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apothecary

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Some people in the lab are aware I've been working on a new tropane mix I like to call the rainbow...

Tried it for the first time tonight..constituents are B. aurea, Solandra, and D. stramonium v. tatula all harvested after dark and dried to retain colour and potency.

It's a little bit hot to smoke because of the Solandra, but hotdamn I think we have a winner. I'm having troulbe typing this message after one small cone with some lotus extract.

Effects came on straight away, I feel stoned, but energetic, sharp, and a litle bit crazy. :D

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:D Nice work Apoth sounds like a great smoking mix u have made. I will be keen to see how it goes with further experiments for You. A little off topic but obviously the mixture has Tropanes in it so what would the legality of trying to sell such a product as a smoking mixture? would it be difficult? Just curious

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if you need a test subect let me know :innocent_n:

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Just the first update on some new ideas guys.

I was working off various hints and stuff like that to get a good dream mix going and think I've hit the jackpot.

My main problem with working on a good mix for dreaming is that some of the herbs I like to use are especially powerful (e.g. Datura) and thus make it hard to get to sleep after you've smoked it.

Then I remembered Rev mentioning once that Ashwaghanda leaf has a "hypnotising" effect when smoked. It sounded just right to shield the user from too much "stone" while drifting off to bed.

Also my ideas about mixing SSRIs and tropanes has finally paid off, although not in the direction I originally imagined, rather that it seems SSRIs have the ability to increase dreaming vividity. I hit Google Scholar up to see if anyone had done any research on these lines and found with this paper:

SSRI treatment suppresses dream recall frequency but increases subjective dream intensity in normal subjects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...7&dopt=Abstract

With these two tidbits, as well as helpful herb donations from Rev, planthelper & the wonderful hebrew, I managed to get to work and come up with the following:

1 part 5X Calea

1 part Datura flower (I think metel is currently winning in my mind for best species to smoke, though I haven't tried innoxia yet)

1/2 part Sceletium powder

1-2 parts Ashwaghanda leaf (depending on how much you are affected by Datura & Sceletium)

I found that the 5X Calea was only slightly more effective (might need butane lighter for better results here) than plain leaf, so if you can't spare it, don't fret :)

From the above ratios mixes of around 1-2g can created, only a small portion of which (1-2 cones) is nescessary for very good and bizarre dreaming.

Please keep in mind that all the tropanic plants I use have their potency quantified by me before use. I dry, chop and standardise first, always testing potency and negative effects before using in mixes.

This mix also makes for a good recreational smoke if you cut down on some of the Ashwaghanda (too hypnotising = drifting off at parties = bad idea :P), Calea + Sceletium has a very interesting buzz when you're concious.

As a matter of fact, I've just mixed up a bag of this stuff that will probably weigh out to about 10 joints for smoking at a party tonight.

Keep your eyes on this thread guys, I've got some more stuff coming along shortly.

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Oh, don't worry Apo, I'll be watching this thread! :)

I love your smoking mixes, and I think I might try making some of this one up myself. I know it won't compare to a mix made by the master, but I've got everything I need. :D

I think everyone should give this a go, if anyone knows his smoking mixes, it's Apothecary.

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Oh, don't worry Apo, I'll be watching this thread! :)

So will I, there is some interesting reading here :)

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maybe i'm reading things wrong, but datura for a dream mix?

i thought datura was an anticholinergenic. doesn't acetylcholine aid with memory function? wouldn't datura reduce the ability for dream recollection and/or general memory function?

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Yep that's pretty much the question I asked n00dle. How come a potent anticholinergic makes you hallucinate people from way back in your past you have otherwise forgotten? Nicotine is also anticholinergic (different acetylcholine receptor to the muscarinic ones though) but I don't know about memory loss from smoking cigarettes...

How does stuff like sleeping with a flowering Brugmansia in your room crazy up your dreams so much? I've been sitting next to wilting Brugmansia flowers while on the computer, gone to bed, and had very vivid, lucid and intense dreams!

Edited by apothecary
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I'm an avid dreamer (frequenter on a lucid dreaming forum) and keep a constant dream diary and statistics, so i'm very interested in any developments.

How come a potent anticholinergic makes you hallucinate people from way back in your past you have otherwise forgotten?
I think most chems that are psychoactive are liable to make you 'drop your guards' which makes things easier to access supressed memories. I don't think the fact that it is an anticholinergenic has anything to do with it - patients are being trialed on MDMA to unlock supressed memories from traumatic events aren't they?
How does stuff like sleeping with a flowering Brugmansia in your room crazy up your dreams so much?
I'm skeptical on this one. I don't think stuff is that potent/volatile to cause that much of an effect, that seems more like a placebo effect or a nostalgia/anchor.

The only thing i can think of is (after looking at the pubmed article) is that if seratonin levels rise, this can be akin to greater intensity of dreams. If you take something that destroys seratonin, when it goes to fill it back up, it's likely to cause wierd dreams. However, i don't know if this is a justafiable link - it's not safe to screw with your seratonin balance (ie purposely releasing it nightly before bed, to have your body rebuild the supply) for the sake of dreams.

Edited by n00dle

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I think most chems that are psychoactive are liable to make you 'drop your guards' which makes things easier to access supressed memories. I don't think the fact that it is an anticholinergenic has anything to do with it - patients are being trialed on MDMA to unlock supressed memories from traumatic events aren't they?

Tropane chemicals entire psychoactivity is only due to their anticholinergic nature...MDMA doesn't affect your memory receptors one way or the other. I'd agree MDMA allows you to drop your guard and access supressed memories, but I don't see how this would apply to tropanes.

I'm skeptical on this one. I don't think stuff is that potent/volatile to cause that much of an effect, that seems more like a placebo effect or a nostalgia/anchor.
I think you should try it before you knock it.
The only thing i can think of is (after looking at the pubmed article) is that if seratonin levels rise, this can be akin to greater intensity of dreams. If you take something that destroys seratonin, when it goes to fill it back up, it's likely to cause wierd dreams. However, i don't know if this is a justafiable link - it's not safe to screw with your seratonin balance (ie purposely releasing it nightly before bed, to have your body rebuild the supply) for the sake of dreams.

I'm sorry, what part of the smoking mix destroys serotonin? My understanding of SSRIs was different..maybe I'm wrong, can you elaborate here?

As for purposely releasing serotonin nightly before bed, I'm pretty sure your body does something like this anyway, and I doubt smoking 50-100mg of sceletium with some other herbs once in a while is gonna screw with any brain receptor balance really.

Anyway. The point of this post was more along the lines of a new smoking mix.

I was reading about Nymphaea species and the traditional use of orally ingested Nymphaea with Opium (possibly ground poppy seeds in beer) and Mandrake root.

Out of all of that I only had the Nymphaea but I tried improvising anyway to get something similar, but smokable.

1g dried Kratom leaf

1g dried Nymphaea stamens (stamens only!)

0.5g dried Henbane leaf

I think we tried something similar to this one day of the camping trip (it's all a bit hazy :P) that went pretty well.

Where legal, I plan on trying this mix again but with Nelumbo species instead to see if there is a better effect. As it is, this is a good mix to enjoy with a few beers, capitalising on both Nymphaea and Henbanes synergy with alcohol.

I think the above 2.5g rolls into about 8 nice sized cigarettes, which I found fits into a night of beer drinking pretty well (especially if you don't drink a lot like me).

Please note that Kratom is illegal in Australia and these experiments were conducted in a different part of planet earth where things are a bit nicer.

Edited by apothecary

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Yum yum!

A nice tasting smoke that has no really inebriating effects (e.g.good for smoking when you want to smoke but not smoke tobacco) is Bacopa sp. (most do fine) and a little bit of Spearmint.

1:1:1 of Sida cordifolia foliage, N. rustica and Brugmansia leaf? Definitely has a very sharp kick.

(could probably substitute sida foliage with seeds, which is how I read they smoke sida in Mexico)

Acorus gramineus and D. myoporoides is interesting! I think I got the inspiration for this one from one of friendlys old ideas "calamus and amanita". This is one of those ones you can only smoke on special occasions because you don't have so much material to work with :wink:. The mix itself looks quite nice green/whitey brown colours and burns softly.

Working on some more sedating ones and will post ideas soon...

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This ones a hard hitter

1:1:2 of D. myoporoides:D. hopwoodii (thanks again Rimbaud! :D):Sida rhombifolia foliage.

Bit rough on the lungs, but you can reduce this by curing the D. hopwoodii for a few months.

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Can't compare it to anything really, never tried speed or ephedra or even sida foliage in a tea.

It stimulates me, but I've never gotten the indicative scalp tingles...

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how about a mixture of catnip and wormwood?

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Never tried it!

How about you give it a shot and report back? Sounds nummy...

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I found a good mix for night transforming to morning, brug and.....well it was LSD.

Does that count apothecary?

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hey apoth, i've noticed several of your smoking mixes contain both tobaccos and tropanics. now if memory serves correcttly, isn't atropine (found in abundance in tropanics) an acetylcholine antagonist while nicotoine is an acetylecholine agonist? wouldn't this mean that if ingesting both at the same time, the nicotine would be counteracted by the atropine? I would have thought this would have about as much effect as injecting your heroin with naloxone (Narcan). or do you think the nicotine acts first, then the tropanes start to take over, as they do not act as quickly as nicotine.

interested to see what you think about this.

-Frank

ps, maybe this belongs in pharmacology, but i thought as this is where the action was i should just put it in here.

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Well apparently the Indians have been smoking datura with tobacco for some time (somewhere on here I think Torsten mentioned the 'Indian cigarette')... must be getting something out of it. Either that or it's mass longterm placebo action ;)

Interesting question and I'm curious to see what someone who knows a bit about this has to say.

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maybe then the effects are from other alkaloids present in the plant

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i have a dream of making all sorts of smoke mixes... im glad to see that there is so much experimentation with accessing the synergestic nature of plants. It seems the mixes you have been making apoth are really tapping into some intuitive medicine in regards to plant teachers...

Smoking plants, and mixes of plants, is such an ancient past-time and has so many links to archaic knowledge/information... Seeing new smoke mixes, and particularly smoke mixes that are made with such concise 'craftsmanship', utilised and conceived, is for me a sign of great progress in regards to accessing plant lore and downloading the teaching modalities of entheogens and 'alchemy'...

Shamanic alchemy is such a potent phenomena, and there is so much to be learnt..

On a lighter note, i have a dream mix that one day i would like to experience (perhaps in sth america, or somewhere more dedicated/able/willing to protect the individuals right to freedom of mind and spirit)...

it goes something like this:

the 'dreamweaver' mix

Freshly dried viridis, carthinogensis and caapi leaves (3/4)

Shredded caapi root + shredded hostillis bark (1/8)

passiflora leaves, stem + flower (1/8)

infused with 50% dmt

a couple of unspecificed acacia phyllodes crumbled in for good measure

flower essences to taste

maybe one day... but until then the catnip, damiana, lilly and good organic ganja are pretty bloody astounding from all reports!

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Im working on a catnip and scullcap resin mix atm, will report on it if it works out. BTW I was just reading that datura and scullcap have been tested and seem to inhibit seizures in rats, binding to GABA(A).

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They're different receptor subsets.

There are muscarinic acetylcholine receptors, which are antagonised by muscimol and scopolamine...

Then there's nicotnic acetylcholine receptors. Reportedly antagonised by the alkaloids in Heimia sp. :wink: ...and like you said, agonised by nicotine.

I'm no neuroheadbrain guy, so I can only guess, but I'm guessing that you wouldn't get a similar H/naloxone reaction because you're agonising something different to what you're antagonising.

:)

EDIT: Oh yeah there may be other acetylcholine receptor subsets, but my favourite resource

http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C10/C10Link...l.com/index.htm

is gone so I can't elaborate :(

Edited by apothecary

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Gonna take these mugwort and motherwort seeds out of the fridge... should be well stratified now, kinda forgot about them.

Gonna have fun making some mixes with those down the track :D.

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ahhh now i see apothecary. how foolish of me.

on another note, would this mean that atropine could be used to cut down the toxicity of amanitas because they inhibit muscarine action? because that would be good....

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