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Nope. My children will be my afterlife. I hope I provide a nice tree with some nutrients when I die.

Edited by botanika

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the one thing that the dead only knows and we will never.

Edited by spudamore

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Is Reincarnation so?

In the ultimate sense, reincarnation is impossible.

There is no past or future, and the idea of birth into a body has no meaning either once or many times. Reincarnation cannot then, be true in any real sense. Our only question should be, is the concept helpful?

And that depends, of course, on what it is used for. If it is used to strengthen the recognition of the eternal nature of life, it is helpful indeed.

Is any other question about it really useful in lightening up the way? Like many other beliefs, it can be bitterly misused. At least such misuse offers preoccupations and perhaps pride in the past. At worst it induces inertia in the present. In between many kinds of folly are possible.

Reincarnation would not, under any circumstances, be the problem to be dealt with now.

If it were responsible for some of the difficulties the individual faces now, his task would still be only to escape them now. If he is laying the groundwork for a future life, he can still work out his salvation now.

To some, there may be comfort in the concept, and if it heartens them its value is self evident. It is certain, however, that the way to salvation can be found by those who believe in reincarnation and those who do not.

The emphasis of this course always remains the same,-it is at this moment that complete salvation is offered you, and it is at this moment you can accept it.

This is still your one responsibility. Atonement might be equated with total escape from the past and total lack of interest in the future.

Heaven is here. There is nowhere else.

Heaven is here now. There is no other time.

"A course in Miracles"

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yep I believe a lot of us have had a taste of the intoductory steps but only the introductory steps and as spudamore says, only the dead will know, but exploration may shed some light and help prepare or inform (may not either) there are infinite possibilities and thats the fun of it all I say.

Regards Seanimus

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my theory is after we die.. we leave our bodies.

but consciousness must go somewhere.

consciousness is basically a form of energy.

therefore that energy must move to another state.

this is where the reincarnation theory fits in.

however we dont know and cant ever know , we can only speculate in theories.

however it seams evident and logical to suggest consciousness does in fact live on.

we just dont understand where it goes and why.

i think when we die there is a bigger journey within for us to explore , this physical world is just the tip of the ice berg , a holiday , a experience.

Edited by 7baz
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7baz that sums up what i belive and i have had some pretty unreal things in my life OBEs ect

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well that is a personal beleif that you have assigned meaning and power to. doesn't mean that it is real or not

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well that is a personal beleif that you have assigned meaning and power to. doesn't mean that it is real or not

 

spud more it depends on how you look at it.

we try to use logic in what we know and understand.

if someone was to say.. hey when you die you zoom off to another dimension and your reborn again and you get to chose what you want to be.... now we would all prob laugh as we have nothing to base this on.

but my theories and belief dont just come from understanding , its also my personal experiences , just as spudfish said , obes etc

i have had my fair share of obe's , nde's , lucid dreaming etc etc

so its a combination of both knowledge and experiences where i try to make a logical conclusion by merging the two together.

this is why and how i believe consciousness continues to live on.

but i cannot comment on why or where it goes because i dont know.

no one knows , we will know when our time is up.

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energy is never lost. if you have unsolved issues or if you hold on to the physical too much the spirit will want to hold onto that what it knows. If it only knows the physical it will automatically direct itself to the physical and try to reincarnate. depending on the degree of attatchment that will determine what part of us manifests itself,... we can come back as a whole,.. we can manifest in our childeren or even in people close to us,... and it is even possible to linger as a spirit.

mediatators who understand this know that the aim is to be free of attachment and will therefore familiarize/idenify themself more with the spirit part of themselves.

the degree of attachment will determine to what degree your energy is expressed in the physical.

the bardo state = the state in which we are in a transitional period, which is what we could call an afterlife state.

there are people that find non attachment in the bardo state and therefore do not have to (incarnate) manifest in the physical again. So depending on your degree of your consciousness you will be able to experience the bardo state consiously.

The bardo state is a state of visions. it will reflect the dynamic of your consiousness in the spirit state. In other words,... if you are a conscious that you are in the bardo state you might be able to pass through it with some control.(this all depends on howmuch self control you have) If you do not have this self control the experience CAN be less then pleasant.

The more self restraint we have and the more clearly we see through meditation,... the more free and more pleasant the LIFE AND THE BARDO STATE will be experienced.

Meditation is the best gift we can give ourselves.

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it exists.

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energy is never lost. if you have unsolved issues or if you hold on to the physical too much the spirit will want to hold onto that what it knows. If it only knows the physical it will automatically direct itself to the physical and try to reincarnate. depending on the degree of attatchment that will determine what part of us manifests itself,... we can come back as a whole,.. we can manifest in our childeren or even in people close to us,... and it is even possible to linger as a spirit.

mediatators who understand this know that the aim is to be free of attachment and will therefore familiarize/idenify themself more with the spirit part of themselves.

the degree of attachment will determine to what degree your energy is expressed in the physical.

the bardo state = the state in which we are in a transitional period, which is what we could call an afterlife state.

there are people that find non attachment in the bardo state and therefore do not have to (incarnate) manifest in the physical again. So depending on your degree of your consciousness you will be able to experience the bardo state consiously.

The bardo state is a state of visions. it will reflect the dynamic of your consiousness in the spirit state. In other words,... if you are a conscious that you are in the bardo state you might be able to pass through it with some control.(this all depends on howmuch self control you have) If you do not have this self control the experience CAN be less then pleasant.

The more self restraint we have and the more clearly we see through meditation,... the more free and more pleasant the LIFE AND THE BARDO STATE will be experienced.

Meditation is the best gift we can give ourselves.

 

nicely articulated, I really resonated with what you wrote. I have similar beliefs, but have not looked too deeply into buddhism as it sounds like you have.

I also feel that the spirit and living worlds are existing in some sort of symbiotic relationship. I have had the conviction under certain states of mind that some human spirits (those that linger close to the world of the living) are `supported' by living organisms, especially forests. I visualise these two worlds as parts of a single whole, the living world being like leaves and branches on a tree swaying in the open air, while the spirit world being like the roots of the tree under the earth. For the tree to grow, both are critical.

definitely feel that our experience of the afterlife is shaped by our mortal lives. psychedelic experiences, mushrooms in particular, seem to teach a certain set of values that ultimately could be interpreted as a way of living that best serves life. humility, respect for all life forms, courage, love etc. perhaps the plants are interested in showing us the path to the afterlife, as they live in symbiosis with the spirits that dwell there.

Edited by kalika
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"I don't believe consciousness is generated in the brain any more than television programs are made inside my TV. The box is too small."

- Terence McKenna

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In the ultimate sense, reincarnation is impossible.

There is no past or future, and the idea of birth into a body has no meaning either once or many times. Reincarnation cannot then, be true in any real sense.

 

Logic as a form of linear statements, such as if then is rooted in linear time scales, thus if there is no past or future then logic cannot be true in any real sense....

I am not advocating re-incarnation but it cannot be refuted by the lack of linear time, many texts which advocate re-incarnation also advocate non-linear time and state that there is no past or future but instead speak of dimensional aspects of singularities.

Perhaps as a simple concept re-incarnation is itself problematic, this phrase can mean several things and is not always employed in a consistent manner. Some speak of the re-incarnation of self as a transference of atman or spirit, others speak of it as consequence of thought itself that the concept of I as self begets a concept of serial incarnations of perceived self, in this manner the latter implies that self lacks continuity in a linear sense, something rather apt for a consideration of time as a constant singularity with multidimensional aspects.

Moreover though, re-incarnation presupposes in most every sense that an aspect of awe exists inherently in the universe which begets self perception though manifestation of forms and essences including all aspects of energy, dimensionality, physicality etc, as well as in terms of consciousness. To observe a manifestation of undifferentiated potential as differentiation of form shows multiple incarnate aspects of the inherent source, which in and of itself is by definition without characteristics. This multiplicity of incarnation of the source can be thought of as re-occurring because of it being plural, thus in this sense re-incarnation is itself the serial manifestation of energy as mass and matter itself, as well as time space.

All is self, so to speak, is a form of the doctrine of re-incarnation, this does not mean that self imposes dimensionality or is deterministic, rather this means that all is itself entity and our aspect of entity is not something biological in origination but is inherent to all matter and phenomena.

There is nothing in scientific theory that contradicts the doctrine of incarnation of energy as form and property, incarnation is itself required for re-incarnation and re-incarnation does not distinguish itself from incarnation in any profound sense. A refutation of incarnation itself is fundamental to a refutation of re-incarnation.

This does not mean that continuity exists regarding sense based consciousness, rather the opposite is frequently taught, that sense based self is an illusion and that real self is unmoving and beyond the perception of the mind, being itself mind. In an analogy an eye does not see itself to see, nor does the mind perceive itself to perceive. Memory is not self and thus the transference of self does not entail the transference of memory or persona, the doctrine of re-incarnation thus does not entail a transference of memories or personality any more than a molecule of water recalls the shape of a snowflake it was part of before it melted in the sun.

I believe in an afterlife in a sense, but not in heaven and hell or religious aspects of afterlife that are commonplace.

Edited by Archaea
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Nope. My children will be my afterlife. I hope I provide a nice tree with some nutrients when I die.

 

its even better than that. by feeding bacteria you will improve soil structure, making future nutrients more available for the tree.

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i believe it will be like it was before i was born as far as consciousness is concerned, so no not really an afterlife i suppose.

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i believe it will be like it was before i was born as far as consciousness is concerned, so no not really an afterlife i suppose.

 

as in no brain, so no consciousness? yeah I'm not too sure my individual consciousness or ego will remain after death, but rather the part of me that is everything will remain.

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I believe that the only way for one to live on in form after "death" is to live on within other beings.

If I knew a great person, and I aspired to carry on their work, their ideals and their qualities - then just as Theseus's ship can be said to remain after each plank is replaced, as long as it remains a ship, and remains Theseus's - then I too can live on in form.

If you believe that your consciousness remains exactly as it is, but disembodied after your death - then you must posit that energy is infinite. For it takes energy to store information (which consciousness is). All the consciousnesses of beings before and after, if they were not recycled, would require ever-greater amounts of energy to be stored separately as they pass into and out of physical existence. Alternatively, then these consciousnesses would be removing energy from the system, to be allowed to float around for all eternity at their whim.

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anyone seen the movie flatliners ?

Flatliners is a 1990 American thriller film starring Kiefer Sutherland, Julia Roberts, Kevin Bacon, William Baldwin and Oliver Platt as medical students using physical science in an attempt to find out if there's anything out there beyond death by conducting clandestine experiments with near-death experiences.

id be keen to guinea pig this one :wink:

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If you believe that your consciousness remains exactly as it is, but disembodied after your death - then you must posit that energy is infinite. For it takes energy to store information (which consciousness is). All the consciousnesses of beings before and after, if they were not recycled, would require ever-greater amounts of energy to be stored separately as they pass into and out of physical existence. Alternatively, then these consciousnesses would be removing energy from the system, to be allowed to float around for all eternity at their whim.

 

as cool as this thought is, it requires assumptions.

i don't think your actual personality lives on, that would beyond hellish, living with your earthly human persona for eternity. anyway, much of what makes up our personality would be unnecessary to exist in a subtle dimension, i rather think those traits would prevent you from existing in a subtler dimension which could explain why human experience tends to be limited to the obvious dimensions. smaller things fit through smaller holes ;)

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i go to heaven, i know that; and anyone who thinks i'm: "saint ignatius of loyola" is what i like to call a: SILLY PIGY NERD SUCKA!

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who hear belives in an afterlife

 

perhaps our DNA is our way of reincarnation. I am unable to recall any previos lives, even when tripping out to the max.

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