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The Corroboree
Evil Genius

Intergeneric Breeding with Electricity

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Hi Guys, just wanted to let you know that i dug out a technique that may increase the chances of intergeneric breeding greatly. The technique was successfully used to force self-sterile cacti to accept their own pollen by causing some kind of a short-circuit on the stigma. It should actually also work to make cacti accept the pollen of other, sometimes very very unrelated generas. Im not sure if that comes across but this is a very groundbreaking thing and if it really works, it can be used to create some crazy new hybrids. So please try it out and let me know. Will definately do the same.

Technique goes like this: Go get a 9V Battery. Braze or wrap a small copper wire on both poles. Put one wire in the ground and cover the second wire with the pollen you want to use as father. Then put the wire with the pollen on the stigma of the flower. Thats it. If you had some electricity going, its possible there will be some freaky seeds later. Technique is extremely experimential but i do know that it definately worked to create seed in case of self sterile cacti and im pretty positive it should at least higher the chances of success. Btw, dont think you´ll get an electric stroke from a small battery like this but if your finger tingles a little bit and shit, you do this on your own risk. ;) bye Eg

Edited by Evil Genius
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Wow, thats really great info. Thanks for posting, zelly. Didnt know its that of a wide field and im sure theres some great stuff that can be applied for the cactus culture in there.

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This sounds interesting. Is it solely your work or are there published papers on it?

Any idea if the electric charge is required at the point of pollination or if the pollen or stigma could be pre-treated seperately? Or if a specific voltage/amperage is preferable?

I have some just insanely cold hardy cacti I'd love to cross with distant cousins.

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Wow a lot to go on in there....

I had read an article from a japanese researcher who found electromagnetic comunication between trees... Now this opens for a lot of "freak" experiences.

Zelly, have you done some experiments with multiple wave oscillators? Care to share your experiences?

That reminds me the Lovecraftian movie "from beyond" :) (a wave oscillator to stimulate the pineal gland)

On a more realistic note and on a planetary scale, there's that "Evil" Tesla related "experiments" they are doing in Alaska called HAARP (check youtube).

Another obscure author but well worth checking is Viktor Scauberger. His works touches on nature, thecnology, water and healing.

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Interestig concept. Since to my limited understanding cell/cell interaction roughly depends on electric potentiales of cell membranes and their proteins it makes sence somehow. Do you know if the direction of the electric current matters? Should I plug the pollen on the + or on the - ? :)

Edited by spined

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Who else could have started such a topic? :lol:

And EG, you mentioned you 'dug up' this technique? From where did you dig it up?

I can image how such a technique would allow pollen to bypass any "filters" the stigma may have, but I can't imagine how it would allow two highly different gametes to fuse. I'd love more information to be able to try it out. :)

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Who else could have started such a topic? :lol:

lol yeah bluntmuffin, kinda fits my Avatar.

From where did you dig it up?

I happen to collect a lot of Cactus Literature and there was a short report about some guy doing this successfully back in the 90´s with his cacti but after he died, the thing kinda died out because it wasnt really that much known. I saw some plants that were allegedly produced like this a few years ago and in those cases, it did indeed work.

No Idea about what pole to use for volt-raping the flower. Just try both. :devil:

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Hehe, volt-raping. On a second thought polarity should not matter. I will try it on my Turbinicarpus alonsoni next spring if it dares to bloom. To make it really painfull for the cactus I might bottom water right before

post-6368-0-96329300-1327685278_thumb.jp

Edited by spined

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i've thought about this old gene transferring method I've seen,... where bacteria get blasted with other genes by high pressure gas. this used to be the old way of combining genes of one spp with another to get characteristics..... I though,... well,.. what if we blast cacti with genes of other cacti to form new combos and this way force chimeras.

dont remember the exact details,.. only remember that with bacteria the chances of succes were low with this method.

hopefully I will have time to digg up some more details about this method.

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There is one methode that uses small metal particles with DNA fragments attached that gets shot into a bacterium with pressure. Maybe thats the methode you have in mind. With plants or animals its a lot harder because of the more complex genom organisation and the nuleus. The next step to introduce new genes into a plant is via the modified plant patogenic bacterium or a virus to create transgenetic plants. The hybridisation is a less radical approach which often occures naturally with many plants. As far as I know all cacti have the same chromosom number, so they might theoretically all be able form a zygotes with each other when some species specific fertilisation barriers are bypassed...with an electrical shock for example

Edited by spined
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EG this is so interesting

so is any one planing on trying this because I would love to hear the results and also try it myself.

Is it the positive side of the battery you put on the stigma or the negative? I would assume positive

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spined,.... thats' probably the method I was referring to. Thx. Glad you know a bit more about that method. So I guess,... EG's,... Evil and Genius.... hahaha,... his mentioned method is the way to experiment.

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EG do you know if the plants were in pots or the ground, i have a p.c pachnoi in a pot with 5-6 flower buds that i'd love to give this a go with.

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Moses, he was a german and grew most if not all of his plants in pots. But im pretty sure it isnt that important if they are in the ground or not. So yeah, give it a try. Maybe you can write some notes down with what kind of flower humidity you were performing your tests.I assume that moisture could have an influence on success rates too. Im working on it as well and will share my results later on. Could take months at least though.

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Moses, he was a german and grew most if not all of his plants in pots. But im pretty sure it isnt that important if they are in the ground or not. So yeah, give it a try. Maybe you can write some notes down with what kind of flower humidity you were performing your tests.I assume that moisture could have an influence on success rates too. Im working on it as well and will share my results later on. Could take months at least though.

Great to hear you will be trying this I cant wait for results

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Absolutely, jwerta. Would stick a fork in the high voltage power outlet if it´d help to create freaks. :wub:

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Would stick a fork in the high voltage power outlet if it´d help to create freaks. :wub:

Give it a try!!

Be sure to be standing in a metal sauce pan full of water when you do, fer sure you'll create at least one freak! :P

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This is crazy haha I never would have thought frying your cacti could do that! Looking forward to seeing some results :) wishing I had some cacti in flower now

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Technique goes like this: Go get a 9V Battery. Braze or wrap a small copper wire on both poles. Put one wire in the ground and cover the second wire with the pollen you want to use as father. Then put the wire with the pollen on the stigma of the flower. Thats it.

So, like, for how long should you do this? Overnight? Would it work if you used 240v for a split second or am I missing part of the detail? Does this mean that if you pollinate plants during a thunderstorm you will get freaky babies in the morning? Will it work with other plants?

Love to see the results of this. Wish I had some flowering cactus - anything - to experiment with!

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He said to use the 9 VDC electrode to apply the pollen so it should only take a second.

...and dont plug your cactus in to a 240 VAC line unless you want to be mopping green goo off your walls :P

My google-fu may just be weak but it seems no papers have been published on this, so optimal voltage may be anybodies guess.

It may be dependant on electrochemical reactions or tissue damage. In organic and inorganic electrochemistry alike few reactions take more than 3 volts. It might need as little as one or two AA batteries. Then again it might need the extra watts in a 9V to do tissue damage.

Any uni student want a paper named after them?

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He said to use the 9 VDC electrode to apply the pollen so it should only take a second. ...and dont plug your cactus in to a 240 VAC line unless you want to be mopping green goo off your walls

And that's why I never start experiments in the morning. I give myself at least one day and a sleep before trying anything new!

My google-fu may just be weak but it seems no papers have been published on this, so optimal voltage may be anybodies guess. It may be dependant on electrochemical reactions or tissue damage. In organic and inorganic electrochemistry alike few reactions take more than 3 volts. It might need as little as one or two AA batteries. Then again it might need the extra watts in a 9V to do tissue damage.

That's pretty interesting, that such a small voltage might have a significant effect. Creating a short circuit on the stigma!

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So, like, for how long should you do this? Overnight?

I think you only need to do it while you apply the pollen but it maybe be possible it helps to do it longer. Also it may be helpful to experiment with diffrent humidity settings as well. Its very experimential and there isnt really a lot of first hand experience out there. Thats why i would like to use this thread for people to collect their experiences. If it really works, i´ll make a downloadable pdf with our shared experients and make it available for everyone. But before that, im happy to learn anything about your experiences that i can.

Would it work if you used 240v for a split second or am I missing part of the detail?

Please dont do that. ;) Also dont put a spoon in the hight voltage outlet as i suggested because that might be contraproductive to your health. You know, as much as i would like people to experiment, i dont want them to electrocute themselves by accident. I assume that amount of electricity could kill or damage the cactus but i dont know. Im sure no one ever tried it. Maybe for a reason.

And Auxin is pretty much spot on with the rest as well and thats how i see things too. Just try out, repeat if neccessary, with diffrent types of pollen, under diffrent circumstances, just think about the times before you learnt how things are supposed to be and question everything, be experimential! If it really works, its really a great topic for a academical paper.

Edited by Evil Genius

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cool...i have 2 questions:

1. if we get a hybrid, do we get to name them? :D

2. can i use this technique on two very different flowering plants? like mango x orange perhaps?

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