Zhong Ma Huang

[random]

Apologies for my ignorance but is this plant illegal in Australia?

Has it ever been grown anywhere in Aus as an ornamental plant in the past?

I did a forum search but came up with nothing in regards to the name of this plant.

[tripsis]

Ephedra sinica? Not illegal to grow for ornamental purposes, but illegal to import, either seeds, herbage or live plants. Not sure of state laws.

[LikeAshesWeFade]

E. Sinica seems to be a hard bugger to come across in this forum! have an ask around and I'm sure you may be able to find some Ephedra Major plants.

[apothecary]

State laws are the kicker and it would be wise to be versed on these before attempts are procurement. Law enforcement seems to have a hard on for this genus.

Otherwise tripsis has it covered.

In regards to searching, try just "Ma Huang" with the inverted commas included, or Ephedra.

In my opinion a very very interesting plant I was glad to catch the talk Des Tramacchi gave at EGA last weekend which featured photos of young Iranian kids collecting Ephedra for the Zoroastrian yasna.

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/haoma/index.htm

[random]

Wow, thanks so much for posting that link, my favourite quote was

A guiding principle in Zoroastrian practices is to consume only that which promotes health, and only that which benefits both body and mind - while refraining from consuming anything (or quantities) that can cause harm.

This is what it should all be about hey. Awesome reading, being new here I have been reading alot of things without understanding wtf it all meant although this link has certainly shed some light on the subject of ephedra for me.

In addition, ephedra's extract has been used to treat colds, flu, coughing, wheezing, nasal congestion, fever, hay fever, chills, headaches, edema, hyperhydrosis, and bone pains.

Since Ephedrine acts quickly to reduce the swelling of the mucous membranes as well as dilating the bronchioles (bronchial vessels) in the lung by stimulating beta-andrenergic receptors. These properties help it to serve as an antispasmodic and as a treatment for asthma.

This is the part of ethnobotany that interest me, the medicinal effects of using plants.

The plant I was actually enquiring about was Ephedra intermedia but E sinica sounds equally as interesting.

cheers guys

[tripsis]

State laws are the kicker and it would be wise to be versed on these before attempts are procurement. Law enforcement seems to have a hard on for this genus.

Do you know where to access the state laws?

[apothecary]

Dunno where you are tripsis, how would I be able to tell you which state law to access?

Most states have their stuff setup like: http://legislation.STATE.gov.au for example VIC is http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/ but you need to examine yours individually.

Also good to keep in mind some states/territories have really stupid shit, like live plant definitions in QLD and poison schedules in ACT.

[tripsis]

In NSW, but would like to know each of the state laws anyway. I looked at that site yesterday, but searching out the term "ephedra" yielded SFA. Law site always manage to obscure information from me, maybe I'm looking for the wrong things on them.

I'll keep in mind things such as the poisons acts, etc, thanks for bringing them to my attention.

[apothecary]

In NSW, but would like to know each of the state laws anyway. I looked at that site yesterday, but searching out the term "ephedra" yielded SFA. Law site always manage to obscure information from me, maybe I'm looking for the wrong things on them.

I'll keep in mind things such as the poisons acts, etc, thanks for bringing them to my attention.

 

Hi tripsis I guess we are getting a little off topic now but that's ok I guess.

Searching "Ephedra" on legislation.nsw.gov.au definitely returns at least 1 hit from the "Drug and Alcohol Treatment Act 2007", where "Ephedra alkaloids" are listed as a schedule 1 substance "Stimulants & Hallucinogens":

STIMULANTS & HALLUCINOGENS—Ephedra alkaloids

Ephedrine (including Shabu)

Norephedrine

Pseudoephedrine (including Benadryl, Panadol Sinus, Sinutab, Sudafed, Nurofen Cold & Flu)

Ephedra Alkaloids, NEC

So it should at least return one hit to your search!

Ephedrine itself is listed in 3 NSW acts and 2 regulations.

[planthelper]

...but there are rumours that chinese herbalist still stock it, and no one cares as they used it for thousands of years...

i mean they get away with breaking the law as they are seen as not abusing the herb.

and that's how i would like the lawmakwers to see shamanism aswell,

we are healers, and can be trusted with the usage of all herbs!!

[hebrew]

but your chances of going into a tcm herbalist and asking for it and getting it are slim, most herbalists i know will say no we dont have it. even if they do. its such an important herb in chinese medicine, most wont part with it without knowing you very well, if they have it anyway. can take months of time spent talking about herbs and knowing chinese to really get the exciting chinese herbs, well what i percieve as exciting at least.

i read that page apoth posted briefly and i noticed they combine astralagus with ma huang, which is very interesting, these two herbs when combined together with another herb i forget about now maybe dang gui, was known as genghis khans energy formula or something like that, combined huang qi (astralagus) and ma huang create a nice stimulant, where both herbs support and extend each other, huang qi being very yin and ma huang yang. nourishing and clearing.

i think formulas are wonderful things, and how they work and the preperation of them is intriguing and you could dedicate your life to understanding the blending of herbs.

edit to say: when one takes too much ma huang, ma huang gen is used to counteract it, i love this, ma huang gen is the root of ephedra. if you got ma huang, ma huang gen is also useful to have in your herb collection. IMO

Edited December 10, 2010 by VelvetSiren

[tripsis]

Hey apoth, I did get that result, but I didn't find it particularly relevant to what I was looking for. Thanks though.

But back on topic...

I've often wondered if TCM herbalists would still stock it, but it makes sense that even if they did, you would have to be able to be trusted before they were willing to divulge that information to you or give you any. It would be even less likely that they would tell anyone they had it if all they were asking for was ma huang and nothing else.

[ENtiTY]

TCM's would have the same problem pharmacies have with pseudoE products if it was true that they do indeed stock the herb and it became word on the street so to speak. Shhh.

[kadakuda]

i sometimes drink astragalus root with ma huang as well. its stimulating, for sure. but need to go slow. my sister tried some and we almost took her to teh hospital as it was so speedy for her. ma huang also makes you sweat a lot, so here in the heat its not that nice to be honest.. dont drink it before work or you may offend the ladies lol.

[tripsis]

Which Astragalus species is used?

[planthelper]

i think formulas are wonderful things, and how they work and the preperation of them is intriguing and you could dedicate your life to understanding the blending of herbs.

edit to say: when one takes too much ma huang, ma huang gen is used to counteract it, i love this, ma huang gen is the root of ephedra. if you got ma huang, ma huang gen is also useful to have in your herb collection. IMO

 

i find the idea that the root might be an antidote totaly intruiging...

i might save the roots from now on...

[naja naja]

So VS are u still coming back home?

[hebrew]

nah bro, didnt take the job, didnt pay enough for perth's living costs, you guys over there are fuckign expensive, going to visit over the christmas holidays though for a short period. need to find a good camping spot near the coast somewhere between pemberton and perth. suggestions?

sorry that took the thread off topic

yes save your roots, slice and dry them, very good medicine on their own as well. cant recall what for off the top of my head but to have both energies in the one plant truly makes it a wonderful herb.

same with ruburb root, if you grow ruburb to eat, save the roots for medicine, its good for many things, good for lineaments too, it works for the blood it think has been a while, its tcm name is da huang, if i remember rightly

[Sola]

Very interesting, I'd like to try growing these plants as well but in the mean time I might have to go to tcm and become aquainted.

Would be really interesting to see the variety of plants and probably animals/ insects used.

I think dedicating ones life to the blending of herbs sounds like a worthy pursuit, many people have and still do.

Interesting with the use of the root as well, amazing how the ability to speed up and slow down is contained in the one plant.

[kadakuda]

just side note, "Zhong" means "grow" the plant name in chinese is just "Ma Huang"

[hebrew]

to be pedandtic zhong actually has a few meaning depending on spelling in chinese and pronounciation

example zhong also means centre/middle

chinese translation of zhong

[kadakuda]

ya, but that is a direct result of translating with pinyan, and also the different kinds of pinyan. Jong is the new middle. is a messy system, but middle and grow are different words in chinese, only in english romanization do they seem the same. I am a bigger fan of the newer pinyan, and also adding the tone at the end of each syllable.

its funny going around here cause many city/town names use "middle". and with the different methods of translation going down a huge main freeway the first ext sign says "Zhong", next says "Jong" and the last says "Chung". i constantly bug my wife about it, to the point she must be plotting my murder lol.

I am not sure about china, but here in taiwan the different species of ephedra have different common mandarin names. just like English we have mormon tea and all those types of things. i honestly don't get why we use chinese translations for so many plant names...why sinica has ma huang, but another has mormon tea? but there we have it.

language is funky.

[Thelema]

Nearly all TCM herbalists DO have it. Most of them will restrict it to you in amounts of 50g or less - my one does. Do go in and speak to them, most TCM people are very very nice people and probably share a lot of your feelings about plants.

[kadakuda]

ya for sure. even here in taiwan when i first went in and asked for a few KG they didnt want to sell to me cause they thought i was making meth. talking to them and discussing your true intentions, unless your actually doing chem work lol, will go a long way...

[Thelema]

yeah, especially, if you want to walk in and buy 50g, ask for 50g and at least have an idea about what it is used for in TCM. Like, man, it's not used for losing weight or feeling activated...I think diahorreah is a good one to talk to them about.