kadakuda

Where does kratom grow in Thailand?

63 posts in this topic

I am heading to northern thai/laos area this summer and would liek to seek out some kratom plants. I am a little familiar with the habitat now after seeing it in borneo, but looking for any suggestions on any known "areas" it is known to grow. One place we are going is "4000 islands" in southern Laos.

We will possibly be going to many different spots on the Mekong, depending which way the wind blows when we get there. For sure Thai, cambodia and laos. Possibly china (yunnan) (and Vietnam if there are other areas there that you know of). this river, at least around the laos area looks like a neat spot from pics and google earth. but are eager to hear of any other hot spots that may be useful.

Our borneo kratom collections were a complete failure, sadly, so i really dont want to screw this one up!

edit: if there are any Uni students or workers ehre that have pub access, i would GREATLY appreciate if you were able to get a pdf or similar copy of

Ridsdale CE. 1978 A revision of Mitragyna and Uncaria (Rubiaceae). Blumea. 24. 43-100.

Edited by kadakuda

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Maybe veering off topic if you're purely interested in botanical study, but for recreational activity If you are in Laos, it's worth heading down to Vang Vieng for a few days, and seeking out a place called "The Island" (it's not really an island), a smattering of lawless bars out of town that kick on through the night and into the morning. If there's any kratom available in Laos, that's where it will be.

This is a typical menu:

wpid459-MG_0331.jpg

Edited by Psylo Dread

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Dont know any locations or anything, but if you have a link to the journal I may be able to access it for you.

I like the look of that menu too :devil:

Edited by poisonshroom

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Kratom grows in mostly southern Thailand, especially

along the Thai- Malaysian border. I've heard of kratom

growing on the outskirts of Bangkok, but have never seen it,

though I've done a lot of looking on train trips to the

boonies.

I travel to Northeast Thailand yearly and have been to Laos

about a dozen times, but have never seen of heard of it growing

that far north. Kratom thrives in super hot, humid, and rainy

weather, which southern Thailand offers in abundance. The

north and northeast Thailand get pretty frigid in the winter,

only for maybe a week or two, but I think it gets cold enough

to prevent kratom from growing.

I remember reading an article in maybe the Bangkok Post about

kratom trees growing wild along the banks of canals down south

in Pattani. A lot of Muslims down there, so alcohol is frowned upon.

High school kids were instead eating kratom leaves but mixing that

with bottles of cough syrup.

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My good lord, i think i may die there from OD. have you been there Psylo Dread ? I have been told to avoid there (Vang Vieng) because its apparently easy to get ripped off (being a tourist). You just totally made me replan this trip though!

We are going on vacation because we love SE Asia. But plants, and animals, a re a huge reason i like to travel, and kratom is a fun plant to find! If you think there is some other natural aspect worth looking at, i would probably quite enjoy it.

Tuamai: Thats a shame about kratom being only in south thailand. But seeing as it does grow, unnaturally, far further north (i grow it at 22.1N and have friends growing it at 29 north in ground outdoors). in southern laos its 14/15N. So I assume, in low elevation, its at least warm enough. I think its just wishful thinking, but i know non speciosa Mitragyna do grow there. do you know if laos gets cold snaps like thailand? I remember asking some locals in borneo where i found most the kratom what a very cold night would be...they said 19 is pretty cold and rare for there...yikes. But i know peopel who grow kratom down to 3C without much issue. i keep telling myself that to give me hope :)

Any clues as to some otehr fun plants out that way?

Poison shroom, i cannot even find this pub to buy...jstor, springer and a bunch of other companies dont have it listed...i can only find it in bibliographies ....that ref came from kew, but they had no links o where to obtain it.

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Hey Kadakuda,

When are you going on your trip?

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We leave end of July and stay until end of August. Exact dates i forget, wife works out the tickets, but its 31 days total.

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Rainy season, but I guess that won't bother

you guys much, judging from your Borneo pictures.

Beautiful pictures by the way.

If you want to sample some fresh leaf just ask

your taxi cab driver or better yet a motorcycle

taxi driver for some. It is illegal, but a lot

of those guys chew kratom every day! Speaking

a little Thai helps.

Have a good trip. Chock Dee.

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ya? even in more northern thailand can find leaf? do you know a phrase or two that could help me out? or pm if not cool to post it.

Ya rainy season, is there any other time we manage to travel? lol. We live in Taiwan so we are used to rain, prefer dry season but not chance to stop working during then. I figure, once your wet, you learn to be used to being wet. Dry is nicer, but wet is.....well its wet lol.

I am still hoping to get to see some living kratom somewhere over there. We also decided to include Burma and cut out a lot of thailand....so long as we can get a visa.

Fingers crossed for kratom on the Mekong river!

ps, thanks to a great guy on the nook, i know have the article wanted in teh first post. thanks bro :)

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Ridsdale CE. 1978 A revision of Mitragyna and Uncaria (Rubiaceae). Blumea. 24. 43-100.

Dont have that, kada but i do have some descriptions of diffrent mitragynas from some of my books. I´ll post that later after i took some hq pics of the text.

I always thought that kratom would be illegal in thailand? If so, how serious are the thai cops taking this ban? Dont get yourself locked up while looking for it....i´d greatly miss your cactus pics. :wink: bye Eg

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I only take pics, not drugs :) If im not back on these boards by Spet 10, start assuming im in a Laos prison lol. thats the only country i will be buying "stuff" maybe some herb in Cambodia. But Kratom i probably wont take any like in borneo. and if i do its mailing cuttings, not keeping it on me. i aint smuggling anything in thailand, them guys are crazy.

Would greatly appreciate your pics :) I am lacking a lot of info on Mitragyna speciosa as far as wild populations in Thailand.

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and if i do its mailing cuttings, not keeping it on me.

i might just add that fresh spring growth makes the best cuttings with mitra, and strike rate drops towards the end of the season.

those locations in thailand probably have less seasonal fluctuations, but the vibe seems to be that young cutting material from early season flushes are, the best material for probagation.

in a nut shell, early growth = easy cutting, late growth = difficult cutting.

both times the cutting material would be of similar hardness, so this variation is not brought on by different woodienes, if woodieness is a word.

anyway, you could alway hope to find seeds aswell, allthough thats easy to say, but hard to achive.

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thats a good point. I notice that with mine as well. I also notice that woody cuts are harder to strike, and fatter softer wood is harder to strike. If I am blessd enough to find any, i sure hope at least one takes for me back home. touch wood!

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the above article gives these distributions to teh countries we are planning to go. Wont be in cambodia for long, or thailand, so hope to strike lucky in laos or burma. if burma visa doesnt come through, i guess we are in thailand longer :)

Burma

M. diversifolia, M. hirsuta?, M. parvifolia, M. rotundifolia

Cambodia

M. diversifolia, M. hirsuta

Laos

M. diversifolia, M. hirsuta, M. rotundifolia

Thailand

M. diversifolia, M. hirsuta, M. speciosa (penninsular/southwestern), M. rotundifolia

Edit: Just bumped into this one as well, which is handy: hxxp://homepage.univie.ac.at/christian.puff/FTH-RUB/FTH-RUB-Mitragyna_compl_WEB.htm#ms

Also, i hav been searching a couple days and come up pretty much empty on looking for these articles. If anyone has any of them i would really appreciate it "The Mitragyna Species of Asia". I only have the 2 from Erowid, which are poor scans. Numbers XVI and V, but i would like all of them, not jsut eh M. speciosa ones. If you have any, I would love ya :)

Edited by kadakuda

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ya? even in more northern thailand can find leaf? do you know a phrase or two that could help me out? or pm if not cool to post it.

Ya rainy season, is there any other time we manage to travel? lol. We live in Taiwan so we are used to rain, prefer dry season but not chance to stop working during then. I figure, once your wet, you learn to be used to being wet. Dry is nicer, but wet is.....well its wet lol.

I am still hoping to get to see some living kratom somewhere over there. We also decided to include Burma and cut out a lot of thailand....so long as we can get a visa.

Fingers crossed for kratom on the Mekong river!

ps, thanks to a great guy on the nook, i know have the article wanted in teh first post. thanks bro :)

Kinda hard to teach you to speak Thai in one thread, but here's a few phrases:

I'd like to get some kratom.

(Chawp dai kratom.)

Do you have some kratom?

(Mee kratom, mai?)

How much is this kratom?

(Nee kratom taorai.)

Be aware Thai has 5 tones, so one word can have 5 meanings depending on the tone, but any taxi cab driver

would understand you saying these phrases. Trouble is he'd probably think you speak Thai and answer you

talking a blue streak combination Thai/Laos. Just smile.

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hehe, ya tones is what gets me with most languages. I will try. I just read that getting caught with kratom has a maximum fine of death...is that true???? Starting to rethink looking for it (to use). I will likely just look for plants and take photos cuttings/mail and leave it at that. No need to tempt fate.

ON a side note i have been doing a lot of research on rivers adn forests in teh area and found this excellent resource of maps! its a gov website i think.

be useful for backpacking as well, but not totally up to date.

hxxp://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/indochina_and_thailand/

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When I was there last year, it was 500 Baht per leaf fine. About $16US.

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When I was there last year, it was 500 Baht per leaf fine. About $16US.

Jesus, per leaf !? Who says money doesn't grow on trees.

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wow, 500/leaf??? Thats pretty insane! Even dried stuff online is WAY cheaper. Guess thats the effect government control has, make things more expensive. So, thats it, i wont b eating any kratom there unless i find it growing lol. something tells me a sack of mushrooms will win over a single leaf of kratom...and my wife has given me a limit as to how much im allowed to spend on "herbs" :(

tuamai, not sure if you are much into hiking through mountains, but if your still in the area, the link i posted above has great selection of topo maps which really make trailblazing much easier. I wont be doing anything like that because i am with my wife and dont know the area at all. BUt if thats your thing that site has a lot of goodies :)

on a related note, i think i have picked out my rivers to check out in Thailand. Going to hit up Ratchaburi. For those that know the area, is it easy to find people with boats to hire "for the day" and take you up smaller rivers? I have a few rivers i would like to check out and by boat is obviously far easier!

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That's 500 baht per leaf FINE as in if the police

catch you with it. Buying it is cheap. I can't

remember how much I paid for about 10 large leaves,

but it was a pitance. I ate two leaves the day we

arrived in Bangkok and my jet lag disappeared.

Kadakuda, just thinking, my brother in-law drives

a taxi in Bangkok, also likes his kratom and

depending on what shift he's working, may just be

able to pick you and your wife up at the airport.

PM me the particulars: airline, flt#, arrival time

and we'll call him up and see if he can.

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ohhhh ok that makes more sense. hehe.

I am really not looking for trouble in Thailand, so if you think tis fine to get a couple quids, then ya im down for getting rid of some travel sleepies :) but if its a huge risk, i will pass.

My main goal is to bring back plants and grow them out and then everyone can enjoy growing them (I distribute a lot of plants!). After bringing cuttings through malaysia in my backpack through the airport i am not going to do that again, caused too much anxiety. I will just mail them in a bunch of packages and hope for the best. seeds would be ideal as they make it through customs far easier. anyone know Thailand kratom flowering season?

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Hey Kada,

How's your country's controls on bringing plant material back ? In Australia, I'm sure the Quarantine guys at the airport would have a field day, and at the very least delay you for many hours. Same too with plants in the post (assuming only - I have never tried bringing a plant in from overseas).

Tuami, we all seemed to miss that little word 'fine' :) . Regardless, Im dubious that corrupt cops have a scheduled fee charter to follow when they bust travellers for illegal drugs. For my experience of getting into all sorts of trouble in a few South East asian places, I can tell you it's going to take a lot more than $16 to get you off the hook, and avoid being another lost soul languishing in a filthy prison.

Watch out in Malaysia - I have always been of the opinion that the cops there are hard to buy. Probably because theyre on a decent legitimate salary.

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Psylo have to agree with you on that. There is a big difference

between a Thai person and a farang (foreigner) getting in trouble

with the Thai police and the big difference is the amount of money

you must pay! It helps if you have Thai friends with you that can

talk to the police. If you're on your own and can't speak Thai well,

it's going to cost you for sure.

Was a bit surprised to see your menu from Vang Vieng. That's how it

was in the nineties until about 2001. Had an American friend I studied

Thai language with who opened up a bar there. The Lao polce showed up

one night and arrested just about everyone on "the island". He spent

a day or two in prison and then was put on a bus which took him to the

"Friendship Bridge". They let him off there pennyless and he had to walk

across the bridge to Nongkhai on the Thai side. Everything he owned was

confiscated by the Lao polce! Guess whoever is in charge up there now

is letting things go or more likely taking a cut of the action.

Ya Kadakuda, best to keep a low profile on your kratom search. The offer's

still open on my brother in law maybe picking you up at the airport and

the safest way of getting a few leaves, but I'd say it'd be near impossible

to get a kratom cutting unless you go down south and make friends with some

radical Muslims. :blush:

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Was a bit surprised to see your menu from Vang Vieng. That's how it

was in the nineties until about 2001.

While that is not my photograph, I can confirm that in 2009, you could get plenty of drugs in Vang Vieng. Weed, mushrooms, opium, and amphetamines were all available particularly on the bar area known as the island.

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