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Quetzalt

Trade/ purchase gone wrong?

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Even though I've been arround for quite a while, I'm a fairly new member. My contribution is scarce, I'm not an expert and, as most of my questions are not unique, I easily find answers with a little research.

I've had a a few trades now, all very happy but one. I think this community is great with dedicated, knowlegeable, helpful and friendly people. Regarding trade and exchange matters, trustworthiness, honesty and reasonability are essential factors and as dishonest activities are highly detrimental, I think they should be exposed.

As a side note, I made all efforts to sort out the trade with the seller and I've asked advice to the moderators before coming here and talk about the situation.

The member in question is Teotzlcoatl. Has anyone ever had any sucessfull purchase/ trades with Her/ (Him?) Has anyone experienced something similar to my situation? Was the deal made within or outside US?

I've sent her $125 for a couple of plants and seeds to Europe/ Portugal which I never received and there were over 60 emails and PMs since May to see the matter resolved, without success. In the past I have received hundreds of plants from all over the world through mail, some were required cerificates by customs and some even requested (by me) to be sent back to the sender due to custom's expensive fees. Never had problems with SAB and even had the ocasional dead plant replaced. I have allways received my plants and all the problematic matters were dealt and resolved nicely by the sellers and I can vouch highly for people like KadaKuda and Shamanic plants for example.

Well, having said that, I must say I've never had to deal with someone so shady, elusive and rude... She's literally lying and telling me to fuck off. Seeing how much effort she's putting in "financing her ethnobotanical expedition" and advertising her business/ selling list, I wander how she's never been told off for what I now consider to be theft.

I wont be able to layout our entire correspondence for it is ridiculously long (thats how patient I am)... here is a sample of the timeline and some facts:

April 08 - PM first contact

April 13 - No more answers within the forum (only via email)

Jun 12 - Deal closed (took 2 months to get a quote and set up the deal)

Jun 13 - Money sent " Money sent. Let me know when you send the package so I can envisage its arrival and be there when the postman rings. Best regards, Quetzalt "

Jun13 - Answer " Alrightly, ill let you know!"

Jul 1 - I enquire about the money arrival... Answer "your the one in Portugal right? or what is your address? let me check..." ...I resend address... she says it will be sent next monday...

Jul 20 - " Hi, Haven't received any news yet... It's been quite a long time now.

Can you let me know when you send the package. Thanks. Regards, Quetzalt"

Answer " I sent it about a week ago..."

Jul 24 -" well i got your package back "RETURN TO SENDER" it says.... it seems live plants are not allowed into Peru, however the seeds are...."

...

(What's going on *** Peru? ***)

...

Jul 24 - " Not possible. From over 30 orders from all over the world, I only had problems with 3 packages.

1. Had returned to sender because address was wrong

2. got stuck in customs because they happen to check and found live plants. They then sent me a letter asking for a CITES certificate, which I got and I then received the plants no problem (some had not survived).

3. same as 2 (even though "I" asked for the package to be returned).

So, the worst that can happen to mail orders in portugal is for customs to hold it and request me a certificate (Salvia is not even scheduled here....)

Please show me a picture to read what they wrote on the package. It seems to me that your postal services didn't let it leave the country... "

Jul 26 - " Customs says - no live plants to Portugal"

Jul 28 - " see pic in attachment " (even after multiple requests I never got this attachement)

Jul 29 - " damn you didn't get it??? hang on" (Here of course I get it, I'll hang on for ever...)

Jul 31- " ill figure out a way to get the plants to you somehow"

Jul 31 -"Yeah I'll try it again next Monday."

Jul 31 -"Please confirm my address ... send it on monday the 8th of August.

Ps: you never sent the attachement with the photo. Thanks, Quetzalt)

Jul 31 - " monday the 8th? ill send u the address when i get to the office."

Aug 4 - " Please confirm my address before sending the plants and seeds.Thanks.

ps: send me the attachement you never sent..."

Aug 4 - " oh you never got the pic? ok . you want me to ship aug. 8th right?"

Aug 5 - " Yes, thats right."

At this point I had enough so at the end of the day...

Aug 5 - " Come on, why do you just repeat what I say?

Are you serious or just taking the piss?

I've sent you the money.... I never had to write so many emails to get some feedback from someone... just get the thing done. Come on, more than 30 emails.

Just send me my money back. I've had enough, if you don't close this on the right note, I'm seriously going to talk about what you're really about on the forums. Quetzalt"

Aug 5 - " is this a threat? how about i tell you to fuck off?

don't talk to me like that, ive done nothing but try to help you. your the one trying to get a plant shipped to your that your country restricts.

everyone hates me on the forums anyway, ive received multiple death threats, go the fuck ahead."

Aug 6 -" if you want me to ship your plants Aug. 8th than why are you giving me shit?

...

Aug 6 - " ok well this time I'm going to tell the people at the post office exactly what it is and to ship the damn thing to you and not back to me cause Salvia is legal where I live too! So I don't understand what the post office's problem was before."

(At this time I was already speaking with the moderators... and I get a PM)

Aug 7 - " hey man sup, torsten said I should talk to you? He said your mad at me or something? What's up? Do I owe you a plant or something?

(no reply from me between these 2 PMs, obviously she knows who I am)

Aug 8 - " Torsten said you told him I stole $150 dollars from you? I thought said to ship on monday the 8th?! Man what is your deal?"

Aug 9 - After a long reply of mine she says " i assure you ill get you plants or your money back, don't worry"

Aug 13 - "been really busy, will ship your package very soon!"

(From here onwards, no more replies from her... so I switched to email)

Sept 12 - "Can you please let me know when can I expect the plants and seeds to be sent?"

Sept 12 - " you haven't gotten your plants? whats your address please?"

Sept 12- I resend the address to which the answer is" they should have been there a long time ago."

...

(I haven't heard from her since...)

I would assume that someone with posts, sites and forums all over the internet would be genuine... Of course I might be wrong, this situation might be unique and Circumstantial and I'd like to hear other pleople's reports and experiences with this member.

For me the feeling has been horrible for the whole process was always on the verge of uncertainty, never knowing for sure her real intentions and what to expect... Having to start almost all conversations. Almost as if I needed to beg to get some attention / to know what's the situation. As if she was doing me a favor... All is easy when all the cards are there, once the money is on the other side...

Still I hope this member proves me wrong (I mean, the ideia I have from her now), but its a shame I had to loose my time this way...

Sorry about the extention of this post but its the only way I found to give a clear picture and avoid unecessary future debate/ clarification about the events. From what I gather others here have gone through the same experience. So, in case I'm wrong, I feel inclined to quote someone who was feeling the same way but had it ending in good terms.

"Please don't feel offended, I really didn't want to do this, but you do have allot of my money.

I hope we can work this out like brothers, I don't want there to be anything bad between us. "

Thanks.

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I am sure everyone feels the hurt when there is a conflict! I have had problems with people with whom I have bought crappy things and gave a similar reply when asked about it.

It is possible that it was seized by customs which is a very real scenerio when sending plants internationally.

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if this happens, as far as i know in pretty much all countries. The receiver will be contacted with a warning at least.

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Hi Guys, i am aware of this problem and it needs to be resolved NOW! I know this is going on for a few months and i understand he´s getting the shits now.

Teotz, i dont know what the problem on your side is but you need to get it done now! Both Torsten and i contacted you about this like months ago and we expected this to be done long time ago. This is really way too long and you have to deliver now no matter what the problem is!

Quezalt, i totally understand your not willing to take it anymore. One thing i´d like to add is that its an unwritten code not to post pms in public discussions so this is the only thing i dont like about your approach. Nevertheless, i can understand why you did it and its probably justified under the given circumstances. Apart from that, i know you tried very hard to resolve this privately. bye EG

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the thing i find most surprising is... Teotz is a girl?

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i know im not personally going to send cacti to w.a anymore. two lots ive sent have gone missing in transit, which have resulted in me having to reimburse customers and lose valuable cuts.

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I am sorry to hear this Incognito :(

My opinion is that any one in WA that has plants of any type sent from the east coast does so at their own risk.

The person that sends cuttings or plants should not be held responsible for the loss.

If you are a West Aussie and are buying or trading with the east coast you must accept the fact you could lose out.

All of the risk must be yours and yours only.

I always make sure the other party understands that if the package is lost for whatever reason it is my problem.

If this is not done there will soon be no one left to trade with other than people in our own state.

Cheers

Got

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ive traded with Quetzalt and it was nothing but a pleasure, Teotz certainly needs to sort this shit out ASAP. it sucks haveing money tied up in these kinds of screwed up transactions because i am usually probably broke, and also have no sexy new plant or seedlings to fondle to take the edge off my bankruptness..

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Well, sorry about the PM disclosure, it escaped my attention. Should I remove them?

It's as El presidente Hillbillios says. Even if seized by customs I receive a notification requiring a certificate... I never had a single package missing (only one with the wrong address).

Even giving the benefinit of the doubt, If I was really sent a package and it never got here, I can only see one reason for it, it never left the country of origin. I know this can happen. I know for a fact that Brasil does it, maybe some states in the US do it... This should be obvious to the sender (she never sent me a pic). Anyway, if a sender can´t ship, he should not advertise as such and blame the receiver when he finds out. I saw that she changed her policy and only sends live plants to the US now, maybe because of me, maybe not... anyway, not cool the way I've being treated.

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Hi Quezalt, you can leave em for now. If Torsten has a problem with it, you can still remove em.

According to posts on the other forum Teotz is currently on their long planned South American exhibition.

One more reason he should have sorted this out long ago. Like i said, we were trying to get him to arrange the shipping like one or two months ago. I understand that there can be things in life that complicate or slow down a delivery. But i really dislike how this is going because Quezalt is such a nice person to deal with and i hate to see him not getting what he paid for. When i traded with him, Quezalt sent out two seed letters before he even received one of mine just to make sure im happy with the seeds. Thats how friendly he was to me.

Teotz, i know you are an upstanding person so get this done asap! You know, Quezalt was asking me about you before the trade and i vouched for you and said that you are a honest and trustworthy member so this is really starting to piss me off now. GET IT DONE!

Edited by Evil Genius

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why does everyone continually back teotz with all his indiscretions, from the majority of cooler or leadership group type members they always give him the sunshine of the day, the keys to the city but i cant really see why. Honestly it doesnt bother me one little bit teotz has never affected me negatively or positively but i just want a basic reason why when 90% of the rest of the world doesnt abide by this (mis?) guided loyalty. i got bored one night and in a response to a thread comment it revealled a poll that at the top of my head revealled that most members who voted just think teotzlcoatl is just an organised group or computer program or similar, probably right too now considering all the similar replies stated above repeating themselves.

so what do you know bigwigs, reveal to us why you want to go gardening on a sunday with a computer program?

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why does everyone continually back teotz with all his indiscretions, from the majority of cooler or leadership group type members they always give him the sunshine of the day,

Santiago, no one backed anyones indiscretions and if you´d have the competence to judge that accordingly, you wouldnt make such an injudicious comment to begin with. Unlinke Admins and Mods in other ethnobotanical forums, we actually give a shit if someone is messing up trades systematically. I always have an open ear for anyone who had a bad trade and i really dont know why you try to make this about the so called leadership group type members. We were contacting Teotz numerous times to get it done. Call me crazy but i think we would even do the same for you btw. :P

teotz has never affected me negatively or positively but i just want a basic reason...

So please give me some insight about what your claims are based on then? Hearsay? I never heard about one of another one of teotz trades going bad. If there are more people who had bad experiences, they should have contacted Torsten or me a lot earlier. Like i said, anyone can message me anytime if something happens we should know of. Im happy about it and try to help where i can. You know, though i sometimes feel this weird tingeling in my abdomen, im still not psychic and therefore not able to foresee bad trades. Also i cant buy me a ticket to fly all across the globe to give teotz a ride to the post office. We did all that we could to speed things up but it wasnt working. Honestly. Teotz promised to deliver and he gave his word. That was enough for me. I still believe he´s going to deliver but he might a little bit more pressure. bye EG

Edited by Evil Genius
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no worries evil, should probably not commented but its a reasonable question i think. if the basis is just a loving and nurturing forum then i kind of get that too and like to abide by that as well but if that is the only basis well then i think thats wrong. all im asking is why you, torsten, incognito for starters who are top rungers here continually back teotzcoatl, when other forums and the majority of other members probably dont...........then i would have to assume that the majority of other members are just silly, petty and unjust?? reasonable to ask i hope in a kind way.

Call me crazy but i think we would even do the same for you btw. :P

dude, i knew i you were cool.........i would do the same for you too if i had to, how did you know that i knew that you would do the same as me :lol:

So please give me some insight about what your claims are based on then? Hearsay?

if you mean the claim that 90% of the world doesnt appreciate or like for a better word teotz well then then the claim is baseless and formed only on my own impressions and readings but i would think many a reader would agree with this, wether this is right or wrong is purely speculative and baseless and yes hearsay.

at the end of the day its not my issue but if a new member posting for info has not considered the possible scenario of trading with some computer program group disliked by a wide majority, well then at least this gives them another insight.

good luck quet, hoped some of this helped and you get your goods......and if maybe the members that do know the truth about teotz just stopped protecting some type of virtual trickery well then nobody would give a shit. anyway im heading back under my pillow for some safety. B)

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Dont feel like talking that much about someone who doesnt seem to be here right now. We´ll see as soon as he´s around. You know, at the times you are talking about we had the feeling that every forum was bashing him and we didnt feel like going down the same path. Would have been like beating a dead horse. We try to give everyone a chance; and a place where even the troubled ones are accepted no matter how fucked up their private lifes are. I think that one of the biggest problems in nowadays society is that most people lack a place they can feel home at and thats one of the things we try offer to EVERY Member. As long as they respect this place and its rules, they are very welcome. And one thing you could never say about Teotz is that he didnt respect this place. And everytime he did something wrong, he was moderated or suspended just like anybody else. So i dont think he got special treatment.

And Booting people doesnt solve the problem as they just register again using a diffrent name and the more often they get booted, the more bitter they become. I try to help people finding their path in life...if i have the feeling they are only making trouble because they feel misunderstood. You know, its very easy to get lost sometimes. Some members need more attention than others, thats in the nature of things. Its a diffrent approach and most of the times, its working.

That being said, people need to honor their trades and we´ll get this sorted out. No matter what. bye EG

Edited by Evil Genius
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I heard a story months ago about a trade where the sender made good with extras a while after the trade was supposed to happen, and they apologized for the delay and issues too.

It was Teotz who came through in that case.

This doesn't sound like a good situation, but honestly Teotz is a human being with all the good and bad that comes along with that.

I hope this is resolved quickly, but it does sound a lot like some of the international trades I have heard of that went bad.

It sounds like the whole thing sucks for all people involved.

Edited by Archaea

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I think it is easy to confuse teotz's annoying forgetfulness and otherwise messy approach to things with malice, which I believe he has none and which is why I often support him when he finds himself in a tough spot. I know he does a lot of trades and that his customers are usually happy, which is why this story is so sad. However it is certainly not unexpected. This is the sort of mess teotz creates and the communications posted in the OP certainly show exactly that. It is a pity that teotz got aggressive about the situation as that is not like him, but then again, this seems to coincide with a rough patch he was going through so that might explain some of it.

Quezalt, if you don't have the patience to continue this back an forth game much longer than I suggest you simply ask him for a refund and work on that as the solution. Alternatively, if you can handle the fact that he is not doing this out of malice and you can continue to communicate with him about this then i am sure you will *eventually* get your plant. Once he gets back from his trip I'll get involved again and help you until this is resolved, even if it means restricting his forum access for a while.

I also recommend for international trades to use EMS [uSPS PMI in the USA] as this provides basic tracking which at the very least confirms if an item has been sent and where it is heading.

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I am sorry to hear this Incognito :(

My opinion is that any one in WA that has plants of any type sent from the east coast does so at their own risk.

The person that sends cuttings or plants should not be held responsible for the loss.

If you are a West Aussie and are buying or trading with the east coast you must accept the fact you could lose out.

All of the risk must be yours and yours only.

I always make sure the other party understands that if the package is lost for whatever reason it is my problem.

If this is not done there will soon be no one left to trade with other than people in our own state.

Cheers

Got

i know NOWanyhoo, the trader was a newb, and i didnt know how strict the laws for wa had become, iv sent plants to wa no probs in the past. i lost the tracking number i had so theres no knowing what happened to the last shipment i sent as a replacement for the first that went missing. so i feel obligated to reimburse and learn my lesson. i think in future ill just keep a tracking number somewhere safe and ensure with the buyer that its at their risk. is their anyway that myself as the sender/seller could have quarentine penaltys imposed?

on the teotz thing, i think teotz could be many things, but one thing i think he is not is a theif.

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you mean "she"

Yea, that incognito. "She" called Teotz "He" :scratchhead:

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is their anyway that myself as the sender/seller could have quarentine penaltys imposed?

I believe so, which is why most people who sell plants won't send to WA and Tas without the necessary paperwork.

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With you there GoT. Not had one go missing yet, touch wood. If it did though, I'd take it on the chin. You shouldnt feel responsible incog...

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I have never lost anything sent to me but there is always a risk

If the item is well packaged and sent by normal parcel post you don’t need to put any info on the package other than the address

So if there is no senders address or a bullshit address who is to know who sent it (within AU only).

The person receiving the parcel is the only one taking the risk.

If it is a business then it is a different game the package would have to be sent clean with no links to the business.

Registered post, air bags and express post bags are probably not the best way to send plants or plant material.

That said I have received express post bags with no problems.

Cheers

Got

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i have to print my name and sign a little sticker thAT goes on interstate packages. and the p.o loady knows me so theres no way i could put a fake name.

she is getting suss when people send stuff to mre with my forum/facebook name though lol

again id have no qualms sending to w.a as long as its at buyers risk and i keep a tracking number safely filed so as to assure im not bullshitting in regards to sending stuff off.

Edited by incognito

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could be a good way for interstaters to rip off WA guys/gals too....................."sent it 3 weeks ago honest". the thing is though this has happened in the past to me a few times and the perception is always that WAQIS must have intercepted it, if this is so then where is the little yellow letter that follows a few weeks later?

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