Weak or non-active cubensis

[duffman]

Hi all,

Went for a hunt yesterday with quite a bit of success, found a good haul of both panaeolus cyanescens and cubensis. The meanies bruised blue as excpected but only 1 or 2 of the cubes found bruised slightly blue and the rest not at all. They were looked old and some were quite large and looked like they had been sitting there quite a while, but still looked ok. I am experienced in identifying cubes and they were definately them, had the frill, cow poo, purple spores etc. Is it possible that they were just old and didnt have much psilocybin left in them??

Cheers,

Duffman

[lofty86]

Ive seen cubes that havnt stained, upon busting them up further i noticed they had begun to rot from the inside out I suspect there the ones id found growing in a puddle perhaps they got water logged, also noticed delayed staining before throw them in the fridge for a bit if your unsure cold tends to increase the staining

[Marcel]

Stamet's proposes that psilocybin degrades with exposure to UV, therefore exposed, older specimens would have lower psilocybin content.

[Distracted]

I've found cubes will bruise when wet and fresh but not when they're old AND dried out. So maybe they didn't bruise cause they're dried and they didn't have much actives because of what Marcel said.

edit: or they're just freaks that don't bruise blue and just didn't have much actives in them. mushrooms have way too many variables.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Distracted

[naja naja]

only psilocin turns blue

[Dr Psilocin]

correct , from oxidization from enzymes in our skin when it contacts the gods flesh =]

[cactuscarl]

I have been told the blue has nothing to do with activity not sure if it's true but there are many inactive mushrooms that turn blue. I still only pick young ones they always turn much more blue and always seem to be much stronger. I had mind blowing experiences with very small quantities of young undeveloped shrooms, be careful with the young ones

[naja naja]

Only Psilocin turns blue, psilocibin does not.

[Zen Peddler]

B+ rarely ever stained, whereas Argentineans stained blue/black. I always thought that was interesting...

[TheExplorer]

As naja naja pointed out, it is psilocin which causes blueing. Panaeolus cyanescens bruise excessively due to their high ratio of psilocin:psilocybin (hence, the term 'blue meanies'), whereas Psilocybe cubensis have a higher ratio of psilocybin:psilocin. I have, however, seen cubensis which turn black from excessive oxidisation. Therefore, potency shouldn't be judged on blueing, as the effects of mushrooms can come from both psilocin and psilocybin (and to a lesser extent baeocystin and norbaeocystin). Psilocybin converts into psilocin to pass through the blood/brain barrier anyways.

I think the answer to OP's question could be a combination of the above answers. Firstly, psilocin is unstable and degrades much easier compared to psilocybin, so the mushrooms you are picking may still contain psilocybin but the psilocin has degraded. Secondly, and this is just my theory, older/drier specimens don't bruise as the cell walls have dried and trapped the good stuff inside, just like when you dry out your mushrooms for storage. I find that bruising slows down when mushrooms have dried anywhere beyond 25%, and stop bruising at all at about 50% (rough estimates). As mushrooms can reach these levels and still be 'pickable', then the mushrooms that don't bruise may just be too dry to show any oxidisation. I have also seen this in the field plenty of times. Dried cell walls aside, you lose something like 50% of total psilocin when you dry mushrooms, so obviously that makes a difference as well.

Ive seen cubes that havnt stained, upon busting them up further i noticed they had begun to rot from the inside out I suspect there the ones id found growing in a puddle perhaps they got water logged, also noticed delayed staining before

I have also experienced little-to-no bruising when specimens are waterlogged or at least very wet. Anyone know why this happens? Perhaps diffusion of psilocin out of the cells? (This would make sense as psilocybin and psilocin are water soluble). Too much water causing the cells to burst open and release psilocin (and psilocybin)?

correct , from oxidization from enzymes in our skin when it contacts the gods flesh =]

Skin enzymes? You can cut mushrooms with a knife or scissors and they will still bruise. Maybe I am missing something here.

Edited December 27, 2011 by TheExplorer

[Zen Peddler]

Actually I think with cubensis no staining would indicate a lesser indole content to me, since they usually have a pretty high psilocin content.

[naja naja]

Yeah, it's actually caused by oxidation with, well, umm oxygen. But hey, he works at a mycological department and would ofcourse know his shit hey Who am I to nit pik

Edited January 5, 2012 by naja naja