Coming To Terms WIth Oneself

[shruman]

Hey all, been a while, good to see this place still exists, I still do, so do'nt worry, not that you did... bannin more plants, whats the world comin too eh?

So I had a little comp failure that coincided with a bit of depression & some time for reflection, I'm prone to these from time to time especialy when stressed.

But I got a comp a little bit ago, so thats better anyway. I dunno if I mentioned it on here before but I know at least some of you know, our eldest son (5) is somewhere on the Autism Spectrum Disorder, probly High Functioning Autism. He was diagnosed at 3 & me & my partner (we) have been trying to understand & deal with raising an autistic child. Which has probly been understandingly tough but its been through this process, I have probly learned the greatest truth about myself.

I'm an Aspie!

But maybe you knew that?, or maybe now you realize the signs were aparent?, or just thought I was strange?, we are always guessing?

As clear as crystal this is to me right now, previously enshrouded in viscous tar.

I'm still realy unsure as to what this can hold for me, but in quiet confidence I have high hopes, & feel quite upbeat.

Well I'll leave it at that for now. & should hopefully return soon with more on this & more of my longwinded, confusing, detail oriented, pedantic posts on my passions.

Feel free to share your thoughts on aspies, Autism Spectrum Disorders or coming to terms with oneself.

PS I should probly mention this is a self diagnosis, & I will make an appointment on monday, but the tests I took I passed with flying colours, 34 on the AQ test, I UTSE & noticed a few had taken that particular one. & I have researched fairly extensively. I also looked into how my ADHD diagnosis as a child fit in & my adult anxiety & depression diagnosis & nothing has made mroe sense in my life then this.

Just wanna say how much I appreciate all you guys even if I am not always capable of showing it.

[Magicdirt]

!

Edited May 8, 2011 by Magicdirt

[Alchemica]

Thanks for sharing! I'm in a similar situation being diagnosed with pretty much everything (DSM's: collect 'em all) before an Autism Spectrum Disorder was confirmed. I'm somewhat odd in that I strongly oppose classification into Asperger's vs. other Autism Spectrum Disorders (apart from use in diagnostics and treatment), partly because the "clan of Aspies" has in my opinion lost the essence that there are essential (primarily social and behavioural inflexibility) deficits that can impose prolonged difficulties and trauma for individuals trying to belong and feel accepted in society.

Congratulations on finding a partner, as far as I'm concerned, that is quite a feat. I hope you and your partner can continue to raise your son with the understanding that he may be unique but also has unique challenges facing him as he grows up. Consider early behavioural therapy and speech therapy in social pragmatics if possible and encourage emotional reciprocity; it is much more effective during the early years.

Hopefully you will find increased acceptance of any of your quirks once a diagnosis has been confirmed. That said, remember that it is often our quirks that truly make us. Don't be ashamed of some odd talent/passion.... it needn't define you but it does sculpt you into a true individual with a worthy contribution to this world. You are always welcome to get in contact via PM if you'd like to chat about anything and everything (but don't know where conversation is welcome).

Have I come to terms with the diagnosis myself? Not really. Everything odd about me has always turned into a mission to "fix it", to the point of trying to establish a point where I'm comfortable. Earlier experimentation with things like MDMA proved to me that feeling loved, included and enjoying life were neurochemically possible, so that remains as a glimmer of optimism.

Well I'll leave it at that for now. & should hopefully return soon with more on this & more of my longwinded, confusing, detail oriented, pedantic posts on my passions.

Please do. I think sharing things like that offer a unique mirror into yourself that can easily be missed if it is not expressed. It's also something that is refreshingly unique to outsiders. All the best, I hope you find some comfort and encouragement in understanding yourself and your son in a new light.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Alchemica

[mescalito]

Welcome back shruman

Good to see you're in a positive state considering the life that has been given to you with your young fellar and all.

Interesting read Magidirt,yeah the gut/bowel is so deeply linked with psychology as has been proven with all these additives and food intolerance's,in particular with wheat/dairy.Some know this just through experience.

I've had dealings with a friends young bloke who was diagnosed with Autism.Funnily enough, though he didn't trust many people especially men,he took a real shining to me.He was so cool,he'd drag me into wonderland

I was told I have a type of Autism which is musically inclined,the bloke said Savant.Anyway another story.

Well I took the test and scored 24.

I'm not sure that this test is as concise or can there be one?..other than enforcing a "Label"; which I for one am not in favour of....I see the point,but It's like...I really don't see psychological tests as being much more than a consensus test that's been condensed.

PLEASE don't get me wrong,but I think we all have a bit of something when it comes down to an arbitrary scale much like the DSM-IV.

There's a whole host of Questions that really should be in the test,like your eating/sleeping habits,drugs used or using,previous psychological trauma,exposure to toxins,how your parents treated you,where you are at with your inner-strength and your outlook/belief system....a whole host of bits of the past that also make up who you are today,like right now.

May I ask were you medicated for "ADHD"?

I really don't know a lot about the Syndrome to be honest,though like anyone that has pretty big challenges in life,you get an insight into not only others but also yourself.

To me that's a big part of the point considering the expectations we perceive and are told to "be" as we mature through this ride called life.We are told not to be selfish or self-indulgent,when in fact there are times in our own private life when we damn well should be!

I know this from withdrawing from Benzo's.The wildest mind states (un)imaginable endured,when analysed give one an understanding of what it's like to be X or Y or Z through the process.

Umm yeah I hope you haven't taken anything the wrong way,like I know Jack really about this,but I'm glad you are reaching out and being open and honest.

That takes GUTS man.

Keep us up to date please,you're obviously dedicated and I hope someone else here can help out.

Always interested in the Human Psyche and I'm sure all will go well for ya's.

mesc...

[shruman]

Thanks Guys

It can be quite demanding on our relationship magicdirt luckily I think we find strength in each other to overcome most adverserties, to the best of our abilities anyway.

Yes, thanks MD, I have read about links between gut flora & ASD before. I remember Auxins thread here: http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24662&st=0&p=259578&hl=++intestinal%20++flora&fromsearch=1entry259578

But then I've read this abstract too (if anyone has the article?): "Gastrointestinal factors in autistic disorder: a critical review.

Abstract

Interest in the gastrointestinal (GI) factors of autistic disorder (autism) has developed from descriptions of symptoms such as constipation and diarrhea in autistic children and advanced towards more detailed studies of GI histopathology and treatment modalities. This review attempts to critically and comprehensively analyze the literature as it applies to all aspects of GI factors in autism, including discussion of symptoms, pathology, nutrition, and treatment. While much literature is available on this topic, a dearth of rigorous study was found to validate GI factors specific to children with autism."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16267642

There is alot to consider & thanks for that book review, looks interesting, I do wonder what evidence she has to support her hyopthesis?, sorry I did'nt have the attention to read all of it ifshe did detail her evidence?

Interesting too, my parents were offered drugs for my "ADHD" but they too considered the ramifications & decided to try diet, & apparently it helped. ALL of our kids are very healthy eaters & I'm quite strict actualy, the few luxuries I let them have & still make me cringe are white bread, & occasional fizzy drinks they get lollies for rewards & to spoil occasionaly as every kid needs but generaly only a few & when we can afford natural confection company. But yes I agree it is something to think about & eminds me of another little autistic boy we know who will only eat bananas, but its too much potassium for the little bugger. He seems very affected though & change is difficult for him, less so for my son & I keep introducing him to new things & hes generaly receptive, All our kids love olives & pickles, some seemingly moreso then chocolate.

"Thanks for sharing! I'm in a similar situation being diagnosed with pretty much everything (DSM's: collect 'em all) before an Autism Spectrum Disorder was confirmed. I'm somewhat odd in that I strongly oppose classification into Asperger's vs. other Autism Spectrum Disorders (apart from use in diagnostics and treatment), partly because the "clan of Aspies" has in my opinion lost the essence that there are essential (primarily social and behavioural inflexibility) deficits that can impose prolonged difficulties and trauma for individuals trying to belong and feel accepted in society."

Thanks for sharing too Alchemica, I think I understand, I must admit I find it all a bit confusing to & think much of it is about a label but clearly it does look as if most people are now focusing towards the spectrum model. How did they lose their essence of essential defecits?, I'm unaware?

`

"Congratulations on finding a partner, as far as I'm concerned, that is quite a feat. I hope you and your partner can continue to raise your son with the understanding that he may be unique but also has unique challenges facing him as he grows up. Consider early behavioural therapy and speech therapy in social pragmatics if possible and encourage emotional reciprocity; it is much more effective during the early years."

Thanks mate, was tough, I've only realy had 2 relationships for any length of time, & this has lasted nigh on ton 10 years so we are happy. She is very understanding, she has depression & atkes her pills & gets by most days, but we both love eachother & our kids & just make it work.

I am very happy to say our son is very happy & doing very well (getting merit awards) at kindergarten, We started Early Itervention Therapy as soon as we could aswell as speech therapy as he does have delayed speech, & his improvement has been heartening & steady, he has even been invited to birthday parties & has friends. I have only had to pick him up from school from one mother of a meltdown. But the teacher talked to me about it & recognised she needs to deal with him a little differently at times. So we are all optimistic for him.

"Hopefully you will find increased acceptance of any of your quirks once a diagnosis has been confirmed. That said, remember that it is often our quirks that truly make us. Don't be ashamed of some odd talent/passion.... it needn't define you but it does sculpt you into a true individual with a worthy contribution to this world. You are always welcome to get in contact via PM if you'd like to chat about anything and everything (but don't know where conversation is welcome)."

Thanks mate.

"Have I come to terms with the diagnosis myself? Not really. Everything odd about me has always turned into a mission to "fix it", to the point of trying to establish a point where I'm comfortable. Earlier experimentation with things like MDMA proved to me that feeling loved, included and enjoying life were neurochemically possible, so that remains as a glimmer of optimism."

Yeah the title is Coming to terms with oneself, I dunno if it will ever truly be over. I too have known better living through chemistry & consider the implications intriguing.

"I'm not sure that this test is as concise or can there be one?..other than enforcing a "Label"; which I for one am not in favour of....I see the point,but It's like...I really don't see psychological tests as being much more than a consensus test that's been condensed.

PLEASE don't get me wrong,but I think we all have a bit of something when it comes down to an arbitrary scale much like the DSM-IV."

I wonder too, I took this one too: http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php much more extensive & same result, highly likely your aspie. very detailed results with that one.

"There's a whole host of Questions that really should be in the test,like your eating/sleeping habits,drugs used or using,previous psychological trauma,exposure to toxins,how your parents treated you,where you are at with your inner-strength and your outlook/belief system....a whole host of bits of the past that also make up who you are today,like right now."

I tend to agree & would think these questions would be asked at a diagnosis.

Don't worry mesc no offence taken.

Edited May 1, 2011 by shruman

[mescalito]

Thanks, and yeah man I know how lucky you are to have a partner that sticks by you too.

Have you seen links to Mercury poisoning?

Through a search unrelated it popped up...I was at Dr Mercola's site reading about Transcranial Magnetic Simulation Here and something told me to type in aspergers because of fillings?

I've got the old fillings and I know that Mercury leaches into the bloodstream with ingestion of hot or cold fluids (especially crap ones )

Anyhow just another tid-bit.

Take care

mesc...

[Gunter]

i am an aspie, though i prefer the term autistic

it is genetic in my family, clearly associated with the y Chromosome in my case

it went undiagnosed in the past generations, largely due to ignorance about it

now there is more recognition it seems more prevalent, but it isn't in my case

instead it is just more recognized, not more cases of it, just more notice of it

it is a distinct benefit in many ways, certainly not a disorder

it is a difference that many are proud to bear and be

not something to fix or that can be fixed

i don't know about autism that can be triggered, but it is clearly hereditary in many cases and cannot be avoided in the offspring of people who have the genes for it

it is like hair color, you can wear a hat or dye your hear, or even have it removed

but it is what it is and you best accept it and work with it

[Distracted]

I've thought I was an aspie from learning about it a few years ago but I never went to get professionally checked as I figured there was nothing they could do anyway.

I did the link mescalito posted and my result was

Your Aspie score: 107 of 200

Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 99 of 200

You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

[shruman]

Made my appointment today, next thursday, nervously await.

"Thanks, and yeah man I know how lucky you are to have a partner that sticks by you too."

We are indeed fortuitous.

"Have you seen links to Mercury poisoning?

Through a search unrelated it popped up...I was at Dr Mercola's site reading about Transcranial Magnetic Simulation Here and something told me to type in aspergers because of fillings?

Yes I have seen people try to make the links, at the time when I was looking I found no hard evidence to support but I did read many reports on forums of mums & dads that say they did it & their kid goes to school now, enough to look into the cost of the test to determine wether mercury levels were high & then the cost of the several chelating agents they reccomended. Which was prohibitively expensive & raised alarm bells of scam but my logical brain insisted as the testing companies apeared to be independent & the "drugs" available online where was the money coming from?

If anyone does have hard evidence?

"i am an aspie, though i prefer the term autistic"

Loud & proud brother

I must say you have helped me much more than you probly know & I'm glad to see you chime in.

Someone I have had an afinity too, & maybe now I realise why.

I must admit I did see a bit of a post you had at The Nook (I'm so sorry & sad for you to see you will no longer post their, your passions, some at least are self evident & a large part of your passion is there, but I think I can understand your decisions, but they never need be finite, we are always looking for new insight, flexibility can be an atribute to often one hard for us to accept though, also sad for myself & The Nook I will miss you there)

But it was this post & maybe the ensuing chaos?, god I hate to ofend but love the truth, meltdown?, explosion?, I'm only guessing from patterns I've seen in me, & the thread or 2 that followed. I'm sure painful too you, but as Alchemica say's maybe a window into myself.

& this was one of the things that piqued my interest back in Aspergers one of the stops on a looooong journey.

So I sicerely thank you

"it is a distinct benefit in many ways, certainly not a disorder

it is a difference that many are proud to bear and be

not something to fix or that can be fixed"

I view it this way aswell, from the moment my son was given his diagnosis I have just had complete acceptance & infinite patience & seemingly understanding for him, I believe I now know why these feelings have been so strong. So I think I have come to my own diagnosis with the same sort of acceptance & understanding?

"i don't know about autism that can be triggered, but it is clearly hereditary in many cases and cannot be avoided in the offspring of people who have the genes for it

it is like hair color, you can wear a hat or dye your hear, or even have it removed

but it is what it is and you best accept it and work with it"

Yeah the only problem I have with it is what it could mean for my other 2 kids... my second eldest son 4 in june is apparently "just like you were as a kid", loves to chase the chickens & ducks, hunt for mushrooms, crow like the rooster, pick the strawberries, abuses his siblings with seemingly no empathy & will meltdown when you try to discipline him & we took him to talk to the Dr about behavioural issues & possible ADHD/ADD (because I had it) autism (cause his bro) but not Aspergers when he was 3 & the Dr said "because you say he does well in a structured enviro I don't think he has ADD/ADHD he just has some behavioural issues, he needs more socialisation send him to Nan & Pops as often as you can". I'll mention this to the Doc.

& yes the genetic link seems bleedingly obvious to me.

But thats pretty much been my moto from the start, this is the hand we've been dealt, lets get some chips on this table & have a bleeeping go, what other option do I have?

Edited May 2, 2011 by shruman

[Gunter]

as for the N word... i'll leave that alone

as for the genetic aspects, knowing the pros and cons helps one a great deal, there are weaknesses and strengths in being what one is, regardless of what one is, it is up to us to know and work with and around these aspects, to be able to know what does and does not work for us, for example some teaching environments may be counterproductive, while others may be more effective

there are things to avoid, things to practice, things to seek out

not sharing group consciousness has a lot of aspects to it that can work for and against you

it results in greater independence and drive, but also creates rifts between the individual and the neurotypicals who cannot understand so many aspects of functionality and difference

basically you can't expect to understand or be understood in terms of typical or normal social behavior

however one can learn to approximate in terms of interaction, so as to imitate the neurotypicals in some ways

but trying to be one is a waste of time if you are not one, much like trying to figure out "WHY" which is a nonsensical question in nearly every domain of information

autistic children/people need practice in dealing with NT people and other autistics, they need to learn patience for themselves and others

a lot of problems come from the attitude of trying to understand or be like those that we cannot understand or be like

"let it go" is some of the best advice i ever gave myself

another important aspect is creative and expressive outlets, art, music, math, information, writing, collecting, these types of outlets allow focus and have the potential to benefit greatly from the functional differences of autism

meditation is also important, the mind must be trained and focused to a greater degree

[ThunderIdeal]

28, didn't expect such a high score on AQ test.

i've cared for an, at the time, undiagnosed ASD child. it was extremely difficult. at least now you can access good information shruman, and since you're coming from the same place, i'm sure you'll rise to the occasion.

[shruman]

I find this fascinating regarding a genetic link:

"Fragile X syndrome can cause a child to have autism or an Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) though not all children with fragile X syndrome have autism or an ASD.

For 2% to 6% of all children diagnosed with autism, the cause is the Fragile X gene mutation. Approximately one-third of all children diagnosed with fragile X syndrome also have some degree of autism. Fragile X syndrome is the most common known single gene cause of autism.

From Dr. Randi Hagerman's statement to the United States House of Representatives Subcommittee on Health and Environment: "...Fragile X represents a portal through which we hope to view and treat a wide variety of other disorders of brain development and function. All children with autism...should be tested for Fragile X."

Genetic mouse models of Fragile X syndrome have also been shown to have autistic-like behaviors."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragile_X_syndrome

I have had time for reflection & meditative thought, thank you Arch, sometimes I need outside stimuli to break the internal thought patterns.

Yes I will never understand, & my thinking has changed & I'm sure the language will too.

All to obvious now, People were probly trying to express a difference when they wrote on my report cards, lacks motivation, drive, direction, focus, determination, easily distracted. & I knew it too but never knew why, everyone else could get along in that environment. Now I know why & eagerly await the adversities I will face in appropriate time. I have to sharpen my tools, first though & view them with a new perspective.

Thanks TI

I realy don't give much to the test, I think it was a good tool but analysing myself was far more helpful, the test only confirmed in me what I already knew but I too often need that outside stimuli, having extensively researched it.

[ThunderIdeal]

i've suspected myself to be a bit of an aspie case ever since i read into it, but i've also met diagnosed aspies and thought myself comparatively very, very normal. getting such a high score at least tells me, yeah might almost be "neurotypical", but you're not. i like that word by the way, never saw it until this thread.

it's good you will have the benefit of all the research that has gone into educating and caring for ASD kids. well i mean, none or few of us had the benefit personally, but as a parent you will benefit from it. now they can even give kids lessons on interacting, fitting-in lessons i guess, like how to show interest in people, make jokes and so forth.

i used to just frown at strangers, and randomly charged members of my family with a big running headbutt. the little one i was caring for that was undiagnosed at the time, was always biting. that is a harsh thing to deal with if you don't have the right techniques, an angry little toddler always biting even when you are playing and he seems happy, won't use words (another trait that i had), can't seem to communicate what he wants or feels. it makes caring for them incredibly difficult when you have no idea what you're doing, and being bitten all the time makes you start to downright avoid closeness, it also makes their siblings or other children more likely to use violence against them.

[kindness]

Just wanna say how much I appreciate all you guys even if I am not always capable of showing it. - epic shruman

love you man.

diagnosis come and go though hey. don't get to caught up in the western methodology of determining what is and what isn't.

peace

[mescalito]

Just wanna say how much I appreciate all you guys even if I am not always capable of showing it. - epic shruman

love you man.

diagnosis come and go though hey. don't get to caught up in the western methodology of determining what is and what isn't.

peace

 

Spot on!

You are who you are, ditch the labels,they only hold back thoughts and bind the mind.

You know you're different that's one up on the majority

[shruman]

Asperger was right, he was an Aspie.

Yesterday was good today is better.

Today it is clear to me,

I'm autistic, I have an autistic family, it seems to run through all the oral history I know. & I know it in aspects of all my imediate family.

It is genetic but for us how it is expressed or manifested, in very different ways is largely influenced by their inate properties & environment.

A toxic society, something I have known before but when things get tough I abandon my cold facts.

We are toxic, parents have not lost their skills, They have lost their support, Raising a child has never traditionaly been the job of a parent, it has been the focus of a community, these boxes started going up when we started building little boxes for everyone & then came the generation who would raise the baby boomers, a population explosion manifests as an epedemic, who put boxes in their living rooms, all those inanement objects droaning away how could we focus on what was important. & our skills are eroding to epedemic propotions.

Increasingly obvious with all the inanement objects people have tried to fill the hole of the loss of their community.

Yes it is obvios now, we do have an intrinsic ability to recognise ourself in others & it is common, we are autistic or at least share traits.

When society has no use for us we don't have any use for them & the little boxes go up.

We have lost our tribe.

No wonder we are all trying to band together here.

We need our tribe.

We were the storyteller, the flintknapper, firestarter, toolmaker & shaman.

We are the Aspie, space ranger, autistic, junkie, Bi-polar, larakin, doctor, wacko, scientist, alcho, inventor & bum.

This was an atribute & is a mental illnes.

De ja vioux is a lie

We learn through mimicry

Utilize our plasticity

We put up boxes

Internalize

We have'nt seen that perspective before

It escapes

Its a lie

I need people, They need me

I know it, They know it

We have told them, We are special

I have seen it in them, They have seen it in me

Transferance, Co morbid dependence

The rules are maluble, We must learn them

We are bonobos, We are perverse

We had order, We are chaos

Edited May 5, 2011 by shruman

[AndyAmine.]

Hey Shruman, long time no speak.

Glad to hear your well, drop me a message some time or drop over if your ever on the coast would be good to catch up.

I got a 36 on that test.. Hmmmm...

[mescalito]

Yes Shruman consider it a gift not a "Dis-ability"

You're very wise honest true and clearly awakening.....well written and touching.

You are more awake than the dunce's that make up these tests...we are all Human and Diversity is the key to Harmony.

"They" like to put people in boxes...it makes for better shipping and packing

[ThunderIdeal]

yep the bit about boxes was very poignant

i hope you aren't flipping out though man. not saying you are! but i didn't understand the comment in the intelligence thread or who it was directed at.

[shruman]

Sorry TI, asking questions is how we learn, maybe If I show you my reasoning?

I too have often jumped for the answer & this was the problem, it is a new way of thinking, can I show you?

Who stared the topic?

What is there name?

Who jumped in?

Who took the bait?

Who saw the pattern?

& refused the box.

It is Ok don't think I feel bad or whatever that label is, I am many things , & I hope they don't feel too bad they probly thouht they were trying to helpout but it was just another distraction.

I am the problem cracker, can you do it too?

Calm the mind

Release the pain

Forgive ourselves

Free our mind

All it takes is love.

Edited May 6, 2011 by shruman

[shruman]

But its more than this those are only hard rules, you have to keep it in context, the rules change the pattern does too.

Socratic thought

why?, why not?

& this is the biggie, we need each other you ask the questions we have the answers.

What do you think?

We can teach you better & you can teach your kids better to, caution may result in inbreeding, when we lose site of the bigger picture.

Edited May 6, 2011 by shruman

[qualia]

why do you need to feel you fit to a pattern?

i took that test above, twice,

first time i got 128/200, answering sober and honestly,

second time i was in a bad mood and scored 144,

point is self testing is inherently skewed with self bias,

i.e. if you take the above self test, thinking you're an aspie,

then your answers will reflect that,

that's the problem i have with self testing,

or any western psychological testing that is,

i got lumped into a category many years ago,

fortunately for me i was too fucked up at the the time

to become complicit in their idea of normality,

trust me, the best judge of yourself is your self,

at least if you have a slight awareness of where and what you are,

which obviously you do

[shruman]

I do'nt anymore, I have dropped the patterns. Plasticity

It is an outlet for the mind.

Pretty much done with it anyone wanna write a thesis?

Or am I still to criptic?

I have always struggled & used metaphors & analogies to try to explain, now I will accept it, can you? for better or worse.

Maybe some stuff at AE some may like to read.

Edited May 6, 2011 by shruman

[shruman]

Do'nt get caught up with the pattern it is just a tool, we can reshape it, we are maluble & sometimes need another tool.

Sorry thats flawed reasoning up there, i also put it in context ie where he posted & when.

Edited May 6, 2011 by shruman

[shruman]

We all need to step back, calm the mind & say why are we here?

& not get obsessed in the details.

What is it I seek in others?

What do they seek in me?

What is the real question?

What is mental health?

Stigmatism mixed with genetics & taken out of context (culture)

Edited May 6, 2011 by shruman