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Halcyon Daze

Climate Scientists Recieve Death Threats

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^^^^oh well, I'll take comfort in knowing that I'm with the vast majority on this one....http://www.theage.co...0626-1glp4.html

Record number oppose price on carbon: poll

Overall, the number of Australians who believe the country should take urgent steps to address the problem ''even if this involves significant costs'' has plunged from 68 per cent in 2006 to 41 per cent today.

Advertisement: Story continues belowThe poll of Australian's opinion on international issues by the Lowy Institute in Sydney also shows combating climate change has continued to drop among issues ranked as priorities for Australia - with only 46 per cent seeing it as ''important'' compared with 75 per cent in 2007.

The number of people willing to pay an extra $10 each month for energy fell to 19 per cent - down from 25 per cent last year.

 

Seems the science of booga booga is getting shorter on devotees.....but you hang on to this religion of yours. Gives you a glorious purpose in life...

climate-gate-cartoon-2.jpg

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Its a shame tho, that the majority also support,

"Protecting Australian workers, stopping the spread of nuclear weapons and combating terrorism remain the major public priorities in world affairs."

So it still seems that the war on terror pulls more heart strings.

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but you hang on to this religion of yours. Gives you a glorious purpose in life...

Ha! That's the pot calling the kettle black.

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This post is for the benefit of third parties reading this thread, and not for Hutch, as Hutch himself has admitted that he is not interested in learning science, and anyway Tripsis makes a very good point at post number 32 about trying to argue with idiots...

At post number 47 Hutch quotes Bob Carter as evidence that the world is not warming. The trouble is that Carter is a well-recognised first-order crank who uses fake, sciency-sounding arguments that are in fact complete pseudoscientific tosh. Hutch has had this pointed out to him on more than one occasion, but as he is hard of learning he has not been able to understand that his much-vaunted dissenting hero is in reality just a grubby snake-oil salesman.

For anyone wanting to learn why Carter is completely misrepresenting the science, Deltoid's series on him is a good place to start. The most recent article on Lying Bob's nonsense can be found at The Conversation. They're worth reading, because once one does so one will see exactly how Carter is banking on idiots being idiots, so that he can fool them and sway them to his cause.

Of course, Hutch will sputter and pop because I've been unkind about his references, but if he wants to defend his use of Carter, he only has to explicitly state which of Carter's pronouncements are (according to Hutch) correct, and we can then explore whether Carter's claims actually stand up to scrutiny or not. As I said above I've previously addressed the crap that Carter likes to spread around, so it's not like Hutch hasn't already been tapped on the shoulder.

So far, whenever I've asked Hutch to get down to the science he goes all greased-eel and wriggles away, but maybe this time he'll have the guts to stand by a specific claim or two and defend them...

Or he can just keep on relying on alien-got-my-girlfriend's-grandmother-pregnant tabloids and random cartoons as his 'scientific' evidence, and thus continue to leave a legacy documenting, for his grandkids' benefit, what a prat he was when it was time to actually do something to protect their futures.

[Edit to add link]

Edited by WoodDragon
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The sense of urgency is thought to have dropped in the mainstream public since the drought broke, The recent flooding is probably just adding to confusion,. However, climate models predict an increase in both droughts and floods and an increase in their severity. We will definitely need those de-sal plants before too long. Next time we need them, it will be for 5 years straight and we'll be glad we have them.

Climate change is well under way and it's getting more urgent every day, despite the latest polls.

It's not an easy thing to explain to the masses, especially when so much mis-information is being spread. People are getting confused by the mis-information but the true science shows things are getting worse than expected.

That's where you need a government who's willing to make the tough decisions.

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Politics and finances aside, does anybody really think human technological enhancements haven't damaged the Earth in any way?? Better something done than nothing, surely?

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How many of you pro-carbon tax people also supported Rudd's mining tax? Just wondering...

Btw,.. even if HAARP has been misapplied,... i think climate change is another and even bigger problem,..... here is an interesting report. http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=1831

a leading climate scientist's report.

 

You don't believe that the "misapplication" of HAARP could create climate change? \

Politics and finances aside, does anybody really think human technological enhancements haven't damaged the Earth in any way?? Better something done than nothing, surely?

 

Sorry, but since when has economic equal liberty been a top priority of any Australian government?

Seriously, if this government really cared about the Earth, then they would be doing a hell of a lot more. Mainstreaming Tesla rods and Hemp foods for one example...

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Yes you are right that science and technology can be applied for malicious purposes but in a democracy if these gains are seen as outweighing the future fall out then the people generally vote for their own self intrest and wait until its too late and the proof is effecting them personally. I'm all for voting for a real cost pricing on our predicted impact on the future environment and our children. I believe that people are resilient and will adapt fairly easily especially when we have applied reductions rather then forced restrictions due to environmental degradation.

I believe that given the number of people now inhabiting the planet, realistically we must all take some type of unified approach to utilizing the use of the planets resouces. Pissing off and doing your own thing is not going to help you for long. The entire world surface would likely be cleared if we were all to take on a subsistence lifestyle. And if the system that you are ignoring collapses you veggies won't stay untrammeled for long, that much history can tell us. Whether you like to admit it or not we all have a huge investment (around 7billion people) in the current system no matter how fucked it is.

I think a real step forward is a globally unifiable method for real cost pricing. I'll leave the experts to figure out how though, I'll just vote for it.

 

We don't really live in a democracy, our interests are never represented; merely exploited during voting time. I also believe we should all take "some type of unified approach to utilizing the use of the planets resources" I just don't feel I can really leave it to the "experts" to figure out how, ecologists perhaps, not economists and most definitely not politicians. We need to be "Pissing off and doing [our] own thing" together without the middle men giving us their orders from our economic masters, our unseen yet verily believed in gods; worshiped with every transaction.

Ideally I imagine the solution is anarchy with a heavy focus on sustainability, so true cost economics can have a role, IF there is a free market not manipulated by an interest based currency. This simple mathematical scam we all seem to avoid really does seem to fuck everyones shit up and twist their priorities, every person fighting for survival within this sinking ship of a system is destined failure with any kind of economic "solution" given to us by these parasitic politicians. Poly-ticks is the new spelling from now on.

The system is so insidious that we would rather protect that before our own welfare and survival (based on the belief that forced regulation is the only way to have cooperation), no fucking way do I trust another tax, this is not about avoiding responsibility, I think the only way to take responsibility is anarchy, governments have long passed their used by date, we should've woken up by now!

I am optimistic that we can somehow figure out an autonomy from the parasites with a fair economy and common sense common law, not some pirates that have taken the system hostage (with our cooperation mind you, we're still relying on our nanny state big brother betters to solve all our problems), which will avoid all the cluster fuck involved with mobilising towards something we can all agree on; the fact we gotta start acting in harmony with nature. ...With all the right experts on board, not motivated by academic circle jerks and greed, that's the idea with anarchy is that there is transparency and corruption is rooted out.

It's an ideal to be able to trust in common unity (community) without needing evermore regulations that strangle all possibility of the miraculous spontaneous evolution we all need, no way will the current system provide this ideal of personal responsibility and collective cooperation when everybody is so disillusioned by it!

Even though we know the system is destined (designed even!) to fail, it seems safe and cozy here in prison, better than trusting in my community who've also been bought up in a system that teaches them to be as self serving and mistrusting of each other as I. There's a massive battle ahead of us to change the system if we still think within its rules, like only its rules apply.

@Hutch whether or not you believe in AGW (I too am undecided, I mean volcanoes right?...) we have obviously long ago avoided our responsibility to live in harmony with nature, blame our parasitic economic memes or general ignorance, we should at least agree that we could do all we can to try to re-balance the natural harmony, global warming or not our environment is fucked. I know you know this, I'm just trying to find some common ground in this unnecessary conflict among people who all want to save the world - apparently, I mean why else would we all get so worked up?

...Fuck this tax we need anarchy and we just need to work together, simple as that, an egalitarian system will get all the right "experts" on board. Currency in its current form is an evil vampiric entity that infects all with its bite, we all need more blood and are delusioned by the thirst, all in an insidiously subtle way we protect the sanctity of the system, and its economic "solutions" handed to us by our divine rulers over any kind of autonomy.

Economic self interest is not going to be the solution to economic self interest, our whole motivation and priorities are upside down. Taxes and inflation have us dancing for our money when our money should be dancing for us. Currency is the tool of a free society, human beings are the tools of currency in this one.

Something to consider to decrease our carbon footprint and disconnect ourselves from dependence on these really ineffective resources like fossil fuels is perhaps... *ahem* HEMP! biofuels plus about anything else you could need, oh yeah and massive plantations that grow easy as all fuck might be an idea to absorb all of that nasty co2.

...

A quick list of science and technology that isn't nice and we in a "democracy" accept:

*Food additives such as aspartame plus I guess the technology of making really non-nutritious mass produced food with everything containing soy or corn starch!

*Depleted Uranium and guided missiles, the ever lurking threat of nuclear war. War in general is a massive technological feat!

*Mandatory fluoridation of our water supply for our dental safety.

*Mining and industry and marketing selling us pretty useless things in exchange for our everlasting soul as we give up all our free will :devil: - There is a science to mind control or psyops.

*The very likely(imho) but easily dismissed threat of chemical warfare en masse with chemtrails and the weather manipulation possibilities of the technology. A new type of "silent weapon" that can nonetheless hold entire countries at ransom (climate false flag?), and help people make a killing -Read conspiracies on foreknowledge and preparation for Haiti "charity" fund raiser and HAARP instrument data being deleted for the hours of the disaster/attack. Political blackmail with Russia, pretty much every environmental anomaly nowadays has a HAARP conspiracy attached which may seem a bit convenient for an "AGW denier" to readily accept as a reason yet the money trail also suggests foreknowledge of a lot of these disasters ... There've been a few radar anomalies with the Australian BOM, list goes on.

I'd say our co2 emissions need to go hand in hand with cuts in this spraying and disclosure on the benefits and dangers of weather manipulation and what in the hell is going on!

Edited by The Dude
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Dude I agree that the current system is ultimately vampiric and it has never made much sense to me but within a democracy no matter how disfuncional and deluded, the only way forward is together. If everyone doesn't have the same ideals and are at the same point in social evolution an anarchic system is bound to fail. If you are judged by your peers in a communal court you would like to hope they have the best intrests of the whole community at heart or they would be easily misled by the stronger party leaving you with little avenue for appeal. And backing the stronger party may be what is best for the community, even if they wronged an individual to get there. Then there is the maintenance of health, transport and other public infrustructure. How would these services be payed for, through taxes or fees and tolls? What is to stop people that don't have the entire community at heart from trying to corrupt these systems to further their on self intrests. Or other folk out of the 20 + million, missing out on these resources entirely.

A globally unifiable approach to resource use as you agree is the right way forward. Under an anarchic system how will we achieve this unifiable approach with other nations who may not have our best interests at heart. Which individual is intrusted to undertake the international negotiations to further this ideal and what will motivate them to take on this responsibility with so much at stake? How will they know that what they negotiate is best for the entire community and what if it isn't? Do they continue to make the wrong decisions? If other counties collapse how will you prevent them from migrating on mass and if they do how will you encourage them to maintan the anarchic ideal?

The world and even our own communities are very diverse places being made up of folk with many different ideals within the sphere of social evolution. Gone are the days when we are all at the same point in that evolution. Social systems which rely on the entire world being highly socially evolved all at once are in my opinion domed to a grand idealic failure. But that is just my opinion.

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This post is for the benefit of third parties reading this thread, and not for Hutch, as Hutch himself has admitted that he is not interested in learning science, and anyway Tripsis makes a very good point at post number 32 about trying to argue with idiots...

At post number 47 Hutch quotes Bob Carter as evidence that the world is not warming. The trouble is that Carter is a well-recognised first-order crank who uses fake, sciency-sounding arguments that are in fact complete pseudoscientific tosh. Hutch has had this pointed out to him on more than one occasion, but as he is hard of learning he has not been able to understand that his much-vaunted dissenting hero is in reality just a grubby snake-oil salesman.

For anyone wanting to learn why Carter is completely misrepresenting the science, Deltoid's series on him is a good place to start. The most recent article on Lying Bob's nonsense can be found at The Conversation. They're worth reading, because once one does so one will see exactly how Carter is banking on idiots being idiots, so that he can fool them and sway them to his cause.

Of course, Hutch will sputter and pop because I've been unkind about his references, but if he wants to defend his use of Carter, he only has to explicitly state which of Carter's pronouncements are (according to Hutch) correct, and we can then explore whether Carter's claims actually stand up to scrutiny or not. As I said above I've previously addressed the crap that Carter likes to spread around, so it's not like Hutch hasn't already been tapped on the shoulder.

So far, whenever I've asked Hutch to get down to the science he goes all greased-eel and wriggles away, but maybe this time he'll have the guts to stand by a specific claim or two and defend them...

Or he can just keep on relying on alien-got-my-girlfriend's-grandmother-pregnant tabloids and random cartoons as his 'scientific' evidence, and thus continue to leave a legacy documenting, for his grandkids' benefit, what a prat he was when it was time to actually do something to protect their futures.

 

Deep breath Woody...Your ranting like fuck mate...one second its not for me to read and then your asking me to respond...which one is it mate? Take out the word bob carter and replace it with IPCC....pretty well spot on summary there Woody....Just as blinkered as me...

Its the IPCC that has trashed the science, not Bob Carter....did I splutter enough?

I thought you liked my little cartoons....oh well...back to the "alien-got-my-girlfriend's-grandmother-pregnant tabloids".....

note to self: Bob Carter really pushes Woodys buttons.........cool.gif

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@Hutch whether or not you believe in AGW (I too am undecided, I mean volcanoes right?...) we have obviously long ago avoided our responsibility to live in harmony with nature, blame our parasitic economic memes or general ignorance, we should at least agree that we could do all we can to try to re-balance the natural harmony, global warming or not our environment is fucked. I know you know this, I'm just trying to find some common ground in this unnecessary conflict among people who all want to save the world - apparently, I mean why else would we all get so worked up?

 

Agree...I have never once said I am not for the environment and I like to think I'm doing my best here to live that way...this unfortunately for me is no longer even about global warming and hasn't been for ages. Its about sticking it up Woodys arse at every opportunity.....he knows that.....and he enjoys big noting himself so he plays along....I have very little time for over educated, smart arses who like to belittle people to prove their points. He lost me long ago for just that.

Edit: Somebody needs to be offering an opposing view to this debate and granted I am not the one. It would be good to see someone with some debating skills present the other side and there is another side whether Woody likes it or not. I know your out there so come forth. Don't be scared....Woody is all hot air and the foot soldiers don't have to much to offer but giggles and boots...The science is not settled and how could it be?

Step out of the shadows....

wanker.jpg

Edited by hutch

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Its great to have a few more peeps express themself here.

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You don't believe that the "misapplication" of HAARP could create climate change? \

 

Good addition Syncro, but we covered this in some detail in the Global Cooling thread. I think there is more than enough reason to pin a climate change thread somewhere, its going to be a long undecided discussion that goes in waves of interest.

I think there is definately something to HAARP, I have been looking into haarp for probably 8 to 10 years. I have a book here called , angels don't play this HAARP. I also have the executive summary that shows all the interested parties.

Funny

Most of them are military!

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...so the downfalls of an anarchic (or agorist) society is that we cannot trust ourselves? Which means that endless regulations by governments (who we also can't trust) is the only thing we can trust to save us from ourselves.

I'm sure that when we were much less consciously evolved back in the day we didn't have so much manipulation in tribal societies, leaching off people didn't get you nowhere, it would have you excommunicated. Sure there would be a chief who would have a useful role and more power, no money lent at interest though... Now we take the leaches word that if it weren't for them there would be rampant chaos. If it weren't for them we wouldn't all be in a state of artificial scarcity and disempowerment and we might have some self-determination and not fall into a state of panicked fear and violence as a survival trip. Our only survival option is to throw off the shackles collectively and work as a community, we have global communication now so we can organise this!

We only need them now because of them selling us the idea we needed them before. We only need them now because we needed them then, it's a catch22.

Violence creates fear, fear creates control, control = violence. Violent weather being useful for these ends as well. In this system, take back control and you reduce violence.

There can be taxes, within a voluntary cooperation system that are audited by the public and spent where they are meant to be. A road tax would be spent on fixing roads, simple, if there is no need for the extra revenue in a certain area the tax is eliminated. Total transparency eliminates corrupt individuals. I don't like that we don't know where our tax money goes now, let alone any new scheme they've got to invest our money in projects we are all oblivious of.

I mean why can no official tell us of the uses of HAARP even though it is on the record as a weather manipulation tool, why do all of our representatives laugh at our genuine concern over chemtrails, calling us idiots that cannot recognise a contrail. Why do we still trust in their overbearingly restrictive and suffocating form of compassion instead of our own common unity as brothers and sisters with the divine right to live freely?

You cannot fix a sinking ship with band-aid solutions, nay their solutions put more holes in the ship, every part of this system is designed to slowly drown us, social darwinists would call this survival of the fittest; we believed in their bullshit and must be too unevolved to have self determination.

Trillionaires of the world

"The few who can understand the system will be either so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favours, that there will be no opposition from that class, while, on the other hand, that great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that Capital derives from the system, will bear its burden without complaint and, perhaps, without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests."

Italics mine.

For this reason no solution brought to us under this system could be beneficial to our interests, everything the system does is to gain more control, quite simple really. Even though we've bought into the BS long ago it doesn't mean we cannot just drop it all right now! It is the only solution, sure we've got 7billion people worth of investment into the system and the momentum that goes with it, the titanic had a lot of momentum crashing into an iceberg. It's a good idea to slow the fuck down, and that doesn't mean abandoning money and its' ability to mobilise the masses towards collective action, for we all need our daily bread. That doesn't mean abandoning science and technology and the advice of experts and the benefits they bring, it just means ridding ourselves of the virus that's infected each of these programs.

A co2 tax will not motivate green technology, that requires investment in radically changing industry and infrastructure; it's cheaper to pass the costs, it will just make us all poorer. The motivation cannot be greed for it is that minority of psychopathic elites who are masters at thinking this way that have their blinkers on to any novel idea that could save us, if it's not about control they just cannot conceptualise it. It must be us that saves the day, we have the power of numbers to get things done other than simply giving up more of our money/freedom/self-determination.

...this unfortunately for me is no longer even about global warming and hasn't been for ages. Its about sticking it up Woodys arse at every opportunity.....he knows that.....and he enjoys big noting himself so he plays along....I have very little time for over educated, smart arses who like to belittle people to prove their points. He lost me long ago for just that.

 

So you have little time for his type yet you must stick it to him at every opportunity? It seems you're acting compulsively against him because he's pressed some of your buttons. I maintain that labels and ad-hominems are not real arguments and find some of WD's "points" a bit weak for that reason, yet if all you're keen on doing is provoking a reaction from him it is little wonder he calls you names.

if the system that you are ignoring collapses you veggies won't stay untrammeled for long, that much history can tell us.

 

The idea is that my veggies are the communities veggies and their veggies are mine, maybe not in a directly shared ownership communist way, there may as well be trade. The idea though is that we all start producing so that we don't need to steal off each other when the shiteth hiteth the faneth, the idea is to get everyone out of the room first, where right now we are utterly dependent on remaining here.

Dude I agree that the current system is ultimately vampiric and it has never made much sense to me but within a democracy no matter how disfuncional and deluded, the only way forward is together.

 

I agree that the only way to make it out of this desperate situation is together with global cooperation, I disagree that we're in a democracy and I think we're right on the edge of a precipice now where many would like us to move forward together like the lemmings they see us as. :P

...If everyone doesn't have the same ideals and are at the same point in social evolution an anarchic system is bound to fail...

...The world and even our own communities are very diverse places being made up of folk with many different ideals within the sphere of social evolution. Gone are the days when we are all at the same point in that evolution. Social systems which rely on the entire world being highly socially evolved all at once are in my opinion domed to a grand idealic failure. But that is just my opinion.

 

I guess ideals like hope and change are what got Obama elected, we need action not ideals so I'll try not to be so idealistic.

Yes we are all different, yet I still trust in our common unity. Everyone has the potential for peace and unity (as well as violence and seperation), regardless of how highly socially evolved they are, it is a choice. Who do you trust?

"Such oppressive security measures are only necessary when wealth and power are distributed so unfairly that human beings cannot coexist in peace."

"Left to itself a state of disorder and inequity returns to equilibrium; our job is to perpetuate this one indefinitely"

"in suspicion we trust"

Again the problems of not trusting others to act fairly evapourate in a system where our lives aren't fixated around the almighty dollar and self serving and are instead about serving the community born out of love for our fellowship as humans rather than our fear of our own shadows.

So what if Australia becomes Anarchist (wow, what a dream) that won't make global cooperation any harder, the last summit didn't exactly reach a consensus. Voluntary cooperation is the only way to cooperate because nobody can force the others to play fair, government regulations like I've laboured on and on about only further the projection of mistrust.

Free-Media, Free-Market, Free-Education, Free-Prophylactics and all our problems start to fix themselves without any need for "help" from the vampires.

Peace y'all, I think you're all wrong, but that's all right! :lol:

Edited by The Dude
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Agree 100%, Dude. :wink:

If anarchy can't work, then how do you explain your life? Surely you didn't get where you are by simply following commands?

What we have now is not order. It is dis-order. How can you not see that?

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So you have little time for his type yet you must stick it to him at every opportunity? It seems you're acting compulsively against him because he's pressed some of your buttons. I maintain that labels and ad-hominems are not real arguments and find some of WD's "points" a bit weak for that reason, yet if all you're keen on doing is provoking a reaction from him it is little wonder he calls you names.

Yes, you may be right...I can admit he pressed some of my buttons earlier on. Maybe I have too much time on my hands. I do take a perverse pleasure in feeding him....and I get a woody every time I feel his frustration and anger with me. cool.gif I don't have any issue with him calling me names...not any more...Its the arrogant smugness I despise but I will try and keep to the subject at hand....

I think there should be dedicated thread for this subject.....

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I agree dude that the current system is sick and needs a major attitude adjustment. I have felt it first hand and nearly had a breakdown after working in the public service for 3 years. I was working remote and under investigation with the entire system from the top down against me. After 6 months of this I resigned and the next day went to the investigation. I read the entire public service act and turned the whole investigation against them. I'm pretty much banned from ever working for that government ever again as I fucked their entire hierarchy up hardcore.

Now I work in the private sector helping people understand and work within the system however stupid it may seem. I'm entrusted with as much autonomy as I require to undertake my job effectively and I'm well respected by my boss. He even put me on indeffinite leave at half pay to deal with a family problem. So I'm already half way there while working within the system, now if the system will just meet me half way I'll be laughing. Knowing though what I do about the system and the twisted folks that get off on operating it I will likely only have reason to smile.

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I do take a perverse pleasure in feeding him....and I get a woody every time I feel his frustration and anger with me. I don't have any issue with him calling me names...not any more...Its the arrogant smugness I despise but I will try and keep to the subject at hand....

Hutch, I am permanently amazed by your inability to cogently and scientifically express why you and your denialist sources are right, and why tens of thousands of the world's scientists are not only wrong, but are perpetrating a global conspiracy of fraud. I am however not frustrated with you as an individual, nor am I especially angry at you. There's simply no point, because what God didn't put there man can't.

If you think that I'm smug, that's your issue and not mine. I don't feel smug, and the fact that it's so difficult to get those who deny climate science to actually enter into a rational discussion about why they reflexively disagree with objective evidence, only makes it less likely that I would ever be smug about this subject. I am however confident about my commentary on climatological matters discussed here, because I have an intimate and a long understanding of the process that is used to derive it, and I because am familiar with much of the relevant knowledge that has been gained by my professional colleagues. Basically, I know what I'm talking about, and you don't, and I can spot the climatological pseudoscientific crap from across the room.

Seriously, if you're confronted - and affronted - by my challenges of your conclusions, you should step to the plate and investigate why I make those challenges. Not doing so is either intellectual laziness, or avoidance of facing the truth.

And you say that it "is no longer even about global warming and hasn't been for ages". Well, if that's the case then you're posting on the wrong thread, because this thread is about climate science and climate scientists. It's not about carbon tax and whether that is the best way to reduce emissions... and if that is your beef then you should be doubly keen to actually understand the climatology, because you can't objectively criticise the economic response if you don't understand the science upon which it's based.

And once again I'll point out that the political/social/economic response to the science is a different matter to the science itself. If a cardiac surgeon tells you that you have to have a (possibly costly) heart operation to save your life, and if you're rational, you don't claim that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Sure, you can get a second (and third) opinion - from other surgeons, and not from the pizza boy - but trying to say that cardiology is bunkum doesn't change the fact of having a dicky ticker. It especially doesn't make sense if you're doing so because you're too tight to pay for the remedy, and if not paying now will only make it more costly in the future. And it's bizarre behaviour if having the treament early actually means that you can earn more income doing things that you otherwise can't/won't do now.

If you don't want to pay to fix what is a real problem, just say so. It'd be more intellectually honest than trying to disparage the science just because you don't like its evidence and the conclusions. Shooting the messenger might make you feel better, but it doesn't change the message. If you don't agree with the science you should, for once, actually try to address specifics instead of spam-dumping heresay from non-scientists, and bagging the people who try to pull you up when you do.

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Hutch tries to make himself the focus of every climate discussion. He just likes to be the center of attention. Every single post it's all LOOK AT ME! ME, ME, ME! While never hesitating to use base language at anyone who doesn't agree with him. He talks shit and I get tired of his constant push for the spotlight.

His behavior sums up that of most chronic denialists these days... Empty Vessels!

(Sorry Hutchie-boy, someone had to say it)

edit.

Don't get me wrong, I love constructive debate. That's what I'm hoping to engage in here. But it would be nice not to have to deal with someone who speaks a constant flow of shit like some busted sewer pipe, ruining things for everyone.

Edited by Halcyon Daze
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I do take a perverse pleasure in feeding him....and I get a woody every time I feel his frustration and anger with me.

Words spewing forth from a juvenile mind, if ever there was one. :wink:

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Somebody needs to be offering an opposing view to this debate and granted I am not the one. It would be good to see someone with some debating skills present the other side and there is another side whether Woody likes it or not. I know your out there so come forth. Don't be scared....Woody is all hot air and the foot soldiers don't have to much to offer but giggles and boots...The science is not settled and how could it be?

Step out of the shadows....

 

Good idea Hutch, leave it up to the over educated experts to discover the truths within the climate science debate.

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dancingbaby.gif

 

synchromesh, dancing babies will only get you so far in a thread.

 

 

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That kid is gonna lead a future revolution goddammit! :)

Edited by synchromesh

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