Men going Down

[synchromesh]

What started out as an amusing thread to me , has become quite educational. I will be faced with the decision of getting 'Miss 9" the Cervical Cancer Vaccine in not too many years to come. I was against doing this but after reading here, i am now leaning toward the idea. I just don't know. Ahh , the trials and tribulations of being a parent.

Edit: i might add that my mum died of cevical cancer, and have a string of deaths on my mothers side due to cancer.

 

Because everything I posted is bullshit, right? Torsten pulls a couple of sourceless numbers out of his arse (except for maybe the corrupt manufacturer's of the vaccine-but still, no links), and you believe that everything is hunky dory... Oh well, if she dies, it's on your hands.

But you can't get the 80% of cervical cancers without being infected with one of those two strains, so why do you need to have cancer numbers to show that the vaccine works? That would be like saying we need to have HIV deaths numbers to know whether a HIV vaccine works [obviously you only need to know the infection rate to know if the vaccine works].

It still doesn't work.

synchromesh - if you post some respectable references I'll bother reading them. I couldn't be arsed with conspiracy site refs.

Oh, that's right, anybody who has anything bad to say about vaccines is a conspiracy theorist... Okay then, how about the FDA?

The First Six Pages of the Judicial Watch Special Report Examining the FDA’s HPV Vaccine Records

And as for your paranoia quote, it is an incorrect assumption. The human brain will work efficiently under high adrenaline load for only a very short period of time. After this it becomes ineffective, illogical and erratic.

 

Wow, somebody has a good sense of humour... Who says that people have to be high on adrenaline in order to be paranoid?

He wasn't stating HIS opinion, he was stating what he suspects the articles agenda was.

 

Whether that's the case or not, what does it matter now?

[random]

omfg syncro wtf telling someone that if their daughter dies its 'on their hands' fuck me, if thats not the most fucking horrible thing i've read on here then i dunno what is.

[synchromesh]

The Great HPV Vaccine Hoax Exposed

A NaturalNews Special Report by Mike Adams

For the last several years, HPV vaccines have been marketed to the public and mandated in compulsory injections for young girls in several states based on the idea that they prevent cervical cancer. Now, NaturalNews has obtained documents from the FDA and other sources (see below) which reveal that the FDA has been well aware for several years that Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) has no direct link to cervical cancer.

NaturalNews has also learned that HPV vaccines have been proven to be flatly worthless in clearing the HPV virus from women who have already been exposed to HPV (which includes most sexually active women), calling into question the scientific justification of mandatory "vaccinate everyone" policies.

Furthermore, this story reveals evidence that the vaccine currently being administered for HPV -- Gardasil -- may increase the risk of precancerous cervical lesions by an alarming 44.6 percent in some women. The vaccine, it turns out, may be far more dangerous to the health of women than doing nothing at all.

If true, this information reveals details of an enormous public health fraud being perpetrated on the American people, involving FDA officials, Big Pharma promoters, and even the governors of states like Texas. The health and safety of tens of millions of young girls is at stake here, and what this NaturalNews investigative report reveals is that HPV vaccinations may not only be medically useless; they may also be harmful to the health of the young girls receiving them.

This report reveals startling facts about the HPV vaccine that most people will find shocking:

• How it may actually increase the risk of precancerous lesions by 44.6 percent.

• The FDA has, for four years, known that HPV was not the cause of cervical cancer.

• Why mandatory HPV vaccination policies may cause great harm to young girls.

• Why HPV infections are self-limiting and pose no real danger in healthy women

• Little-known FDA documents that reveal astounding facts about Gardasil

• How Big Pharma promoted its Gardasil vaccine using disease mongering and fear mongering

The Trail of Evidence

This story begins at a company called HiFi DNA Tech, LLC (http://www.hifidna.com) a company involved in the manufacture of portable HPV testing devices based on DNA sequencing analysis. HiFi DNA Tech has been pushing to get the FDA to classify its HPV detection technology as a "Class II" virology testing device. To understand why this is a big deal, you have to understand the differences between "Class II" and "Class III" virology testing devices.

Based on FDA rules, a Class III virology testing device is one that is considered by the FDA to have "premarket approval," meaning that it cannot yet be sold to the public. In order for such a device to be marketed to the public, it must be downgraded to Class II status, which is considered a "special controls" status. Class II devices are, "...those devices for which the general controls by themselves are insufficient to provide reasonable assurance of safety and effectiveness, but for which there is sufficient information to establish special controls to provide such assurance, including performance standards, postmarket surveillance, patient registries, development and dissemination of guidelines, recommendations, and any other appropriate actions the agency deems necessary."

In other words, a Class II device may or may not actually be safe, but the FDA considers is safe enough to release to the public.

HiFi DNA Tech has been trying to get its HPV detection device downgraded to a Class II device based on the following arguments:

• For more than 20 years, the FDA had regulated the HPV test as a "test for cervical cancer."

• But since at least 2003, the FDA has changed its position on the relationship between Human Papilloma Virus and cervical cancer, stating that the HPV strain is "not associated with cervical cancer."

• Accordingly, HiFi DNA Tech is arguing that the HPV test it has developed is no longer a test for cervical cancer, but is merely a test for the presence of Human Papilloma Viruses -- a shift that makes the test far more reliable in its primary purpose. In other words, the test is merely detecting the presence of a virus, not making a diagnosis of a disease (which would be a much higher standard to meet).

On October 12, 2007, HiFi DNA Tech sued the Food and Drug Administration in an attempt to force it to downgrade its HPV detection technology to Class II (see http://www.news-medical.net/?id=31180 ). Earlier in the year -- on March 7, 2007, HiFi DNA Tech filed the HPV PCR test reclassification petition with the FDA. It is the information in this petition document that led us to the FDA's knowledge that HPV is not linked to cervical cancer.

Got all that? This is a somewhat complex story to follow, so here it is again in summary:

• A company that manufacturers a DNA testing device that can detect the presence of HPV (Human Papilloma Virus) is petitioning the FDA (and suing the FDA) to get it to reclassify its medical device as a "Class II" device based on the revelation that the FDA has already adopted the position that HPV infections do not directly cause cervical cancer.

• This would mean that the FDA has been aware for years that HPV does not cause cervical cancer, which means that the FDA's approval of the Gardasil vaccine -- as well as the national push for Gardasil vaccinations -- is based on a grand medical hoax that, not surprisingly, appears to be designed to exploit the fear of cancer to sell vaccines. The victims in all this, of course, are the young girls who are apparently being subjected to a medically useless (and potentially dangerous) vaccine.

• None of this information was apparently known during the more recent debates over the safety and efficacy of Gardasil, the HPV vaccine now in use. This means that the public debate over mandatory HPV vaccinations lacked key elements that now seem essential to reaching rational, evidence-based conclusions over the safety and efficacy of such vaccines.

Next, we reveal the FDA's statement that HPV is "not associated with cervical cancer."

Click the NEXT link below to continue...

NEXT

[Amazonian]

Because everything I posted is bullshit, right? Torsten pulls a couple of sourceless numbers out of his arse (except for maybe the corrupt manufacturer's of the vaccine-but still, no links), and you believe that everything is hunky dory... Oh well, if she dies, it's on your hands.

 

I did say that i was leaning toward the idea, not sold completely. I still need to look into it further for myself. I am not keen on any vaccines and am a big believer in letting the body sort itself out. I struggled with the child immunizations and recently had to decide whether 'Master 12' should receive the hep'B injection given out at school. As a parent, i just try and do the right thing for my kids. It ain't easy making decisions that will effect them for the rest of their life.

[synchromesh]

omfg syncro wtf telling someone that if their daughter dies its 'on their hands' fuck me, if thats not the most fucking horrible thing i've read on here then i dunno what is.

 

OMFG!!1!1! Grow up will ya.

[Amazonian]

Well if this thread hadn't started in bitches and gripes, it seems it certainly would have ended up here.

[random]

I am grown up actually and I merely find your cruel and insensitive comment about someone else's daughter ridiculous and offensive. It's actually none of your business if parents choose to give their children immunisations or not anyway

[synchromesh]

I did say that i was leaning toward the idea, not sold completely. I still need to look into it further for myself. I am not keen on any vaccines and am a big believer in letting the body sort itself out. I struggled with the child immunizations and recently had to decide whether 'Master 12' should receive the hep'B injection given out at school. As a parent, i just try and do the right thing for my kids. It ain't easy making decisions that will effect them for the rest of their life.

 

I understand that, and that's why I've been trying to help. I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just trying to be real. I mean, I know that people who die from vaccines are in the minority, but do you really think that this matters to their parents?

Just imagine being a parent who has lost a child to a vaccination, knowing that you were led to believe that the vaccination would be perfectly safe... I don't want you to experience that.

[synchromesh]

I am grown up actually and I merely find your cruel and insensitive comment about someone else's daughter ridiculous and offensive. It's actually none of your business if parents choose to give their children immunisations or not anyway

 

Grow up more.

[random]

whatever syncro, I have kids myself so you don't need to tell me to grow up and I'm as aware as anyone to the risks of immunisation, which is why my youngest daughter hasn't had all her immunisations yet, face it you sounded harsh and offensive whether you meant to or not and you made uncalled for remarks, so whatever im done arguing with you.

[tripsis]

I understand that, and that's why I've been trying to help. I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just trying to be real. I mean, I know that people who die from vaccines are in the minority, but do you really think that this matters to their parents?

Nothing is without its risks Synchro. More people drown each year than die from the vaccine, but parents still let their children swim. More people would be mauled by dogs each year than die from this vaccine, yet parents still let their children near dogs. It is their prerogative to decide on what is and isn't safe for their children, not yours. If the vaccine actually does reduce the risk of cervical cancer as it is supposed to, then the risk of being in the minority and dying from the vaccine is easily outweighed by the benefits. Whether it actually is effective or not is a topic for debate, as is quite clear in this thread. This doesn't mean that you you start insulting people because they don't agree with your views.

Just imagine being a parent who has lost a child to a vaccination, knowing that you were led to believe that the vaccination would be perfectly safe... I don't want you to experience that.

Does anyone say that it actually is perfectly safe? I highly doubt it.

[synchromesh]

meeka - Well, I'm just sick of hearing about parents losing their kids to state-sanctioned poisons is all. Especially the ones who should have known better. I also don't like being ignored.

By the way, having kids doesn't instantly mean that you're a wise person. It simply means that you have kids.

[tripsis]

War loses more kids than vaccine do. Why not get up in arms about that instead? The state sanctions swimming and pets too. Does this make it a conspiracy set out to destroy the good people of this country?

As I said, everything has its risks. People have to weigh up the benefit against those risks and decide for themselves whether it's worth it. Just because a small minority experience severe side effects from this vaccine, including death, does not automatically make it bad. The vaccine for Japanese encephalitis can lead to anaphylaxis and thus death, but this doesn't counteract the benefit it can provide to the majority of people. The same goes for so many of the medications approved by the government. Most, if not all, medications, have side effects, with a small percentage of people experiencing severe side effects from them, but again, this doesn't mean that those medications shoulder be withdrawn from the market.

[synchromesh]

Nothing is without its risks Synchro. More people drown each year than die from the vaccine, but parents still let their children swim. More people would be mauled by dogs each year than die from this vaccine, yet parents still let their children near dogs.1 It is their prerogative to decide on what is and isn't safe for their children, not yours.2 If the vaccine actually does reduce the risk of cervical cancer as it is supposed to, then the risk of being in the minority and dying from the vaccine is easily outweighed by the benefits.3 Whether it actually is effective or not is a topic for debate, as is quite clear in this thread. This doesn't mean that you you start insulting people because they don't agree with your views.4

1 I know that. But then why risk giving your child autism with flu shots?

2 It's just the way Amazonian wrote that first post is all. She came off as a parent who doesn't do any research.

3 I disagree. I mean, whatever happened to just living a healthy lifestyle?

4 Sorry, but who did I insult?

Does anyone say that it actually is perfectly safe? I highly doubt it.

Nurses and so on will warn you about things like rashes and headaches, but what about all of the other side-effects? The permanently debilitating side-effects for example...

[tripsis]

Endless inane arguing, eh?

3 I disagree. I mean, whatever happened to just living a healthy lifestyle?

If by healthy, you mean abstinent, then go practice that yourself. Most people enjoy sex and will fuck more than one person in the course of their lifetime. Seeing as having sex is where this risk comes from and people generally choose to have sex, then if there are ways of reducing that risk, other than abstinence, why not consider them? You can be the most extravagantly healthy person on the face of the planet and still end up with cancer. Living healthily is not a panacea.

4 Sorry, but who did I insult?

Meeka.

OMFG!!1!1! Grow up will ya.

Grow up more.

Nurses and so on will warn you about things like rashes and headaches, but what about all of the other side-effects? The permanently debilitating side-effects for example...

Nurses and doctors will generally warn of serious side effects as well. If they don't, then they are irresponsible. The government is not responsible for what doctors and nurses choose to tell you.

[synchromesh]

War loses more kids than vaccine do. Why not get up in arms about that instead? The state sanctions swimming and pets too. Does this make it a conspiracy set out to destroy the good people of this country?

That other message was to meeka dude. You posted too early.

Anyway, the reason I'm "up in arms" about vaccines is because that is what this thread is about. Simple! And regarding the swimming and pets thing, that's just ridiculous. I don't even know where to begin with that, and I'm actually surprised that you posted it.

As I said, everything has its risks. People have to weigh up the benefit against those risks and decide for themselves whether it's worth it. Just because a small minority experience severe side effects from this vaccine, including death, does not automatically make it bad. The vaccine for Japanese encephalitis can lead to anaphylaxis and thus death, but this doesn't counteract the benefit it can provide to the majority of people. The same goes for so many of the medications approved by the government. Most, if not all, medications, have side effects, with a small percentage of people experiencing severe side effects from them, but again, this doesn't mean that those medications shoulder be withdrawn from the market.

 

Well, it does. It does when you know that pre-vaccination, many (if not most) of the victims were fit and healthy...

Gardasil should be withdrawn from the market though... You obviously haven't read enough about it yet. Keep reading...

[Slybacon]

Can I ask you something sync? Are you vaccinated?

[tripsis]

The "swimming and pet thing" is a valid point. I'm highlighting the fact that there is an inherent risks in everything we do and just because a few people may have died as a result of this vaccine, does not immediately mean it should be avoided. If Gardasil is as effective as it is supposed to be, a few deaths does not negate its benefits on the whole.

Well, it does. It does when you know that pre-vaccination, many (if not most) of the victims were fit and healthy...

No, it doesn't. With logic like that, swimming and pets are bad. Some people are allergic to water. Does that mean water is bad?

Gardasil should be withdrawn from the market though...

Why?

[Hendry]

Life is too short not to eat pussy and ass like the condemned.

[bℓσωηG]

eat that ass! It may save your life!

[synchromesh]

Endless inane arguing, eh?

 

I hope not.

If by healthy, you mean abstinent, then go practice that yourself. Most people enjoy sex and will fuck more than one person in the course of their lifetime. Seeing as having sex is where this risk comes from and people generally choose to have sex, then if there are ways of reducing that risk, other than abstinence, why not consider them? You can be the most extravagantly healthy person on the face of the planet and still end up with cancer. Living healthily is not a panacea.

I guess it depends on what you believe...

HPV Vaccine Hoax Exposed: FDA Documents Reveal HPV "Not Associated with Cervical Cancer"

If there's no link between HPV and cervical cancer, then there's probably no link between HPV and oral cancer either.

Meeka.

 

I was just being honest. There's a difference. Maybe she shouldn't have latched out at me like she did?

Nurses and doctors will generally warn of serious side effects as well. If they don't, then they are irresponsible. The government is not responsible for what doctors and nurses choose to tell you.

 

Everybody kept the side-effects of the H1N1 vaccine pretty hush hush didn't they?

[Magicdirt]

This thread was posted in the right place, it started out as a bitch then it turned into a gripe and now it has degenerated.

[Torsten]

Th problem with this debate and so many others like it is that there is one side who is hapy for everyone to make their own decision on the basis of the information available from a wide variety of sources. Then there is a handful of others who evangelise the US vs THEM mantra and ruin every good thread with it.

Synchro, that link you gave is NOT the FDA. Don't make it look like it is a reliable link. It is a body with an agenda that has ANALYSED the FDA information. And to be honest I doubt you have actually read it cos it doesn't say anything that contradicts anything I have stated.

[synchromesh]

Can I ask you something sync? Are you vaccinated?

 

Against what?

[synchromesh]

The "swimming and pet thing" is a valid point. I'm highlighting the fact that there is an inherent risks in everything we do and just because a few people may have died as a result of this vaccine, does not immediately mean it should be avoided. If Gardasil is as effective as it is supposed to be, a few deaths does not negate its benefits on the whole.

You didn't say it like that though (although you did earlier). You said it like this:

The state sanctions swimming and pets too. Does this make it a conspiracy set out to destroy the good people of this country?

First off, there's no real money in allowing people to swim or have pets. Secondly, the risks of swimming and having pets are few, and are well-known by everybody (e.g. you will drown if you can't swim!). And thirdly and lastly, unlike many vaccines, swimming and pets actually serve a purpose.

Th problem with this debate and so many others like it is that there is one side who is hapy for everyone to make their own decision on the basis of the information available from a wide variety of sources. Then there is a handful of others who evangelise the US vs THEM mantra and ruin every good thread with it.

The "conspiracy theorist" says: Stop talking about yourself Torsten.

Synchro, that link you gave is NOT the FDA. Don't make it look like it is a reliable link. It is a body with an agenda that has ANALYSED the FDA information. And to be honest I doubt you have actually read it cos it doesn't say anything that contradicts anything I have stated.

 

Oh, no?

"HPV is not associated with cervical cancer."