Most over-rated herbal

[incognito]

for me would have to be pap som. it just does NOTHING for me. except make me extremely bored and very vomitty. and ive had alot of em. ive had similar experiences on codeine, capinol and morphine, to varying degrees. Opiates do zilch for me. and lord how have tried. Ive always thought id have a shot at H, but im scared i would like it TO much, and no way im goin out like that. I know my addictive personality to well. But i wanna know why people are so pumped about opiates.

next to pap soms i would have to agree with lago.

well the question was "in your expernce". i am tempted to try h to see if it is something i would enjoy, but i really dont want to tempt it.

i probably could just once,to see, but still i wont tempt it. i always hear from people that i know who use that its like 'being in love'. thats pretty cool.

ive also heard that some people opiates work for,some dont, its a brain chemistry thing, same as with pot-heads. like the brain is actually caving such compounds. any truth in it?

or certain brains have more receptors for opiates than others, and some potheads brains naturally have more cannabinoid receptors? hope im making sense im ripped as

Edited May 27, 2011 by incognito

[Ulca]

Wild lettuce was a let down, felt something but was not what i was looking for/expected/needed... Psh, lettuce opium, shoulda known better .

Heimia shouldnt be on that list... Its much like salvia, it takes a while to get the feel for it, but, once u got it, u can get their off a tiny bit. Thats as far as hallucinogens are concerned.. In general, as a medicinal herb, its pretty damn awesome.

Sometimes i use Heimia before bed, just a few tokes. Its gives a strange anti-depressent feel to it the next morning, lots of morning energy... And the morning sun, Damn, it was so yellow/bright.

[Zen Peddler]

Ever tried will lettuce extract? Id does a WHOLE lot...

[incognito]

ill give it a whirl. kratom i must dmit never had a hwole lot of effect other than sleepiness.

[hutch]

How about 'most under rated herbal or extract'....maybe another thread?

What herbs or extracts do you believe are under rated?

I would like to add tea to that list....might not be under rated with others but it was to me. I couldn't see what anyone saw in it until just of late...I crave it and it has replaced coffee as my beverage of choice... weird....maybe age

Edited June 17, 2011 by hutch

[Bretloth]

Wild dagga extract did shit for me, tried smoking it and eating it a couple times, waste of money. Wild lettuce grows everywhere here and you need fresh latex, does sweet fuck all by itself but some fresh latex rubbed into a nice bowl of weed is nice, kinda dreamy, apparently.

Edited June 18, 2011 by Bretloth

[opiumfreak]

Wild dagga extract did shit for me, tried smoking it and eating it a couple times, waste of money. Wild lettuce grows everywhere here and you need fresh latex, does sweet fuck all by itself but some fresh latex rubbed into a nice bowl of weed is nice, kinda dreamy, apparently.

 

try extract

[Jesus On Peyote]

This may be heresy but i have to say my most overrated herb was salvia D,back when it was legal.

I heard so much about it helping with depression and general enlightenment but i got didly.

Now In her defence, i dident use her much and never ever had a dose that would constitute what alot of people call "breaking though" but alas, most dissapointing plant, not for its effects but i guess my owwn expectations.

Again, i havent used her much, and i still think she has some to offer.

My 2 cents

[friendly]

In the old days, it used to be widely known that if one powders a bit of Sceletium in a coffee grinder for 60 seconds and then takes the very fine powder that forms in the lid and claps the lid down on a plate to remove it, if put into small lines (30-50mg) and insuffflated the powder can cause extremely potent and fine effects. Ask any of the older members, those around since the 90's when things were just getting going in the entheo community. They should be able to tell you.

I'm surprised no one seems to remember this. The plant used to be known as ----'s little sister.

Anyone?

[Psylo]

In the old days, it used to be widely known that if one powders a bit of Sceletium in a coffee grinder for 60 seconds and then takes the very fine powder that forms in the lid and claps the lid down on a plate to remove it, if put into small lines (30-50mg) and insuffflated the powder can cause extremely potent and fine effects. Ask any of the older members, those around since the 90's when things were just getting going in the entheo community. They should be able to tell you.

I'm surprised no one seems to remember this. The plant used to be known as ----'s little sister.

Anyone?

 

Hi Friendly, not sure what youre getting at here. Are you suggesting that sceletium strains were more potent 15 years ago, or that people's expectations of available ethnobotanicals have changed ? I wasn't interested in this hobby in the 1990's, but as someone who uses sceletium from time to time via insufflation for the last five years, there's no question about her positive effects on me. Blending with cannabis in a smoking combination also has unmistakable effects far beyond placebo (as a skeptic who is, if anything, the first to have low expectations of most legal, unextracted plant materials), that are present, and amazingly very, very different to an insufflated dose.

Edit:

in a coffee grinder for 60 seconds and then takes the very fine powder that forms in the lid and claps the lid down on a plate to remove it

This is exactly the method I use for my nose powder. Very bloody time consuming to get a decent quantity, but you end up with a premium grind that greatly enhances the ability to absord into the nasal walls.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Psylo Dread

[DarkSpark]

This may be heresy but i have to say my most overrated herb was salvia D,back when it was legal.

I heard so much about it helping with depression and general enlightenment but i got didly.

Now In her defence, i dident use her much and never ever had a dose that would constitute what alot of people call "breaking though" but alas, most dissapointing plant, not for its effects but i guess my owwn expectations.

Again, i havent used her much, and i still think she has some to offer.

My 2 cents

 

dude your crazy ! i know it is a personal experience kind of thing but i have had breakthroughs from smoking just the leaf (not even extracts) TBH sally to me is one of the most ender-rated even with all the hype. The idea that a plant can create something powerful enough to wreak havoc on my mind like that without any extractions or anything is amazing. As treatment for depression i am not so sure, as a vision, sound and mind altering plant heck yes.

As for most overrated i have found most if not all of the base products (lactuca, kanna, damiana etc to have negligible effects) hence i am buying larger amounts of assorted herbs and will try some extracts

I would also note that originally i was looking for something to give me the "high" associated with weed. When you learn that this type of high only comes from the good stuff and learn to look for other things you can start to find the mild effects. However these are still extremely mild hence the wanting to try extracts.

final edit: i am not having a go at you either Jesus on Peyote you may have been looking for a different thing in yours or had a higher tolerance to me this is just my opinion as well.

Edited September 5, 2011 by DarkSpark

[Francois le Danque]

dude your crazy ! i know it is a personal experience kind of thing but i have had breakthroughs from smoking just the leaf (not even extracts) TBH sally to me is one of the most ender-rated even with all the hype. The idea that a plant can create something powerful enough to wreak havoc on my mind like that without any extractions or anything is amazing. As treatment for depression i am not so sure, as a vision, sound and mind altering plant heck yes. (1)

As for most overrated i have found most if not all of the base products (lactuca, kanna, damiana etc to have negligible effects) hence i am buying larger amounts of assorted herbs and will try some extracts (2)

I would also note that originally i was looking for something to give me the "high" associated with weed. When you learn that this type of high only comes from the good stuff and learn to look for other things you can start to find the mild effects. However these are still extremely mild hence the wanting to try extracts. (3)

 

1) Me too.

2) Me too.

3) Me too. Though our modus operadi differ here, because unlike most i actually tried weed so i could gauge the effects of the other herbs. as in, everywhere i read it was the standard that people compared to and sought after, so i figured i better try it so i could see for myself.

[friendly]

I do believe that most of what is sold as Sceletium tortuosum--which has the highest content of mesembrine (and less of the other somewhat toxic mesembrinic compounds) of all the mesembrine containing plants discovered so far--is actually another species of Sceletium, as there was a disease in South Africa that nearly wiped out the wild and cultivated tortuosum strains some 15 or so years ago. I know this from my seed source who informed me of it and also from Dr. Nigel Gericke who was dealing with the problem during his Sceletium tortuosum cultivation attempts at the time. S. emarcadium or S. nova are two that are of the most likely to be found sold as S. tortuosum, both as seed and plants. There are others I have seen that I couldn't identify, as well.

There may have been a resurgence of the plant species in the wild, but I haven't kept up the past few years.

The best (online) source for true S. tortuosum seeds used to be Silverhill Seeds of South Africa. They stopped carrying those and all other species of Sceletium many years ago due to the problems with gathering any due to the disease, but time has gone by and they may once again be offering Sceletium species seeds. Like I say, I have not been involved with this project for some time.

Dr. Gericke, though is part of an effort to market S. tortuosum (cultivated, and of guaranteed potency) within the next 18 months in the USA as an over the counter chewing gum-type supplement called Zembrin, said to be "...mildly stimulating, like the stimulation one gets from a cigarette...", although the current economic situation may slow this down some.

I have copies of his original analytical papers and screenings for pharmaceutical activities and they are quite impressive. I am sworn to secrecy, though, and cannot dislose what I know at this time.

Insufflation works quite well, and often initially exposes one to the limitations of one's frame of reference. That is, the effects are compared to something with which one is familiar, and only with experience is the true nature of the plant made clear.

Too large of a dose will make one dizzy and somewhat nauseous for a short while.

Edited September 6, 2011 by friendly

[∂an]

This may be heresy but i have to say my most overrated herb was salvia D,back when it was legal.

I heard so much about it helping with depression and general enlightenment but i got didly.

Now In her defence, i dident use her much and never ever had a dose that would constitute what alot of people call "breaking though" but alas, most dissapointing plant, not for its effects but i guess my owwn expectations.

Again, i havent used her much, and i still think she has some to offer.

My 2 cents

 

From my experiences with extract in the US, I'd have to agree. All the commercially marketed Sally D extract did for me was make me lose motor control and then black out, with some interesting dreams afterwards. It definitely seems like a powerful plant tho, and I'm sure a home grown plant taken in the traditional way could deliver the goods.

[Teotzlcoatl]

The Sally D extract we get in the U.S. now will blow your freaking socks off with one hit.

[Hendry]

Smoked commercial 30X sally D many years ago in the states. After one hit you ..........needed a sitter to take the pipe as one forgets they are holding it. Floor carpet melted into the ceiling(or appeared to do so?) but for me no euphoria just disoriented "slanted"? feeling......I never did try the quid method.

[bogfrog]

i have only tried salvia once, it was a 30x extract and i fell backwards through the wall out of my body into a flower shaped arrangement of about 8 different versions of myself -what i would be like if had been brought up in different environment, if i had a majorly different attitudes and views, if i had lived in a different country- and i went through each of these selves and hoped when i came back to my room that i had come back in the right me!

i think salvia is incredibly powerful and wise, in that maybe she chooses when you are ready for a mind blowing experience and when you just need to relax a bit and take things slow. also have heard it builds up in you so you might have stronger trips the more you take it.

i am lucky to live in new zealand where salvia is legal and am growing my own plant, looking forward to trying it too!

[friendly]

S.d. is indeed extremely powerful, and if you don't remember much of what happened, you probably got too large a dose. I have never even used an extract as the plant works fine for me just as is.

The highly concentrated extracts out there now (if you believe that they really are the strength stated. I have my doubts.) are dangerous enough to cause the unseasoned to do thinge like jump through unopened glass doors and crasch through windows--check out utube for an assortment of dumb things done by those who didn't take the plant seriouosly enough. However, I have seen this happen just from using the leaf and not an extract. Propper preparation is the key.

It's this kind of inexperienced and foolhgardy behavior that has led to listing and prohibiting of S.d. in several of the states over the past few years, with more jumping aboard that bus every year.

There are adequate new users guides online so life threatening experoiences don't have to happpen if only they are read and the information utilized.

Edited September 7, 2011 by friendly

[planthelper]

i can understand why somebody would lika a 5x, but nothing higher.

it's just a stupid maketing thing that we humans like rather to buy something 30x than 5x. i mean it all started out being just 5 x, and than the 5x people missed out to the 10x people, so they did a 15x, bla, bla.

and than there are some people which would see it like, 30x is a 1200cc bike and pure leaf is a 50cc scooter, and think they are cool because they dose higher than the others, now thats stupid competition.

like a sort of attidude, "i better than you, because i dose the higher than you".

[tryptamine]

i can understand why somebody would lika a 5x, but nothing higher.

it's just a stupid maketing thing that we humans like rather to buy something 30x than 5x. i mean it all started out being just 5 x, and than the 5x people missed out to the 10x people, so they did a 15x, bla, bla.

and than there are some people which would see it like, 30x is a 1200cc bike and pure leaf is a 50cc scooter, and think they are cool because they dose higher than the others, now thats stupid competition.

like a sort of attidude, "i better than you, because i dose the higher than you".

 

Yeah, then came the "lets just sell 5X labeled as 200X" people. Due to the strange working nature of Sally D, people can get away with daylight robbery.

[DarkSpark]

i can understand why somebody would lika a 5x, but nothing higher.

it's just a stupid maketing thing that we humans like rather to buy something 30x than 5x. i mean it all started out being just 5 x, and than the 5x people missed out to the 10x people, so they did a 15x, bla, bla.

and than there are some people which would see it like, 30x is a 1200cc bike and pure leaf is a 50cc scooter, and think they are cool because they dose higher than the others, now thats stupid competition.

like a sort of attidude, "i better than you, because i dose the higher than you".

 

I found standard leaf to be a pleasant and still powerful experience. If it was legal i would think that the next time i tried it would only be maybe 2-3x and i would have original leaf before it wait a few days then have the extract to see the differences, Too much for me would be too unpleasant i think, and wasteful. from the sounds of just like passing out 30x sounds as though it is way too strong.

Yeah, then came the "lets just sell 5X labeled as 200X" people. Due to the strange working nature of Sally D, people can get away with daylight robbery.

 

ROFL now this is probably true. The people buying it aren't really able to "check" the extract for potency.

[Zen Peddler]

Sally is powerful. In so many weird ways.

[mutant]

what friendly says.

plain leaf works fine for most serious salvianauts

I cannot understand how some people cannot feel it at 5x. I am sure they are doing something wrong or are hardheads or getting crappy product or ??? ....

Some people really want salvia to work for them, but it wont happen, most probably because of incompatibility and intensity of SD when smoked, hastiness. Also salvia is rarely , if at all [well it has been for me] euphoric, one could say it's a strict and cold female teacher that puts off many. SD can also offer a pain feeling through its amazing effect, usually when something is wrong with set & setting

I never quidded, and it's supposed to be both easier to comprehend and cope with and also the traditional ingestion method...

As for a teacher, yep she is. She teaches love through the body, not a mental lesson.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Plain leaf from plants you've grown yourself is very very powerful, whether chewed fresh or dried and smoked. I think plain leaf is plenty strong.

[friendly]

Back in the late 90's. When S.d. was new and the flavor of the month, people were claiming extracts of 100x.

I never believed any of the claims for higher concentrations, as most of the mnanufacturers were fly by night operations that did not have the knowledge or necessary equipment to concencrate and titrate such products.

One company sent me samples--without request--of their products, which went all the way up to 100x, and I could not tell the diference between any of them. They all looked like bunk untreated leaf with nothing added. There was no discernable difference betwen the 5x and the 100x.

There were only two trustworthy, real, standardized to strength extracts out in the early days. One was sold as 'incense', consisting of depleted leaf onto which a measured amount of Salvinorin-a was deposited and came in a 5x and 10x vial, while the other was a full-spectrum 5x which contained all of the S.d components concentrated to five times normal strength and re-deposited on depleted leaf.

Neither is still available commercially.

Arpund the time I was working on the paper 'The Other Psychoactive Salvias' (which can be found on many sites worldwide by goopling the title and 'by friendly') I discovered that the hardheadedness of some can be mitigated by having them smoke a few hits of one of the other psychoactive Salvias, such as S. splendens, S. coccinea, S. argenta, etc.

This often relaxes them enough to allow the experience to unfold by removing the normal mind's inclination to ignore or resist the S.d. effects.