Psylo Posted March 7, 2012 There is a tale that suggests that old peasant women used smooth wooden rods as transdermal applicators in order to rub psychoactive/dissociatives onto/into their vagina, which spawned the whole "flying broomstick" myth. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted March 7, 2012 Yep, I remember reading about this at the library when I was 13.. they actually had recipes for "flying ointment"! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TommyChesnutt Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Hey guys, completely missed this thread. I used datura (white strammonium) when i was 16, after reading about it on erowid, and was subsequently diagnosed with a thought disorder/speech impediment that took half a decade to slowly resolve itself to a point where i could function as before. Datura is not a fantasia drug, it is (/can be) a poison, that can quite literally take away everything you have - i have since met others who have experimented with datura, yet who were fortunate to walk away unscathed. One fellow even took twice the dose i did, which shocked me quite significantly. Anyhoo, basically, don't fuck with datura, unless you want to risk your life - or your sanity, which my quite real adolescent medical bill can attest to. For those curious, during my recovery years i dosed choline regularly, as i had trouble cognitively processing social situations/emotions/feelings (the choline helped produce acetylcholine i was told... also, consumed a lot of normal tea (caffeine = acetylcholine release) + sage tea, for the acetylcholinesterase-inhibiting properties, i think it really helped in hindsight...). If i had to describe it, It's like datura literally ripped a chunk out of my brain, but my temperature wasn't even that high, not enough for brain damage anyhow. As it stands now, i am in my early twenties, and still haven't completely recovered. I used to be one of those smart nerdy types, but ended up failing high school completely... would just sit there vacantly in maths class, not understanding anything... embarrassing. For those who know brisbane, the plant was growing next to the indooroopilly bridge. All i had to do was pick it while walking home, and wake up three days later a different person. It's through a miracle i have been able to work my way into university, and have built an academic foundation upon which i can be as competitive as the rest.. I truly love my ethnobotanicals these days, however just know people, that there is a real danger associated with these plants... be careful. And in the case of tropane plants, don't touch them at all. Because the reality is, there is just no way of knowing what it is going to do to you. Sorry if i completely just attention-whore-hijacked this thread, i just feel compelled to add my little story here... sort of want to make sure people don't go through what i did... anyhoo... BEAUTIFUL PLANTS THOUGH GUYS. Do your research. Don't kid yourself. (TEDZR said) - My friend said he experimented with brug for about 6 months, leading up to what essentially lapsed into a state of anxiety and minor depression. He told me that he had troubling and frustrating linguistic memory recall for about a year afterwards where he would simply be unable to find the words in his mind to describe quite simple things. My friend says that he expects the brugmansia to be a major factor in this otherwise disappointing chain of events. Can completely and utterly relate to this, you have no idea... however my own account was from a single large dose, and the resulting disability was, (at least i'm thinking,) much worse, and for much longer. It's like... you'd be staring at a tree, and someone would ask you to describe the tree, and although you can see it in your head... the words just... won't come out... or they come out very jumbled, and instead of 'tree', you say 'foot'... It really is like someone has removed a part of your brain... Like if you delete an important system file on your computer, and everything else screws up... kinda feels like that... ce la vi. Edited March 7, 2012 by hunnicutt 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EntheoAssassin Posted March 7, 2012 Thanks for the info. I've heard about 15 stories about Datura. 13 bad. 2 good. Those stats already put me right off it BUT if there is something that can be added to 'balance' the chemicals then it may be worthwhile finding it so people can atleast learn a better way to do it without doing major damage. There is a tale that suggests that old peasant women used smooth wooden rods as transdermal applicators in order to rub psychoactive/dissociatives onto/into their vagina, which spawned the whole "flying broomstick" myth. Is that sarcasm Psylo? I'm sure everyone can find this on their own but I will post this anyway from Wikipedia: a possible explanation for the inclusion of belladonna and opium poppy in flying ointments concerns the known antagonism between tropane alkaloids of belladonna (specifically scopolamine) and opiate alkaloids in the opium poppy, Papaver somniferum(specifically morphine), which produces a dream-like waking state. This antagonism was known in folk medicine, discussed in eclectic (botanical) medicine formularies,[40] and posited as the explanation of how flying ointments might have actually worked in contemporary writing on witchcraft.[41] The antagonism between opiates and tropanes is the original basis of the Twilight Sleep that was provided to Queen Victoria to deaden pain as well as consciousness during childbirth, and which was later modified so isolated alkaloids were used instead of plant materials. The belladonna herb was also notable for its unpredictable effects from toxicity.[42][43] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stillman Posted March 7, 2012 I know that area of Brisbane very well, they (Brugs/ datura) are everywhere in Brisbane, the trick is to admire them for there beauty and keep walking. Too Powerful stuff. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tedzr Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Great post hunnicut. Sounds like you had a rough time after that datura trip. The good thing about the brain is that it has extreme plasticity and neural pathways are often able to regenerate and rewire if given the chance. It's interesting that you reported the same style of symptoms as my uh friend. Anticholinergics are not to be fucked with. They mess with acetylcholine which regulates memory, so if you poison yourself with them it seems like you can induce some sort of brain disease in an otherwise young and healthy brain (non-scientific perspective). Your experience was a serious one yet I'm honestly glad to find out that someone else has had a similar problem. I think if you wanna do these drugs, then you'll do them. But you should assess what it actually is you are doing. If your not a shamans apprentice, then what's the point you know? The society of the West is not built for this. We often have no reference for this 'shamanism' but borrowed ones and I bet this leads plenty of people astray. If it's just drug use.. well.. be careful you don't ruin yourself accidentally because it's easy to do. I don't doubt there's some aussie shaman's doing good work though I've never actually met one. Edited March 13, 2012 by tedzr 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kapitän kamasutra Posted March 13, 2012 Is that sarcasm Psylo? Its indeed true people accused saied 'whitches' doing these practices. The medieval version of shock horror porn. There are many illustrations. I have heared of the use of datura with other plant in very very very low quantity ( in this case 1 seed Datura stramonium). it is used against sickness induced by saied other plants, and it make sence to me, I know there are plasters against motion sickness with scopolamin as active ingrediet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted March 13, 2012 Definately, some Brugmansias flowers have more or less psychoactive aroma. They smell from the dawn and on and during the night. A friend of mine has told me this is more apparent in combo with the all time classic : the green. No visuals, but a strange stimulation/intoxication/confusion[?]. This is some times so apparent and annoying, my friend picks the flowers of the yellow/orange brug off, so as to stop the effect, when smoking next to it. By it self, the effect is much milder. I have found out most 'accidents' with daturas happen when people are young. Very seldom will someone try these dangerous plants at an older age. If this is to happen, I am of the people who have said, "these plants are much better and much safer smoked" . Ingestion means asking for trouble, but some [very few] people report interesting reports, some of them at the verge of delirium breakthrough. This having been said, you can theoretically reach delirium by smoking too much, so it has a lot to do with what is it you think you want to do with this plant. IMO, Hyoscyamus in flower is the most intriguing of them all, if you except the cult plant Mandrake of course. Very tense and beautiful flower, it hardly gives off any smell , but I think Hyoscyamus is the best tropane material I have smoked and yeah its my favourite plant of the family. Actually a pleasant flavour, and said to be more definately sedative due to more hyoscyamine. Not that it doesn't get you fucked if you eat it. For the history, I have smoked Hyoscyamus [leaves], couple of Datura species [leaves] and, Belladonna [leaves]. If you know what you're doing, these plants work Problem is , very seldom do people know what they are doing when they take these plants - apparently they do them out of boredom or out of a naive seek for a cheap legal thrill. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whitewind Posted March 13, 2012 I think if you wanna do these drugs, then you'll do them. But you should assess what it actually is you are doing. If your not a shamans apprentice, then what's the point you know? The society of the West is not built for this. We often have no reference for this 'shamanism' but borrowed ones and I bet this leads plenty of people astray. If it's just drug use.. well.. be careful you don't ruin yourself accidentally because it's easy to do. When exploring new territory for the first time, there are guaranteed to be a few who get lost - especially those with less experience and who don't take great care in research, and monitoring their direction and speed. Some explorations need to be undertaken by experienced travellers only. Your average kayaker might have difficulty managing what Christopher Columbus did, especially if they don't have a map of the stars to follow. However, on saying that, it is my understanding also that experiences like Hunnicutt's are terrifying, frustrating and even quite dangerous for now, but (and this is the key, because he survived and transcended the awful experience) the long term knowledge and experience derived will help his development at a later time in life. It's the difference between people who never leave their home village their entire life and those who travel the world with no money for a couple of years. Neither is bad, per se, but the seasoned traveller will be able to cope better if something major were to disrupt their life and cause major changes. Young men often seem to find themselves falling foul of Datura or Brug, it's one of the most seductive and dangerous (ad so easily available) plants known to humankind, and young men frequently have the idea that they are invincible. If it's not Datura, it would be something else - fast driving (which affects others), extreme sports, drinking to excess, planking, and so on. It's also my understanding that Datura is a woman's drug. Women are much more careful with exploration than men, and Datura needs very careful exploration. Women also cognize differently to men, so maybe where it adversely affects men women wouldn't have the same issues - or at least, not to the same extent. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mud Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) (Dunno if this post has ever seen light..) Women are maybe less likely to be seduced by women (?) Datura is definitely female. It's for the brave and dead, really. a foaf with a shamans training approached her as he does.. humbly..in prayer.. was 'given' seed.. chewd and smoked .. some 'peppery' inebriation. A deep, dark summer/river kinda trance. but later during a vision quest of a research nature met the plant spirit herself- open eyed, and plan as day. 'True hallucination' style. She showed him what's really going on when ppl think theyre smoking fake cigarettes. ie: dislocation of body consciousness in order for the plant to feed- bring her energy through into our plane, through the 'exchange'. He queried upon alliance, and she graciously recieved the request in the form of "sure, il give you all the power you ever wanted- but I will own your soul and you'll never get it back". Pretty unfair exchange. Foaf declined. and spent the next 15 hours in psychic tug-o-war. Terror was revealed for what it could really be. Dribbling, psychotic mental quadraplegia for a potential lifetime. It was an easy decision to NEVER again ingest Datura. Just have a a lil smell : ) p.s I still think a Datura/caterpillar shit tincture might have potential. Surely ther can't be laws against caterpillar shit? Edited March 13, 2012 by mud Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TommyChesnutt Posted March 13, 2012 i agree with pretty much everything being said here... once again i urge any young crazy men reading this, and thinking 'yeah i've got to try datura...' do what mutant is doing, and smoke it in small amounts.. or go buy kwells, that way at least it's standardised... but first and foremost, ask yourself, 'why'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted March 13, 2012 i have experimented with datura only twice and aswell in my youth, but i smoked the leaves and not much happend, although now i know that some things did happen, and that datura halus are almost impossible to seperate from reality, when they happen. later after the experience, you can seperate them. the halus represent themselves as a very fast change of what happens. anyway, because of the subject matter, of this topic, i would like to know if, rectal and transdermal usage of datura might be much, much safer, than oral. i speculate this to have merit, because, the witches never drank it, and if you absorbe the activas via the skin or rectum, the brain is far, far away from the area of entry!!! but let's remeber, this forums members say, DON'T EVER EXPERIMENT WITH DATURA & BRUGMANSIAS, unless it's in minute doses, and in a save manner, and even the last, ought to be avoided. hunicutt, doesn't mention how he used it, but i guess it was a tea. some lawmaker people might not like us, but we are good for society, because we teach people not to misuse herbs, specialy, datura & co. AGAIN, NEVER EXPERIMENT WITH DATURA & CO!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) tropane alkaloids are known to increase in high salt soils... so... if u r growing plants to ingest either use inert potting mix... or mix beach sand and dose accordingly... which leads me to my next point. because of the variable 'personalities' of these plants it is often better to develop a relationship with one plant, or one genotype. this way over many years of collaboration on the great work of worshipping life as it is, a 'shaman' and his plant daughter may be thoroughly acquainted and understand where each others boundaries lay... there must, generally speaking, be set aside certain times of the year for work with certain species of plant... not only due to seasonal variations in alkaloid content but also due to the importance of properly rotationally excersizing all of the brains functional centres so as not to repetitively injur any one part. tropanaceous plant ointements are often used for arthritic complaints and muscle aches and pains... they are smoked to treat acute asthma attacks and for general bronchial dilation. they are also mixed with certain quality clays for treatment of some eye complaints and for use in 'seeing' by the same administration route. typically, once a relationship has been developed with a plant over many years the dosage can be ascertained. once this has been certainly achieved ointments can be compounded and applied to the torso and legs,this generally gives a topical and deep muscle anaesthetic type efect and due to added effect of mental dissociation the sensation of flying or floating is common... the most practical way of working with this powerful energy is over a month of special significance. start with a small test dose and establish is eficacy. the second dose is for flying. the alkaloids will accumulate and so by the 3rd4th 5th and 6th days ushould be gradually easing ure way into the full effectin a comfortable way. the rest of themonth is for solitary meditation and retreat/recovery. away from judging eyes andconfusing personal elements of society. tropane alkaloids are not dangerous when used properly. though for most people, trying to work a 9-5, maintain a family, entertain their mates, eat fried food and drink beer, it is absolutely not suitable. truly magickal beings interested only in attaining the power of the shamans and wizards, witches and diviners are dedicated to one task at a time and have the focus to devote and dedicate time to properly unfolding the mysteries of such an 'ally'. i say this however in the full belief that first the power must be attained, the wisdom firmly apprehended and only then once the mind has been liberated should such a 'powerful association' be pursued. the fact is for witches who use tropanes, the plants are kinda like carrying a shining silver sword with the words DEATHMASTER engraved on it... for most, absolutely unneccesary, for those living in cultures of plant mastery, its like a shiny gold star for being accomplished. amateur shaman researchers and wannabe claimants on the deep wisdom will/may/should suffer the obvious consequences of fucking with the queen of the plant kingdom. for young teenagers, she is like a deadly spider hiding under your pillow when u rest ure head at night... lovely. bless... note: long term tropane use distrupts nerve to muscle connection and can effect balance and memory. Edited March 14, 2012 by reptyle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted March 14, 2012 one things aboot some of these plants is that if ure mind is firmlyfixed in a supposedly reliably pure rationalism based upon the education u recieved at school and by ure parents then when things that thoroughly destroy those rational conception appear...simply,u will deem yourself mad... as will others. if however, u have somehow managed to expect the absolutely unexpected, to the point of realising u have always infacct been some form of animalhumanhybrid creature and instamatically cease the expectation to return to normal... whilst... being able to KEEP YOUR FUCKIN MOUTH SHUT... and not go on and on about the strange things u have thought of and the weird things happening and the bizarre weird and strange stuff that just wont stop and just (wo)man up and hack it to the point that noone is the wiser to your new found powers of perception... then u will transcend the ordinary state of reality and begin to live inthe world of the mythos... which is the true language of the mind. a true master can manage the world of the mythos in full stability and alter the fabric of ordinary reality to achieve material goals. the truth is we are alll characters in a hectic story and the true entanglement of our divine natures with the events of our lives remains for themost part buried... somelucky folks inthe process of digging their own grave, discover the truth and can very patiently divulge such secret mysteries and sacred stories to those ready to live as a hero in their own creation epic. those unmotivated workaday social slaves are the jinn and will continue on repeat until the final sun sets on our glorious kingdom... no need to wake them... we (shaman-priests,magi,saddhus) are the vampires bramstoker tried to warn u about... and to be honest if u lose respect for our power, u will find ureself in a narcotically induced coma unable to awaken till one of our kind decides they need a spare hand for harvesting corn silk and running our high grade illicits to and fro... love... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted March 14, 2012 or so the one true God to whome i bow in adoration and in whose grace i am blessed to live in faith and full trust tells me... Amen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) i'll continuee because i like the sound of my own keyboard but here's a recipe that i find works wonderfully... i hope noone goes boinkers trying this... datura, henbane, mandrake, or other root powdered... ne species shall do fore the scent is desirious and of significance... thesame tho fX may vary. powdered mugwhort... small pinches of taxus baccata which is quite poisonous (read: shaaaamaaaaniccccc) lite a small fire and place within its licking flames several large river wrocks. under the full moon and open air place the rocks in a brass vessel ordained for such a purpose and engraved with the story of the eve... sprinkle the powdered and mixt composition onto the rocks and stand at such a distance so as not to be directly inhaling the fumes... allow the wafting scents to tickle the very surface of yhour palms and brush through the hair... the homoeopathic effectsof this smoke WILL give u magick powers... use with caution... this is a sacred druid recipe... and i'm not sharing it. may the ancients forgive my indiscretion. fore today and tonight is the time of remembering. these things i h ave learnd at the cost of my sanities... though i am one with the ya'll apart tho togther... to be tempted by angels trumpeting loudly and pursue them to the gateway of christ, i have returned to tell tales of truth and twist lies into light... forgive me my sins as i forgive and let us this day share the kingdom the power and the glory... with caution beware for trespassers shall suffer the torments of those ignorants burning hellfire off the heart of the living suffering, dare not to awaken the demon for death is pursuant only for the honest and the immortals are in eternal peril. care gently and live the life u have been given and none elses. for we are of magick and mystery and to the very God of all creation we are connected. discern and decide with what wisdom abides in the eyes, see clearly and fearfully for u r a beast of heavens burden. forgive me. Omen... Edited March 14, 2012 by reptyle 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vual Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) anyway, because of the subject matter, of this topic, i would like to know if, rectal and transdermal usage of datura might be much, much safer, than oral. There is a tale that suggests that old peasant women used smooth wooden rods as transdermal applicators in order to rub psychoactive/dissociatives onto/into their vagina, which spawned the whole "flying broomstick" myth. Much debate but its possible that a route of administration was lacing a broomstick with a paste and inserting it vaginaly so the substance could penertrate the vaginal mucous membrains... gives you a entire new understanding to "Witches ride broomsticks" ..... right it seems maybe a tobical administration to under the arm pits may be a interesting method. http://scienceblogs....tches_and_b.php From a witchcraft investigation in 1324: "In rifleing the closet of the ladie, they found a Pipe of oyntment, wherewith she greased a staffe, upon the which she ambled and galloped through thick and thin." Also this from around 1470: "But the vulgar believe, and the witches confess, that on certain days or nights they anoint a staff and ride on it to the appointed place or anoint themselves under the arms and in other hairy places." http://www.straightd...and-broomsticks Interesting mention about catapiller shit the other day i was watching a young cutting of my tree and in between the leafs at the "head" there was a few little round balls obviously catapilla shit, i wonder what goes on in the catapilla's world, what goes threw there head, they eat it all day and there are not dead catapilla's lying around...... Edited March 16, 2012 by vual Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hedonix Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) I maintain gardens with brugs everyday... my boss loves them and has them in over 200 of his gardens... i smell the flowers all the time and have never noticed any effect what so ever...the scent is only noticed in the evening also. Edited March 17, 2012 by Hedonix Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hedonix Posted March 17, 2012 @ reptyle - "the homoeopathic effectsof this smoke WILL give u magick powers... use with caution..." LOL i'm curious to know what kind of 'MAGICK' powers this will give you?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whitewind Posted March 17, 2012 @ reptyle - "the homoeopathic effectsof this smoke WILL give u magick powers... use with caution..." LOL i'm curious to know what kind of 'MAGICK' powers this will give you?? Aggression and and a sense Godhood is a couple of things strongly associated with extensive (excessive, probably) contact with and around Brugmansia and Datura, I hope you take this in to account as you work with the plants as frequently as you do. Or perhaps you could experience slightly self-elevated confidence. What is your boss like? Smoking, of course, will likely induce stronger effects than simply inhaling the wondrous scent of the flowers, but still, there are numerous stories of people falling asleep under a Datura bush and having very interesting dreams.. often involving flying, unsurprisingly. While I come to it, I did some witchcraft once which didn't involve Datura but did involve symbology and flying. Amazing stuff, and I can imagine how even small amounts of this potent plant material could facilitate the experience I had. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted March 17, 2012 you are intoxicated with life and blinded to the source of creation... such as is the gross effect of these poisons... likewise of these ill's u shalll be cured and in time all seeing and all powers of creation be made available... similibus similibum curentur!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stillman Posted March 19, 2012 Aggression and and a sense Godhood is a couple of things strongly associated with extensive (excessive, probably) contact with and around Brugmansia and Datura. Sounds about right. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
holymountain Posted March 19, 2012 reptyle your posts have a lot of really good information. it's true that these plants need to be treated seriously and shamanically. the trip should start well before anything is actually ingested and a focus mind with purpose and planning should be employed. you're written style reminds me of Dale Pendell's Pharmako Trilogy are you familiar with those books? you should also check out Ars Philtron by Daniel Shulke if you are interested in making magickal brews of this nature. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
