist on it too

cept i dont think there is heaven to be reached - just peace and wholesome satisfaction with yourself or the alternative of the failure of not achieving this

if there is an eternal bliss then its the etrenity in a moment as we die and relive our lives before we fade out like some old TV set

as for the OT

fuckin burn it

when you get a corrupted computer file what do you do? keep it and use it as if it were correct or discard it and get a new copy?

and if the whole format kept on corrupting your data periodicaly wouldnt you just ditch the computer entirely

u just cant trust any books on religious matters

theres something deeply incompatible about eternal truths being kept in transferrable corruptile mediums

our hearts and minds are alos corruptible but not transferable - each has their own to build

[ 23. July 2005, 16:26: Message edited by: Rev ]

[caludia]

i'm not a fan of middle eastern monotheism in its most notable forms, so i am biased as hell on this topic, to be honest

there used to be a few gnostic Christian sects (in fact there still are, today) who believe that (and forgive me if i get this wrong):

- The OT god, the jealous, violent YHWH, is the Devil or Adversary

- The NT reform, with god as Jesus, is the REAL god, who comes to rip apart the foundations of the jewish Torah

i.e. Lucifer is Jesus, u get the idea. (even though the legend of Lucifer being ejected from YHWH's presence is not in the OT to my knowledge, except perhaps in vague poetic references which could mean anything ... like most of this bronze age compilation)

(and even though according to at least one of the "gospels", jesus has not come to change "one iota" of OT scripture!)

there is a short story by Harlan Ellison, think it's called Deathbird of something, which sort of re-hashes this view.

basically this conundrum - how to reconcile the OT god of racist vengeance with the NT god of love and forgiveness (and HELLFIRE, it must be said) - is as old as xtianity itself

today's "messianic christians", the "christian zionists", are the epitomy, IMO, of this conflicted view of god... not knowing WHAT to believe, cos it all contradricts itself anyway (but to them, it's all divinely inspired word-for-word true)

[caludia]

and by the f*&*ing way one more thing...

i think the Muslim and Christian conceptions of a "Hell" is the single most evil metaphysical conception ever foisted upon mankind.

the idea of infinite punishment for finite crimes is diabolical.

So when i hear some vicious imam or reverend preaching the "consequences" of non-belief, i tune out. And i take my valium

[Leo^]

The idea of hell as a place was never really thought about untill recently. A lot of early church fathers took it as meaning ppl will go thru a purging before they join with God, kinda like an afterlife version of the sundance or the aboriginal rituals for manhood. Knowing God personally in my own way, I really dont think hes sending anyone anywhere like fundies describe. If so Id be the first to go but he understands why we do things, and Id have to say most "bad/sinfull" events in my life were either simple mistakes or happened from trying to do the loving thing for someone else (if this makes no sense it may be the N+s playing with my keyboard)

[nabraxas]

The NT reform, with god as Jesus, is the REAL god, who comes to rip apart the foundations of the jewish Torah ---that's the point---did jesus replace the law or fulfill it.

 

quote:

---

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: "

'Love the Lord your God

with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[a] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

 

---

quote:

---

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil

---

[woof woof woof]

the house of the lord has many rooms

[nabraxas]

Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge .

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]

Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him .

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved .

[mescalito]

These are all just words,God lives in the heart.Follow the path with heart and heaven is already yours.

I kinda like the Oracles' explanation to Neo too, saying that you are not here to make the decision, it has already been made.You are here to understand why you made the decision.

To me this pretty well explains why change is sometimes futile, sometimes inevitable and our reaction to change being merely the ego's belief that it exists on it's own....nothing to do with going to church and asking to be saved IMHO

[Leo^]

As a christian I will say going to church these days is very overrated, its never really done anything for me, altho at one church I did meet some very interesting shamen ( yes some forms of christianity has its shamen too altho they dont use plants as help )