Auxin Posted April 20, 2002 Heres an idea: It seems the catagory 'Magic & Witchcraft' is underused, so what if it were changed to something like 'Magic & Entheospirituality' ??? This would broaden the definition enough so when people want to talk about entheogen spirituality, talking plants, flying purple singing elves type stuff they could go there instead of having it get burried in the shamans chill space. What do ya' think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mesqualero Posted April 20, 2002 Motion seconded... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Thelema Posted April 21, 2002 why not go one step further, and drop the "magic"? And I dont think it should be "entheospirituality", tho i would be more inclined to write if called "entheospiritual connections" or some such thing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anubian lights Posted April 21, 2002 Yes I tend to agree Auxin. The term Witchcraft is quite a specialised word and a specific path, and many who follow alternative belief systems or have experiences or ideas outside consensus reality are not Wiccans or pagans. So a more general term would expand the scope of this particular forum. Thelema, I think magic is a much more general term and can apply to all experiences and ideas that lie beyond our rational everyday reality. Though I agree it is difficult to come up with a general title that embraces and encourages discussion on such a vast area as this. Maybe other wise souls have some suggestions or ideas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonFyre Posted April 21, 2002 whats wrong with plain and simple Magic & Spirituality ?? Magic covers Witchcarft plus many other aspects and spirituality can cover the religion and spiritual aspects... also in alot of spiritual teachings, magic is a part also and motion Thirded (can u do that?) [This message has been edited by DragonFyre (edited 21 April 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted April 21, 2002 I thought about 'Magic & Spirituality ' but that might lead to a WHOLE LOT of people trying to convert everyone else to their religion. Talking is good, but agressive evangalism is not so good (it has its place, but I'd like to hope thats not here). So I thought 'magic & entheospirituality' would keep away some of the anti-all-drugs religious crusaders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anubian lights Posted April 22, 2002 Auxin, I really wouldn't worry about the whole Evangelical conversion issue on this forum. I think every serious psychonaut comes to the the conclusion that the ingestion of certain substances opens ones mind to an experience that can only be described as a magical or spiritual state of being. Also considering that one can progress on the path of spiritual awareness without the use of ethnogens Id have to agree with DragonFyre's motion of Magic& spirituality! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Thelema Posted April 22, 2002 "magic" is philosophically more of a misleading term than 'spirituality'. Many things guise under its rubric. At least spirituality is narrative in form. I personally do not believe that magic should be included simply because it seems to be "more general in form". many of us here do not believe in Magic. Many of us ethnobotanists try to consolidate our opinions on a rational,tangible level, and many of us with extraordinary education can accomodate our experiences without the use of such Hypotheses. I find it insulting that such a forum be called "magical." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted April 22, 2002 Thelema is right, not all of us believe in magic. However, having it in the title does little more than leave the option there for those who wish to use it. Also right is the statement that not all ethnobotany people use entheogens. However, this is the spiritual/religious segment of an ethnobotany site, and that usually relates to entheogens, even if they are not used as such (like a bible garden). So again I think it just leaves the option open. Personally, I think we should leave in the 'Magic' part (for those who want it) but expand the 'Witchcraft' to accomodate a broader range of faiths. So to sum up the ideas to date, we have: 'Magic & Entheospirituality' 'entheospiritual connections' 'entheospirituality' and 'Magic & Spirituality' Any other ideas, votes, input? Where is the moderator Wazron? Surely he/she/it/they have some input. I think what is slowing us up is that we dont know the origional intent of this forum. Is it for any religious talk, just for magic, for magic & entheospirituality? And is it fixed at that definition or is it up for creative redefining? Is there a forum mission statement? Wazron? WAZRON Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonFyre Posted April 22, 2002 Thelema, have your HONESTLY even looked into Philosophy? Obviously not from your last statement as ANYONE whom has looked into Philosophy with some depth will know that it was a "mask" for esoteric and gnostic teachings till a few years ago... as that was how I first came across these teachings myself mmmm, highly edjumakated was it thelema that you are, is it?!? hmmm.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonFyre Posted April 22, 2002 and as it is I definately think the magic should stay, not for myself personally as I'm in doubt as to any "true" magic, though it doesnt mean it doesnt exist, but mainly as pointed out before by Auxin - just for those that do... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonFyre Posted April 22, 2002 Originally posted by Thelema:I find it insulting that such a forum be called "magical." Doesn't take too much then, does it?!? [This message has been edited by DragonFyre (edited 22 April 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anubian lights Posted April 23, 2002 Hey Thelema,. I guess it all depends upon your definition of Magic. Considering that you find the term insulting suggests that you define it as pulling a rabbit out of a hat. In a truer sense Magic is an an ancient esoteric science that studies those dimensions of reality that influence and trancend the physical level. Semantics aside, if I'm smoking some DMT and enjoying an astral encounter with some interdimensional elf-like creatures, I'd definately call it a magical experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted April 23, 2002 I figure magic is kinda part of spirituality. Witchcraft on the other hand is quite a separate field. My suggestion would be to call it Spirituality and witchcraft. (or the other way round) and if we can't agree on anything, then maybe just spirituality. yeah, where's that moderator Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonFyre Posted April 23, 2002 right on anubian lights, I couldnt have said it better myself, if my brain had been working properly at the time and how about Spirituality, Witchcraft and Magic then??? [This message has been edited by DragonFyre (edited 23 April 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mesqualero Posted April 23, 2002 Wouldn't Spirituality incorporate Witchcraft anyways?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted April 23, 2002 Yes spirituality would incorporate witchcraft (and all religions). 'Magic and spirituality' sounds like a good idea, kinda all encompasing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiraleyes Posted April 23, 2002 spirituality,magic and consciousness. spirituality- personal quest magic- the art of manipulating reality consciousness- ??lotsa stuff. cant think ,itchy brain. just a thought Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted April 23, 2002 A good thought at that. 'Spirituality, magic and consciousness' has my vote. Just one question remains, where is the moderator? Wazron? ... Wazron? WAZRON!?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mesqualero Posted April 23, 2002 Havent seen wazron about for a while.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anubian lights Posted April 24, 2002 Hey Torsten. I'd agree that magic and spirituality can be synonymous, though Witchcraft is not necessarily a seperate field. To Wiccans, magic IS their form of ritual and expression of spirituality. Just as to the native Shaman there is little if any distinction between magic and spirituality. So as Mesqualero says, Witchcraft or any other form of alternative faith, ritual or belief incorporates aspects of both magic and spirituality. So I think Auxin and DragonFyre have hit the right "all encompassing" Balance. Consciousness, spiraleyes..is a very important part of the equation, but I suspect it can be discussed under the guise of Magic and spirituality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted April 24, 2002 sure, witchcraft also includes some spiritual aspects, but much of it is about healing (medicinal and spiritual) and magic. I think any of the terms we have been throwing around have a decent overlap, so this point will come up on all of them. Maybe overlap isn't a bad thing anyway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonFyre Posted April 24, 2002 Consciousness (awareness is a better word if you ask me) is the MAIN part of most "true" spirituality... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiraleyes Posted April 24, 2002 awareness is a better state of consciousness spirtuality totality medicina healing magic ecstasy shamanism consciousness awareness dreaming err....umm... i think 'healing'(mind body spirit)would be a good word in the title. i think 'totality' is a good word too. i dont think its a matter of whitchcraft being the right or wrong word,it just doesnt seem to have the right ring. for me anyways. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
