Wurdi Youang rocks could prove Aborigines were first astronomers

[synchromesh]

Wurdi Youang rocks could prove Aborigines were first astronomers

IS this just a pile of rocks placed in a semicircle, or proof that Aborigines were the world's first astronomers?

After years of meticulous examination, a group of Australia's most distinguished astro-physicists is starting to believe it's the latter - a discovery that could turn history upside down and render England's famous Stonehenge an also-ran.

Dubbed Wurdi Youang, the strange stone arrangement was found on property near Mt Rothwell, 80km west of Melbourne - its two points set in perfect alignment with the setting sun on a midsummer's day.

CSIRO experts believe the ancient Aboriginal sundial could be upwards of 10,000 years old, an estimate that would have it pre-date the famous neolithic Stonehenge and the only remaining ancient wonder of the world, the Egyptian Pyramids.

Its location is a closely guarded secret.

CSIRO astro-physicist Professor Ray Norris said the precise alignment of the stones proved it was constructed to map the sun.

"This can't be done by guesswork, it required very careful measurements. If it goes back, let's say, 10,000 years, that predates the Egyptians, the Pyramids, Stonehenge, all that stuff," Professor Norris said.

Source

Edited February 9, 2011 by synchromesh

[C_T]

Thats awesome :D

[FancyPants]

I'd love it if they found out that all the markings were were remnants from an ancient Aboriginal game of roo-bladder soccor

Interesting to see what it turns out to be.

[Sola]

Very interesting, as aboriginal societies had words for astronomic constellations I thought they would have a good understanding of the

movement of the sun, stars and planets. Since the sun provides us as well as every living thing on Earth that has ever been with the

ability to survive it is highly likely that there are other sites around as well because understanding the changes in season/ weather

could be the difference between surviving or not. Also there is some evidence that aboriginal groups in Victoria and I think other places

were actually farming yams in a sense that we commonly understand farming now. That would also require a better understanding of

weather to obtain a good crop. Very interesting to see some rock solid evidence

[random]

Link pincher But I must say I was particularly excited to read this last week too, more proof of the exceptional skills and knowledge of Aboriginal Australia.

[Distracted]

I hope it's not a hoax being found in some farmers paddock and all.

[random]

Astro-physicists have studied it, do you think they would bring this to light if they had evidence it was a hoax... Maybe its hard for some people to believe that the past Indigenous population of Australia have had such skills/knowledge to be able to construct such an awesomely precise thing.... Another side effect of the dumbing down that blackfellas receive in the media no doubt... *sigh*

[botanika]

I would suggest humans had such abililities before they even left Africa. Comparing it to stonehenge or Egypt is not fair as they were far more sophisticated and made much later than 10,000 BC. It needs to be compared with sites of similar age.

Not to take anything away from aborigines - they were highly skilled observers of nature. Imagine how much oral knowledge has been lost. A couple of stones don't do them justice because the were isolated away from any exposure to sophisticated masonry. Their knowledge is tied up in stories and myth.

Edited February 11, 2011 by botanika

[synchromesh]

35,000-year-old stone axe found in Australia

The oldest stone axe in the world sharpened by grinding shows that early Australians were highly innovative.

[Distracted]

Astro-physicists have studied it, do you think they would bring this to light if they had evidence it was a hoax... Maybe its hard for some people to believe that the past Indigenous population of Australia have had such skills/knowledge to be able to construct such an awesomely precise thing.... Another side effect of the dumbing down that blackfellas receive in the media no doubt... *sigh*

 

I trust that the aboriginals were smart more than I trust that farmer bob is honest.

[tripsis]

Interesting stuff, to be sure.

Anyway know much about the theory that other people inhabited Australia before modern day Aborigines (or Indigenous Australians as the politically correct term would be these days) arrived here?

[botanika]

They found a skeleton in mungo brush dated 60,000 years old. When they did DNA tests it turned out to be human but vastly different from modern day aborigines. They may not have been first to Australia. There's no reason why Neanderthals or their sub groups or species like homo floreseinsis could not have made it to Australia and were eventually assimilated by aborigines, or that earlier humans came in independently. We can only prove what we have via fossils which is very limited.

Stone tool using hominids have been around hundreds of thousands if not millions of years. There's so much we don't know.

Edited February 12, 2011 by botanika

[paradox]

They found a skeleton in mungo brush

 

sorry to nitpick & sound like a tool but that was lake mungo in south west nsw, not mungo brush, myall lakes on the east coast

[botanika]

sorry to nitpick & sound like a tool but that was lake mungo in south west nsw, not mungo brush, myall lakes on the east coast

 

Yes sorry! I have camped at mungo brush - my wires crossed!

[Rabelais]

Astro-physicists have studied it, do you think they would bring this to light if they had evidence it was a hoax... Maybe its hard for some people to believe that the past Indigenous population of Australia have had such skills/knowledge to be able to construct such an awesomely precise thing.... Another side effect of the dumbing down that blackfellas receive in the media no doubt... *sigh*

 

Agreed double+.

Isn't it also the consensus that aboriginals were the first people to utilise levers...at the ends of their spears for extra power/throwing distance?

[synchromesh]

They found a skeleton in mungo brush dated 60,000 years old. When they did DNA tests it turned out to be human but vastly different from modern day aborigines. They may not have been first to Australia. There's no reason why Neanderthals or their sub groups or species like homo floreseinsis could not have made it to Australia and were eventually assimilated by aborigines, or that earlier humans came in independently. We can only prove what we have via fossils which is very limited.

Ancient DNA Reveals That Some Neanderthals Were Redheads

Genetic Study Reveals Human-Neanderthal Interbreeding

Australian Aborigines Initially Arrived Via South Asia

Stone tool using hominids have been around hundreds of thousands if not millions of years. There's so much we don't know.

 

Neanderthals More Advanced Than Previously Thought: They Innovated, Adapted Like Modern Humans, Research Shows

Use of Body Ornamentation Shows Neanderthal Mind Capable of Advanced Thought

Prehistoric man went to the movies, say researchers

Neanderthal life spans similar to modern humans

Neanderthal extinction not caused by diet

Volcanoes Wiped out Neanderthals, New Study Suggests

[botanika]

Hey thanks for the links Syncro!

[synchromesh]

No worries bud. I had some of them saved from recent research anyway. Talk about an interesting subject!

[random]

If i'm part neanderthal then i'm perfectly fine with that. I'm not worried how or when Aboriginal Australians arrived on the land that we are living on anyway, it should not detract from the vast knowledge and skills that they obtained through trial and error, nor should the fact that they used their knowledge to live here successfully and in harmony with the land for how ever many years that 'scientists' reckon that they've been here for... Seriously this is a scientifically studied site yet still the comments that it is a hoax pop up in this thread and people seem to have no faith in the strong possibility that this is indeed an aboriginal astronomical site which pre-dates many other well known ones.

[FancyPants]

If i'm part neanderthal then i'm perfectly fine with that. I'm not worried how or when Aboriginal Australians arrived on the land that we are living on anyway, it should not detract from the vast knowledge and skills that they obtained through trial and error, nor should the fact that they used their knowledge to live here successfully and in harmony with the land for how ever many years that 'scientists' reckon that they've been here for... Seriously this is a scientifically studied site yet still the comments that it is a hoax pop up in this thread and people seem to have no faith in the strong possibility that this is indeed an aboriginal astronomical site which pre-dates many other well known ones.

 

Nobody here has made any comment alluding that ancient aboriginal Australians weren't capable of what this site might represent. Any cynicism likely comes from Modern (invader/non-aboriginal Australian) Man's greed etc.

Just wanted to clarify that before any negativity gets misunderstood and blown out of proportion.

Edit: BTW my comment on humourously wondering if the site were from an ancient game/sport would've been applied to other sites like the Atacama desert giant animal drawings or Stonehenge etc.

Edit2: @Meeka, ah yeah I see where you're coming from; totally don't blame you. A real shame it's still an issue though

Edited February 18, 2011 by FancyPants

[random]

Well you do get a bit defensive when you're used to hearing/seeing/reading people making ignorant comments about your family based on the racial steretypes that are alive and well... So apologies if I sounded negative and I wasn't about to blow anything out of proportion.

[paradox]

Maybe its hard for some people to believe that the past Indigenous population of Australia have had such skills/knowledge to be able to construct such an awesomely precise thing....

 

yeah too right.. very close to where i grew up theres a carving site which marks the intersection of 3 different tribal areas... i'm not aboriginal but i'm lucky enough to have a good friend who's life is basically dedicated to regaining & keeping his ancestral knowledge & sharing this with the younger generation... on one trip out bush with him he showed me this site which amongst many other carvings is one that is a clear map of all the tributaries that run through these three large tribal areas... every detail of this map is perfectly accurate.. & i mean perfectly accurate! as in, 21st century cartography could not improve on it.. apart from the fact that it's carved in stone.. & this site was estimated to have first been carved close to 20,000 years ago.. i have learned so much from my friend but many times when i've been out with him with other indigenous guys theres been quite a few areas that i'm simply not aloud to go & i have to wait for them to come back.. if that map site & many other places i've been to is something they are willing to show an un-initiated white fella then it blows my mind to think of the things i will probably never know

[synchromesh]

27,000 year old Aboriginal ochre mines achieve National Heritage Listing

[∂an]

Since this thread was created, at least one scientific journal article has been written on the subject of the rock arrangements at Wurdi Youang.

Wurdi Youang: an Australian Aboriginal stone arrangement with possible solar indications

Their testing of the hypothesis that the egg shape rock arrangement was designed to indicate astronomical phenomena, namely the position of the sun at the solstices and equinox, is scientifically rigorous and convincing.

Now we just need to find a site that indicates aboriginal knowledge of Earths axial precession (i.e. that the constellations behind the sun at the equinoxes and solstices change over a period of 26,000 years).

[DiscoStu]

here's another paper released last year,

http://www.atnf.csiro.au/people/rnorris/papers/n301.pdf

apparently there's an academic collaboration australian aboriginal astronomy project which you might be interested in