WTF? How is reputation counted?

[lickapop]

i honestly cant see the big prob with teotz..seriously.

he seems like a good,enthusiastic kid. we all have our shortcomings personality wise so really i think alot of peeps (as the saying goes) can see the speck in teotz eye but not the log in their own.

if he shits u dont read his posts! seriously!!

im glad t has taken the stand with teotz as he does. i see it as an admirable quality.

if theres one thing i have always detested in this world is that of bullying. i think its fucked up and stands out like dogs balls when people like to bait and have a crack at teotz then whinge and whine whenever the fella posts ANYTHING.

i think its a cunt act basically, and reflects poorly on the person who likes to shitstir and slag him off.

bullys are cowards, and i for one am glad that torsten sees it for what it is.

 

I couldnt agree more mate.

But if I can just add that teotz is teotz and he/she gives as good as he/she gets. You sometimes gotta just sit back and let it happen. Most of what teotz gets is not bullying imo. The malicious bullys do stand out and will never give him the credit he sometimes is due and IMO like yours, its a cunt act

[FancyPants]

Fancypants Hutch already said he didn't go negatising your posts, so maybe. Just maybe, it wasn't?

Also I agree, the rating system seems to be abused more often than it's not, if you're going to make a trade with someone and check their rep and see a -30 you might change your mind, despite them being a perfectly good member except for an instance when a childish argument takes place and someone or someones negs every one of their posts.

 

No he didn't, actually.

Just out of curiosity; I'm not necessarily accusing you... but did you happen to go through posts I'd made and neg them for any reason for the hell of it? I seem to have gone from +30-odd to -19 over the weekend and for posts I don't quite understand were negged, like my NY Resolution thread. If you did then I'm quite curious to know what your mature and reasonable reasons for negging them were? Since I went to the effort of explaining why I'd negged AND positised a few posts of yours et al in this thread.

 

To which he replied

Poor baby! I used to be plus17 and then all of a sudden I was neg 19 on Saturday and I was plus 5 on Sunday and I was negative 19 earlier today and then I was plus 5 and now I'm plus 1, wow.....I just roll with the punches..jump on it's fun.....

 

[Torsten]

Fancypants Hutch already said he didn't go negatising your posts, so maybe. Just maybe, it wasn't?

 

Hutch lied to you. He did abuse the system. he has received a warn point, and all the negatizes have been flipped to him. I have subtracted them from FancyPants' reputation.

[mutant]

I did say I wasn't fully aware of direct impact of nember of negative votes on someones rep. Even so, I never did it serially, with the sole intention to bad rep someone, but in case I have genuinely found a post wrong, totally stupid or with an obvious negative vibe I didn't agree with. I might have overused it , I admit, like negatizing 3 consecutive posts by Teotz I found stupid and in fact I felt remorse when I realised, after his spree on my rep, that over time, I must have given teotz 20 ~30 neg votes or something, so almost half or third of his bad rep was due to me.

So here are a couple of differences though, and if I am to be critisized for bullying [fuck I was always a bigmouthed anti-matcho anti-bully guy all my life, I suppose the net changes you ?!?!] I stand for my right ot explain my self.

So I might have overused the negatize function only because I did not realised exactly what it did. Fuck the fucking points. I only took them for my gardening and photo work anywayz, not because I am a good or trusted guy. Right? The point is I never went to troll, or vandalise. But there's a message for me to. Heh, actually I will tell you a saying in greek. "Curse is a donkey and returns to the master" . Means give negativity for long enough, and it will return to you in some form.

And another thing, about 'bullying' teotz. That makes me the net-matcho-cunt I guess. I am never offensive towards weak persons. I am usually beeing a smartass towards arrogant people, especially in combo with straight bullshit! I admit it, it bugs me. I get the whole thing with peace and all this

so

I will say sorry I ruined some dude's reputations, lol, including Teotz, his would be like only -40 if I did not exist , due to negatizing posts I considered 'nasty'. I never did it serially with chiral either. I know see how this is 'abuse'

I still believe the voting system is creating more problems than it can contribute to something. The very fact that a pissed off or drunk dude [or hey, a straight stupid guy] can go on a voting spree to take a dudes reputation down 40something points down by serially negatizing random posts [read vandalism] for a single incident, while simultaneously serially sending childish, stupid PMs and publicly stating he is drunk, shows that the voting system ain't flame proof.

You might thing I make rep points to big of an issue. Fuck that. What bugged me is the sense of being wronged by T, who wrote me off like a bully shit-stirrer.

Edited January 20, 2011 by mutant

[Torsten]

...like negatizing 3 consecutive posts by Teotz I found stupid

9 negatize in 11 minutes.

I will say sorry I ruined some dude's reputations, lol, including Teotz, his would be like only -40 if I did not exist

How can someone redeem himself if any improvements he makes are ignored on the basis of his past? teotz has been trying hard to get his negs down, so to assume he doesn't car whether it is -40 or -80 isn't fair. Anyway, he got the same punishment as you [flipped negs] and a weeks suspension.

I still believe the voting system is creating more problems than it can contribute to something.

only because people use it without knowing what it does. ratigns are everywhere on the web now, so get used to it.

What bugged me is the sense of being wronged by T, who wrote me off like a bully shit-stirrer.

HUH? you stir teotz up at every opportunity. then you complain about him abusing the point system even though you had done it yourself. I reversed all point abuse and gave teotz some time out. you didn't even get a warning point like others who have abused the system.

And just for the record, from what i can work out, you started negatizing teotz about 2 hours before he started on you. in schoolyard terminology that means you started it.

[FancyPants]

Hutch lied to you. He did abuse the system. he has received a warn point, and all the negatizes have been flipped to him. I have subtracted them from FancyPants' reputation.

 

Thank you

[Alice]

in schoolyard terminology that means you started it.

 

Torsten, it is starting to feel a bit like a schoolyard here. How many posts are wasted talking about this fucking ratings system?

People aren't using it correctly (in general), I think something needs to change. Yes I realise that as you say rating are everywhere on the web, but that doesn't make it a good thing or mean that it's something that is suited for every situation that we should necessarily adopt.

Can we even do a search based on keyword and rating? I don't know.

If you're not keen on abolishing it (which clearly you are not) then maybe you would consider a change. Reset the system, then allow only positive votes. Then good posts would be highlighted as they should be. There is not need for negativity here, there is enough of that already out there. It achieves absolutely nothing having negative votes, all it does is make people think more negatively as they jump on the bandwagon to negatise.

My view of the positive ratings is that they should be used by those people who identify useful information and want to tag it so that others (particularly new people who at this early stage of their ethnobotanical journey) are prompted to stop, think, and absorb this information which they otherwise may have glossed over.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Alice

[lickapop]

My 2c. ... That sounds too much like a government taking away choices and freedoms.

This system definitely sorted the men and woman from the boys and girls

Maybe I'm out of line

[ballzac]

...OR, you could keep the neg button, but the rating shows both poses and negs. A post that has gave 50 negs and 50 poses is clearly different to one that has had no votes, yet they appear the same. Those who choose to ignore negs can then do so.

[hutch]

Thank you

 

I apologize FancyPants...Torston set me straight...I didn't do it at first as I agree with it's stupidity but I honestly thought it was you trashing me and during a moment of red wine induced fun.....It was fun at the time cause I honestly thought it was you.....I did it...I wonder just how many others here have done the same thing? Remeber that please before you throw stones...we can check...Look what happened to my rep? My first time I have ever done it ( Torston can confirm if you like) and not my best moment I agree....and you were dead right FancyPants... I didn't deny it because I would not intentionally lie.....But no body and I mean nobody like's to see there rep trashed....Sorry I made the mistake of thinking it was you....

Forgive me

Hutch...

A quick ps...I was drafting a PM to you FancyPants but once I saw it was now public I thought best to put it here...not complaining it is public....thats what ya get....oh what a wicked web so they say...but I didn't lie..that is inportant to me I just didn't own up

Edited January 21, 2011 by hutch

[C_T]

the only change i could see, would be to keep the system, but make it so its not anonymous. Make it viewable, accountability will stop the abuse.

[Rabaelthazar]

I second C_T's suggestion.

[ballzac]

It might make retaliatory negs more prevalent though.

[mutant]

I second Alice, Ballzacs and C_T suggestions for improving the voting system.

Entering the schoolyeard now. lickapop, I hope you include me in the boyz, not men, huh?

Don't get this wrong, this is not about points or even Teotz, this is about T. Especially since that gomaos VS ED drama surfaced and I had the unique opportunity to watch T as a judge, detective etc.

T, abuse detective and trollinator

read with a grain of salt, or not, according to your personal tastes and bias

9 negatize in 11 minutes.

Selective presentation of data. In how many different threads? Why don't you also share what kind of posts these were - those I negatized - and whether they were negatized by others or only by me? Why don't you compare it with my posts Teotz negatized to see the full picture?

How can someone redeem himself if any improvements he makes are ignored on the basis of his past? teotz has been trying hard to get his negs down, so to assume he doesn't car whether it is -40 or -80 isn't fair. Anyway, he got the same punishment as you [flipped negs] and a weeks suspension.

first of all, redemption is for the more religious/believers of our group, not me. For me improvement is more than enough - only I never saw much of it in Teotz, especially in terms of discussion abilities and toning down his arrogance or trying not to be annoying and/or plain stupid. What I did see though was f.e. 3 posts stating "No, it's not a salvia divinorum" , when this had been said a couple of times by previous posters or 3 posts of "Yep, that's a cuzco" in a thread discussing cuzcoids! I never even negatized all of them, I think I just joked about the SD thread f.e. like others did, I might be wrong. But I found the SD thread was more funny than it was annoying or plain stupid.

teotz has been trying hard to get his negs down, so to assume he doesn't car whether it is -40 or -80 isn't fair.

fair enough, maybe -40 is different from -80 in a system that works, in the only forum he is able to write. But yeah, each one has his own goals. IMO it would take lots of effort in the style and tone of Teotz to get positives. Or, much easier, just post more cool photos [hint]. Seeing you stating he has made lots of effort to improve his rep, maybe this is the problem exactly. You don't try hard to fix your reputation. Fix yourself instead. Unfortunately, I have to state another greek saying [we got lots and lots of them]

"you'd better get your eye popped out , rather than make a bad name of yourself"

Anyways. You don't try to fix your reputation. But if you are really that needy of a reputation, and don't wanna share photos, money will do the job. Don't offer to bride, just buy cactus and other shit from ozzie members.

Anyway, he got the same punishment as you [flipped negs] and a weeks suspension.

Alright... When exactly did I do 45 negatives [from +35 to -12] to Teotz that day? You said, I got some negatives from some people, apparently for my attitude to Teotz, and so this enabled you tell me my repies to Teotz are not as popular as I might have thought they were. You also said people positized me also, but this was abuse, so this got reversed. Help me out a bit, cause the maths confused me.

So those that negatized me because of this incident were OK, because they were protecting Teotz from an my attack/bullying. Those that positized me cause they thought I was right to be annoyed and Teotz was right to be negatizing - those got reversed, and that is an abuse... Am I following this right, T?

So, in conclusion, in a shitfight between too persons, let's admit both are somewhat shitstirrers, YOU, T, will decide which are the abuse votes and which are the good ones, according to who you sympathize or pity most. IE from all those people who vote to support or negatize each individual part, you decide which is decent support, which is trolling which is bullying and so on am I right?

A person with a more solid understanding of justice though would think that you should either accept positives and negatives by third people as opinions [not serially though] or undo all who obviously by voting + or - they express an opinion on the debate.

I am saying so because you have to:

1) accept negatives from other people to me as good votes

2) those I gave to Teotz [rightfully I argue!!] are reversed upon me as ytou said [11 you said?]

3) undo the positives people gave me

to have that sort of rep results AND THEN SOME , unless you also, reversed all the negatives I have given Teotz over time as abuse [??!?!??!?!]

So where are we at now??

Teotz is now -108 . Lulz. I am +4 now. What's the message of this ?

Don't fuck with mutant!

back to quoting, I never liked maths too much.

only because people use it without knowing what it does. ratigns are everywhere on the web now, so get used to it.

the same with psychedelics. Let people know how a weapon works and how it might misfire before giving it to them.

What bugged me is the sense of being wronged by T, who wrote me off like a bully shit-stirrer.

HUH? you stir teotz up at every opportunity.

ok, I'm fine with this if you admit all of my shit stirring was with Teotz which actually logically equals Teotz = shit. I actually take the word bully quite seriously. And what exactly do you regard an "opportunity" ?

You can openly suggest to ignore or block them [still haven't found this one] so as we don't have to build a special behaviour towards him or try to ignore him and maybe, just maybe why he is allowed to lie about his gender [if it's a marketing trick then I wonder who thought it up], making all of us who periodically want to kill him wanting to fuck her instead, which would be a fine scenario, if it were the truth, which apparently it isn't [there go my wet dreams... and I even like chubbies]

then you complain about him abusing the point system even though you had done it yourself.

I mostly complained about him sending me PMs serially. By the time I understood how Teotz had done this with my rep, later that day, I figured out all of my negative voting were causing the same in peoples reputations. Sorry if you cannot distinguish the difference, I am not saying I am an innocent victim, I said I always voted honestly about posts I found bad, harmproducing or plain stupid. I never intended for ruining Teotz reputation, even if I gradually contributed to it long term - besides Teotz reputation is already ruined, for now.

And after this incident, his rep is even lower, which is pretty lulzy, by the way, seeing you stating that I was the provocatuer and Teotz the innocent victim bullied but your decision and not mine had his reputation -45 points or something lower.

I reversed all point abuse and gave teotz some time out.

It seems me rating went -2 from -12 and now its +4. Someones is abusing the system or likes to watch photos of cacti damaged by snow , dunno, I am saying it looks like an abuse. I mean, people gave me positive votes. Maybe check out if they are genuinly voting for my posts or just helping me raise my rep?

you didn't even get a warning point like others who have abused the system.

alright, this is unfair! How come didn't I get a warning? You have to explain yourself about this mister, because you still make me appear [by the selective interpretation of the votes YOU ONLY see] as the schoolyear bully or something. I might be lots of things, but a bully I am not. If Teotz is mentally challenged, T, let us know. I would never negatize a lesser human. I am negatizing a human that poses as the know-all type. I always like the weak, well not the arrogant weak, I admit.

And just for the record, from what i can work out, you started negatizing teotz about 2 hours before he started on you. in schoolyard terminology that means you started it.

thanks a lot for taking the time to find schoolyeard arguements to support Teotz against me.

I am proud of the fact I have been honest about my negative voting. I never did it on purpose to bad-rep. I would never do it, even if I was the shit-stirrer , bully or the attention seeking whore C_T implied on me noticing my reputation points.

The reason?

because I'm smart enough to know I shouldn't mess with Teotz if I care about my reputation or wanna be more popular. Why?

1st , a greek saying : 'those than mess with the bran get eaten by the hens'

2nd*** Teotz reputation is lousy. Why would I go on to neg him, unless I was genuinly annoyed by posts that repeated them selves some 3-4 times within the same thread saying the same stupid thing.

3rd*** Idiots are unbeatable.

Edited January 22, 2011 by mutant

[solomon]

maybe an undo button for the positive/negative rep thing would help as i've accidentally negatized and positized a couple of people.

or i could just watch where i'm clicking/leaving my cursor.

[Torsten]

People aren't using it correctly (in general)

actually, most people are using it correctly. It's just a few bad apples, and as usual I am not comfortable bending to the will of a few who try to spoil it for everyone else.

Yes I realise that as you say rating are everywhere on the web, but that doesn't make it a good thing or mean that it's something that is suited for every situation that we should necessarily adopt.

I personally do think that a 'like' or positive button is a good thing as it saves many 'i agree' posts. It also show someone who posted an article or comment just how appreciated that article/comment is

The changes you propose would be good, but they are not available for the software yet. I'll see if the developers have something like this in mind.

I do also agree that it would be nice to see sums of the parts rather than the total. peoplewho post controversial topics are likely to get many positives AND many negatives, which is different than someone who gets none of either.

My view of the positive ratings is that they should be used by those people who identify useful information and want to tag it so that others (particularly new people who at this early stage of their ethnobotanical journey) are prompted to stop, think, and absorb this information which they otherwise may have glossed over.

That is what the THREAD rating system is probably better suited for.

[Torsten]

maybe an undo button for the positive/negative rep thing would help as i've accidentally negatized and positized a couple of people.

or i could just watch where i'm clicking/leaving my cursor.

 

I've done that plenty of times. seem to have a problem matching the button with my intention. I fix it by equalising it out.

[Torsten]

C_T, making it transparent would be my top choice, although i doubt mutant could give a shit about whether teotz knows he negatised him, so it wouldn't stop that sort of abuse.

I've had a think about what Alice and others have said and also had a look at what the software options are. As it is only the negative votes that are causing a problem and as there is a setting to only allow positives, i have opted for this. I've had a look at my facebook account and even though I was very excited when I installed the 'dislike' button, I've only used it maybe half a dozen times in about as many months. It appears a negative button is not really all that essential after all.

I have also set the forum to highlight posts that get 15 positives. That way we should be able to improve the way we see quality content.

[ThunderIdeal]

edit, didn't see last post

thus ratings were never discussed again.

Edited January 22, 2011 by ThunderIdeal

[mutant]

cool

this has been mostly sorted out in PMs, at least in my head.

hey teotz, we seem to have finally archieved something good, as a team: the abolition of negative votings!

T I think its the wisest choice given the software capabilities

peoplewho post controversial topics are likely to get many positives AND many negatives, which is different than someone who gets none of either.

seconded

I am quite satisfied despite the hangover from last nights beers. cheers.

Edited January 22, 2011 by mutant

[hutch]

I need to blow into a bag on my puter and if I'm pissed it wont let me comment....I would not have any issues then.....

[Alice]

That's excellent Torsten.

cheers

[Sheather]

Was slightly confused about what mutant said, but now I went to positise a comment - no red circle?!

I'm fairly sure this will be a good change though.

[Amazonian]

Full on Torsten. I do feel a little mean though, as this place is your baby and all, and some of us have whinged about the rating system ( more than once) . I like the idea of positive votes only, 'cause you know, as mum always said "if you haven't got something nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Edited January 23, 2011 by Amazonian

[rahli]

I do also agree that it would be nice to see sums of the parts rather than the total. peoplewho post controversial topics are likely to get many positives AND many negatives, which is different than someone who gets none of either.

 

Let's hope that the dissaperance of the neg button doesn't encourage point scorers to be more controversial without any consequence of loosing their hard earned points.

Cause a shit fight, pat everyone on the back that agrees with you and win a heap of points.