Thoughts on religion

[Legba]

religion is a direction to the way we should be, not a direction to look. we just can't seem to agree as to how to interpret the instructions. we can't even agree which way to look.

[reptyle]

twix i think you may have missed the point of buddha example. maybe he was saying you are capable of helping yourself, so save yourself and dont rely on the higher power. not that it doesnt exist or that you shoudnt think about it.

[Auxin]

Prophet:

PS: i gave up caring what people think a long time ago so if you think making a mockery of my beliefs is going to make me change then think again.

Your right in thinking folks get a bit... rough on christians, particularly ones of the fundamentalist type. Its far to easy to be distracted by surface differences in religions and start saying 'my religion is better cause it has this and doesnt have that'. I cant count how many times I've heard folks talk down to mormons for the polygamist part of their history or to jahovas withesses for not accepting blood transfusions. These are just the 'skin' of religions.

Prophet, you and I are quite different religions- but at the core both teach compassion, loving kindness, forgiveness, and many other things. Its the same for others here.

I ask that before anyone severely critisises or tries to convert anyone else you first look past the surface attributes of the two religions and see the underlying philosophical core that can unify them... do that and the critisism you were gonna make softens or evaporates as may the desire to convert them.

I dont beleive in god, I'll likely never beleive in god, but I think Prophets devotion to his religion is wonderful if he keeps with the core philosophical principles.

So... to Prophet, good work man- keep to the teachings of Jesus if you like- hes a smart dude that taught good stuff.

To everyone (even me), try to be accepting and look for the core unifying principles that make different religions compatable- looking purely at the surface only promotes ill will and conflict.

[Prophet]

I don't criticise people's beliefs or non-beliefs because I was a non-believer once and went through a few different "phases" before I came to where i am now.

 

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Prophet, you and I are quite different religions- but at the core both teach compassion, loving kindness, forgiveness, and many other things. Its the same for others here.

 

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Jesus taught to love your enemies and those that hate you so i don't hold any animosity towards anyone even if they do criticise my views. He taught to love all and to love you neighbour as yourself.

 

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Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

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If everyone obeyed His teachings I believe this world would be a better place... We all need to learn to love one another.

peace

[nabraxas]

i haven't read the whole lot yet, but i have to chip in here

Flip-

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I don't think that "science" can become a religion?

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never heard ov scientology then?

Also, Flip i know you are trying to be clear, but if you think the words you are using require a dictionary link to explain them, then you should use words that you know will be understood, at least that's what my mum told me.

Sorry geezer, i don't want to piss you off, but clicking on links that just go to a dictionary is starting to annoy me.

[nabraxas]

 

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imo, It is best to have the ability to view any issue from multiple points of perceptive.

 

Hence one of the reasons why a University education is so important.

 

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---& that's really annoying---some ov the dumbest sheep i've ever met + many ov the Liberal party have University educations.

i do get what you mean, but i've had to put up w/that kind ov "degree = intelligent, everyone else should listen to us" bullshit for years.

"multiple points of perspective"? in a university?

you'd find a far more diverse range ov beliefs & opinions in your average factory.

as an example some college professor here came out & said that torture ov terror suspects was a legitimate practice---OH HOW THE STUDENTS CRIED FOUL

[ 01. June 2005, 01:16: Message edited by: nabraxas ]

[monkeyZ]

i've often thought, if all in the bible is true, then why do those who should fear loss of God's favor the most (such as priests, christian brothers etc) always seem to have a high proportion of the worst type of sinner (child abuse etc)?

but then it occurs to me, if God is real, and Satan is real, then perhaps it makes sense, because the people serving God would be also the most likely to be targetted by Satan. And innocent children would surely be his weapon of choice for maximum destruction of lives and faith.

[nabraxas]

monkeyz---i kind ov liked your posts but that last one.........

it aint Satan trying to tempt priests off their sanctified path by pushing young boys as sex objects---it's their own supressing ov the sexual act that results in such perversions--& that is only logical--any supression ov a natural (god given ?) act results in peversion ov that act.

"i'm not allowed to have sex w/a lady, 'cus Eve caused man to fall, & therefore ALL women are intrinsically evil; but by having sex w/an innocent young boy i'm pure ov the sin ov lust, cus men only lust after ladies--that's what my bible says anyway.

[monkeyZ]

i should add, i am a definate athiest. well, i believe in spirituality - but not a devine spirit

so i'm not saying that i believe that satan hunts for the souls of priests... but i have always had an interest in religion - or moreso the motivations (and contadictions) of people who follow a religion. perhaps born out of having close family that are born-again. being forced to sit through a sunday sermon several times will make anyone ask "why would anyone want to do this? voluntarily?"

and that kind of contemplation does seem interesting to me. is the soul of someone who already has no faith really as valuable as one of god's own? people who are born-again believe that they were lost, and God intervened directly to save them, usually when they were most in need, or most lost. would it then be wrong to then believe that satan would do likewise, and attempt to intervene in a similar way to gain control of those that are closest to god?

my own personal opinion is that there was a time in australia when pedophiles basically built there own little community within the church, kind of like parasites finding a host. but sometimes it's more interesting to keep an open mind - and more relavent to this thread.

[Prophet]

Monkeyz there are alot of priests out there who are influenced by satan. This is one reason why I tend not to attend church. How can someone who is living in a life of sin preach against sin? if the blind lead the blind they both fall into a pit. Satan has a big influence in the modern christian church and unfortunately there is alot of hypocracy. A lot of priests are in it for the money i think, they don't take their religion seriously.

If they were truly born again believers then they would not be committing such sins. No good tree can produce bad fruit nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. By their fruits ye shall know them.

 

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and that kind of contemplation does seem interesting to me. is the soul of someone who already has no faith really as valuable as one of god's own?

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actually God places alot of value on souls who are lost and do not have faith..

 

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Luk 15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

 

Luk 15:4 What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

 

Luk 15:5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

 

Luk 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbors, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

 

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

 

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peace

[Legba]

perhaps if the celebite priests knew how to convert the energies produced into enlightenment like those who understood the book they wouldn't go off the rails with jackson fodder syndrome.

if i picked up a chemestry book and started following some of the 'rituals' without understandings beyond the books content...boom.

[monkeyZ]

Prophet:

If they were truly born again believers then they would not be committing such sins. No good tree can produce bad fruit nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.  By their fruits ye shall know them.

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i assume you have the horticultural evidence to support this?

 

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and that kind of contemplation does seem interesting to me. is the soul of someone who already has no faith really as valuable as one of god's own?

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actually God places alot of value on souls who are lost and do not have faith..

i was more so referring to the value of God's people in the Devil's eyes perhaps being higher than that of lowly sinners (that are probably heading his way anyway).

[Prophet]

Bacchant, no-where in the scriptures does it say priests are not allowed to marry. That is a roman catholic tradition which is unscriptural, thus proving my point that modern churches are influenced by satan in a big way.

 

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1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

 

1Ti 4:3

Forbidding to marry

, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

 

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MonkeyZ, satan has no power over the true born again children of God.

[Anodyne]

The problem isn't with the religions, it's with the people.

People take from their religion what they like, and ignore the rest. If a catholic priest thinks that the Bible's love your brother/fellow man message is negated by the bit saying "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination", then he feels he is justified in his rejection of gays from his church.

This is my problem with Christianity specifically - the Bible contains so much about how people should live, written by so many people, that it is full of contradictions. This is recognised by Christians themselves, who are split into many sects, each with different emphasis on different parts of the Bible (although I know that people's choice of sect probably often has more to do with social/cultural factors), whether it be giving the New Testament greater priority than the Old, or taking more notice of the Ten Commandments than the rest of Leviticus's advice.

While there's a lot of sensible practical advice about living a good life and getting along with the people around you, I think that a lot of Christians put too much emphasis on the nasty bits about guilt and oppression and vengeance and so on. The sexist crap makes for fun reading too:

 

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Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in pain thou shalt bring forth children; yet thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

 

- Genesis 3:16

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Doesn't seem like the best way to start a good and just world, does it? But I suppose it helps to ease in the suggestion that women should cover their heads so as not to offend the Lord with their inferiority (it's in Corinthians somewhere, and it's a lot more emphatic than the Koran about it).

This isn't to say that other religions don't have these problems and contradictions, I'm just most familiar with Christianity.

OK, rant over - someone else's turn.

[Hagakure]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_sat2.htm

evolution of satan

[Prophet]

 

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The problem isn't with the religions, it's with the people.

 

People take from their religion what they like, and ignore the rest

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that is exactly right, and they often add to the scriptures as well as can be seen in most churches today with some of the stupid traditions and teachings they have. Such as the catholic churches' teaching of original sin that we are all born with sin which we inherited from adam. There is no scriptural basis for this teaching. We are not born with sin, we are born with a sinful nature which is why we need to be born again (in the Spirit).

 

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Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

 

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as far as homosexuality is concerned i do believe it an abominable practice from a scriptural perspective but I don't hate homosexuals, i just think they need help. Jesus did not come into the world to condemn people he came to save people..

 

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Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

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This is my problem with Christianity specifically - the Bible contains so much about how people should live, written by so many people, that it is full of contradictions

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it isn't full of contradictions if you read it for yourself and understand it. It is only contradictory when people twist it to suit themselves.

 

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The sexist crap makes for fun reading too:

 

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Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in pain thou shalt bring forth children; yet thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

 

- Genesis 3:16

 

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I am guessing you are a woman? women always try and say the bible is sexest you will find this isn't the case. The woman is to be respected.

 

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1Pe 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

 

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The bible does teach that women are not to have a position of authority over the man and that the woman is to be in subjection to her husband as the church is to Christ and that women are not allowed to teach. I'm guessing you have been a part of a church before?

[ 02. June 2005, 07:28: Message edited by: Prophet ]

[monkeyZ]

 

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as far as homosexuality is concerned i do believe it an abominable practice from a scriptural perspective but I don't hate homosexuals, i just think they need help. Jesus did not come into the world to condemn people he came to save people..

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i like homosexuals. apparently all the good men are gay. there should be more of that. if all the good men are taken, then the lady's will just have to settle for me :D

 

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Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in pain thou shalt bring forth children; yet thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

 

- Genesis 3:16

 

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anyone mind if i make that my new sig!!?

but seriously, prophet you don't see a slight contradiction is saying that the bible isn't sexist, but does say women aren't equal? why not just say "hey, it's sexist, but i think it's right"?

final words;

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Peter Kay:

"When i was a kid, every night i prayed to God for a new bike. Then i realised he doesn't work that way, so i stole the bike and prayed for him to forgive me"

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[Prophet]

MonkeyZ, what if the ladies turn into lesbians as a response to the men becoming gay? the guys will become like girls and the girls will become like guys scary thought that. Gender destinction is not well defined these days.

[Legba]

I've often wondered where lesbians cum from

[puffingfish]

Prophet man, you really need to have a look at what your saying! You say that the bible is not sexist and then you include a quote which describes women as the weaker vessel - WTF is that?

I also think your pretty brave saying that you don't hate homosexuals but you think they need help - LOL - who are you to say who needs help and who doesn't? This is the very problem, everyone going around saying who needs help and who doesn't before they have even had a good long look at themselves. It's also totally irrelevant - why do you even have an opinion about this? Have you even considered what it's like for someone to be told they need help? If you refelct on this for a split second you mught gain some insight into what so many people find so irritating and demeaning about the bible and the curch and people who go around telling everyone else how they should exist and what's wrong with them. People need to find there own srength and 'godliness' through inner reflection of their own true nature which is good and kind -not from the space of feeling imperfect.

Furthermore, I don't even know where to start with a comment like..

>MonkeyZ, what if the ladies turn into lesbians as a response to the men becoming gay? the guys will become like girls and the girls will become like guys scary thought that. Gender destinction is not well defined these days.

And even if this were true, why would it be a problem Prohet?

Because the curch would have no means of social control anymore.

The space of fear and neurosis that your comment comes from is so typical of the mindset of your people it is scary.

Just lay off a bit with your judgements - they are not constructive or kind.

[Prophet]

puffingfish I wasn't directing my comments at anyone in particular, nor was i meaning to target homosexuals in particular, I was just expressing my viewpoint on the issue. If someone wants to be gay that is up to them if they think it is the right thing to do but I cannot deny the fact that it is an abomination in the sight of God. I was only expressing the biblical view. I know alot of people wont like the truth but that is too bad. And this has got nothing to do with the church. If I was to express my view about adultery, fornication or idolatry i'm sure alot of people wouldn't be happy about that either.

[ 03. June 2005, 10:08: Message edited by: Prophet ]

[apothecary]

You can't blame Prophet guys. He's just trying to be a good christian.

The thing is, nowadays, most christians don't read the Old Testament much, because it contradicts the New Testament so badly.

Prophet, without guidance from a priest or such, has read both (in an attempt to be a good christian).

All he has done is believe the contradictions that most contemporary christians don't dare touch.

[incognito]

maybee prophet has interpreted his own personal truth, without guidence,thinking for himself...

isnt that what its all about????

good on him i say....!!!!!

who really does know why where all here anyway???

keep it real prophet!!!!

[puffingfish]

Prophet

Number one - who said that you express the biblical view? Even though there is no longer copyright in the bible it doesn't mean that you can take its ideas and express them as your own.

Number two - Why do you think that it is your duty to let others know what the truth is? Your opinion, fine. Would love to hear it. Please don't dress it up as truth, it turns people off.

Number three- Why would your god be looking at homosexuals having sex anyway?

[Hagakure]

quick question

if people knowing about gods teachings have option of going to hell while people who have never heard of the teachings dont, isnt there an ethical issue to not tell anyone about gods teachings to protect them from eternal fire and what not?