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J Smith

Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences

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I only just learnt of the CSIRO back in 1964 synthesising mescaline from a precursor back in certain Eucalyptus species. Considering this, could we expect those species to become illegal under the proposed laws, or does that precursor have to be listed specifically?

Would it be a bad idea to make several submission from various email addresses?

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You will also have to include a name with your submission, so you would have to use a false name which would probably count as fraud.

I have noted that many of the submissions I have read on other issues always include "thankyou for the opportunity to make a submission". Just a bit of politeness won't hurt ;).

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In what manner are people here tackling the questions? Some of them are a bit like "Are you still beating your wife?"

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Just posted on GetUp!:

Kelsey Cooke

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your enthusiastic involvement in this campaign suggestion! It's great see so much impassioned discussion in one thread.

We've been gathering as much background as we can on the illegalisation of these plants, and we've been investigating the viability of running a campaign.

At this stage, it looks unlikely that GetUp will be launching a campaign. While it's drawn a great deal of traction amongst our members, it takes more than just a great idea to make a campaign - it takes a 'moment' in which we feel the campaign will be most effective for achieving its goal. We're also committed to focusing on issues that we feel are neglected in public discussion, as the well as ideas such as this that have a great deal of existing community support.

We're not done looking into the issue - and it will take time and a great deal more background research before we could launch a campaign, especially on such a complex and easily misunderstood issue. This isn't to say we're not taking your suggestions on board! Due to limited time and resources, we're currently focusing our efforts on campaigns that you've encouraged us to take on in the past. So keep the suggestions and enthusiasm coming - you, as our members, are the fuel for the campaigns we'll run in the future.

Thanks again!

No surprises here, really...

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No, no surprises at all. It's about time they made an appearance.

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I'm sure that GetUp! is wondering if they might get away with closing down the comments on this petition. It's making them look pretty lame that they won't act on an issue that has twice the support (and still growing) than the next most popular petition.

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can somebody please cut and paste one of the submissions that are already floating around, (as mentioned by Torsten above).

perhaps including a step by step process of how to send it to the relevant people.

I have had a brief look around and cannot find one. I honestly do not have the time right now to write a well researched referenced document and I think that although heartfelt pleas to the governments common sense are nice they do not hold weight.

Is there a document out there that steers well clear of the alkaloids / compounds within the plants being the main concern and just focuses on the proposed laws being difficult because the plants are so common and important to gardeners?

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Thank you Tripsis,

That will do :) if anyone else uses that template just note that there are a couple of typo's and grammatical errors...

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i received a response from adam bandts (greens senate member for melbourne) office today,

"Many thanks for raising this issue with Adam’s office. We are currently looking into the issue and thank you for bringing it to our attention."

was what the spokes woman said, fairly benign/useless response, but at least they acknowledged me.

maybe i'll send one to that independent from tassie, maybe that guy who spoke for 12 years deciding who he'd side with,

at any rate, if someones finished with a pamphlet/poster idea post it up here in a jpg or pdf and i'll print it off and distribute it at uni,

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I'm sure that GetUp! is wondering if they might get away with closing down the comments on this petition. It's making them look pretty lame that they won't act on an issue that has twice the support (and still growing) than the next most popular petition.

 

Suggests an enormous lack of moral fibre on the part of the organisation.

Shamefull to sit by while nature becomes banned.

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at any rate, if someones finished with a pamphlet/poster idea post it up here in a jpg or pdf and i'll print it off and distribute it at uni,

 

Well, I made up one using Amazonian's text and one of our members' pics from the gallery. I can't say it's fantastic in design, but if no one else has anything done, something may be better than nothing.post-1298-0-37763100-1297854479_thumb.jp

flyer.jpg

flyer.jpg

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thanks for the flyer. we'll put this into the shop and into mail orders.

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Nice choice of photo ;)

In working on my submission, I've come to a question that IO don't know the answer for: What exactly is the legal implication of a plant being in part B rather than Part A of Schedule II? If the government spokesperson's comments about 'backyard growers' not being impacted by these new laws were at all accurate, then would other Part B plants be OK to grow a few of?

Another odd thing: the GardenFreedom.com page is setting off some sort of filter/blocklist in my Uni's system. Not sure what that is about.

I've been doing a lot of research on the PR industry lately. It's a pity we don't have the cash to hire one of these PR firms that can produce a Video News Release and guarentee to get your story on the news.

Edit: punctuation.

Edited by Yeti101

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Has anyone brought up the point that this will make very common grasses (Phalaris) a prohibited plant?

This would make a lot of farmers potential criminals

Edited by centipede

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Excellent Ballzac exactly what I would pick up and read or tear off the slip if I was a passer by!

Ones going on the back window of the ute and the rest of the town's going to cop a flogging :lol:

One thing,I'm outta black ink with a stupid HP DeskjetF2410 that doesn't mix ink,not sure if it will print all but I'll give it a go.If it's only the tear-offs,I'll change the colour!

@centipede,I think so in the GetUp page, it grows wild in ditches everywhere here and the council can't control it LOL what about the Toads!(5MEO-DMT,BUFO),they can't stop those buggers either....they'd have to Super the native bush if they want to stop funguys.....I can't see too much changing.

Although there's been chemtrails here of late and people getting hay-fever,headaches,etc including myself and I don't ever get it!!!...man it really makes ya wonder.

Took some photo's and they aint normal contrails....anyhoo enough conspiracy dribble :rolleyes:

Good work guys :worship:

EDIT: Printer Works!

LOL got 6 copies out of her.

I'm off down the street!

Edited by mescalito

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hey guys, just wondering why the gardenfreedom website has a dot com after it?... shouldn't we be stressing above all that these plants deserve to exist regardless of whether they make money or not?... some people may think the website has been created by a company with vested interests?...

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spoke to Michael at gardenfreedom.com... the .com was chosen as it performs fastest on google... people can also use .net or .org to get to the same site if they wish...

keep up the good work :)

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So GetUp got back to me....to inform that the suggestion has been declined. Seems they didn't want to receive any more negative comments in the thread on their website. Thus, the campaign suggestion is no longer to be found in the Campaign Suggestions Forum.

To quote the last comment by them:

Again, I'd like to reiterate Kelsey's comments - just because a campaign suggestion here receives a large number of votes, doesn't mean its a suitable GetUp campaign.

This is a public forum open to everyone, not just GetUp members. It's a place for anyone to have their say, and its a great way to gauge interest in new issues. However, any campaigns we run have to have the backing of the majority of our own community. Any suggestions that become popular on here are researched into further. If they are seen as factually correct, and potentially viable, we survey a sample of our membership to check that the levels of support for an idea reflected on this site, are reflected amongst the membership. It's very easy for interest groups to rally support from their own members to bump up the number of votes for an idea on suggest.getup.org.au, which is why we have a range of measures in place to gauge community support on different issues. At the end of the day, the campaigning priorities of our membership are at the forefront of our campaigning decisions.

Edited by tripsis

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Has anyone thought more about getting some kind of group going that can campaign about this stuff?

There needs to be some kind of central network that people can coordinate action, get information through etc. I have a feeling that this legislation will pass no matter how many submissions are sent in... and if that happens I hope people are willing to keep fighting this.

I'd do it myself - but honestly I think people who have some kind of standing in the entheo community need to do it for it to be credible.

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Seems like the crew at getup dupe the public into believing they can make a difference so they can push their own agenda.

At least they have come out right out and admitted it.

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They're losing a lot of support over this. Watch the disappointed comments roll on...

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Maybe we should wait until the snake sticks it's head out and THEN grab it,throttle it and make some noise and go back to business as usual.

I only dropped off a couple..one at the CHEMIST LOL.....then realised that it would be stupid to raise awareness that could back-fire on me/us being collectors as there are a lot of dicks and bogans that might just end up jumping my fence and raiding my garden and others' too causing garden anarchy....I'm probably the only ethnobotanist in town,though there are cacti collectors I want to meet :wink:

Reason being is we are pretty much expecting them to be as well informed,passionate and caring of our work,our plants and what we do with them.

I wouldn't put a flyer up in a pub for this reason and I was,but folded it up and just had a beer as I looked around at the pill-head/piss-head people around me thinking "this is wrong....this is what they want!".

They never really had a reason before,but I'd hate to think that we gave them one. Many here know of my collection and passion for cacti.....they know where I live!

Some might see it then as a list of things to start stealing on their drunken swagger home past my joint and others',then the local cops get in to stop it as they should...it's their job,THEN it becomes a so called "DRUG/PLANT PROBLEM",then ironically OVER PUBLICISED and you can gaurantee certain plants and locals ARE going to be watched like criminals.

Just a reverse thought,like "how would I get these "ferrals" into suits and conform? Hmmm.... "

This was floating in my head from the start.

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"how would I get these "ferrals" into suits and conform? Hmmm.... "

 

Substitute fluoride for something else :wink:

I have been sending the flyer/posters to a few nurseries and Zoo's and have some in the car so when i am going past a place that i think is suitable, I'll stop there and pin one up. (Drawing pins are crap these days ,aren't they! ) I will take some posters to The Melbourne Botanical gardens next weekend and post some there.

Edited by Amazonian

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I have a feeling that this legislation will pass no matter how many submissions are sent in... and if that happens I hope people are willing to keep fighting this.

 

At least some of the legislation will pass. If not all of it goes ahead this time, the rest will go through in future proposals. They will cite 'drug' busts where people have been busted with illegal plants after this lot of legislation goes through, as evidence that the changes were necessary in order to catch criminals. It will make no difference if the people busted were not planning on using these plants for drug purposes, because these people will now have a drug offence on their record and have lost all credibility. It's that easy. Next lot of legislation will have less opposition because more growers will have lost hope, and there will also be more plants on the new list. Don't be surprised if you see D. curiosa on a subsequent schedule. The people who make these laws clearly need to keep finding things to ban or they would be out of a job. I really don't think these laws come about due to pandering to the public fear of drugs, as there simply has been little public knowledge of these plants anyway.

We just have to remember that prohibitionist thinking is a blip on the timeline. People have been persecuted for all sorts of things in the past and present, and their freedoms have been taken away. Whether it's music being banned by the Taliban, or left-handers being forced to use their right hand in past cultures, or the more recent (and somewhat still current) prejudice against homosexuals, we have to be aware that the bias against drugs is a cultural fad that will fade like the rest. Of course, the more proactive we are in speaking out against this, the more quickly this fad will pass. We are the ones who can make a difference. Unfortunately, the people most affected are the least likely to do anything about it. People all over the country are suffering poverty and death due to drug addictions that need not cause suffering to the extent that they do. Unfortunately, most of the victims of prohibition - the families of those suffering from addiction, and also the victims of drug related crime - are all too quick to jump on the prohibitionist bandwagon. The ethnobotany community, however, is a particularly intelligent and socially ethical subset of the wider community, and unlike a lot of the other intelligent and socially ethical people in the wider community, we have a vested interest in this and are more likely to be proactive than others.

Just realised the above comments strayed off-topic. Rant over.

Edited by ballzac
  • Like 3

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