burqa bann

[planthelper]

one time i drove my car, and i swear, a lady dressed in a burqa entered the intersection at the same time as me, but i could not read her intentions, because of the burqa.

if it comes to traffic, one has to be able to, express trust onto the other person,

we do this all the time, even without realising it.

the face gives it away, if the other person will, give way, or force say way of right,

the face tells, if a person wants to cross the road or not, burqas have the potential to endanger life, and ought to banned.

apart from totaly degrading woman, i say, ban the burqa, good on ya frog president!

[FancyPants]

Apart from places where security and safety are an issue, ie court houses, go karts, I absolutely do not support a ban on anybody's right to adorn themselves as they see fit as long as it's harming or intruding on nobody else. Many Islamic men demand women wear them, but if we stoop ourselves to the same level by banning them then I think we're no better. I agree PH that in some cases like driving it could be potentially dangerous because of the reduced visibility, but really there's a damn lot of people who can't drive anyway or wear hats too low or whatever. Not as convincing that lol but I still HATE laws encroaching on my personal freedom so I don't want to do the same to others.

[Auxin]

I never understood what the big deal was.

When driving I dont trust anyone anyway and always err on the side of caution. I wouldnt want to rely on facial expression for my safety, I could be killed by someone elses flatulence!

As for being able to recognize people instantly at a glance, when has that ever been a law.. and why should it be!!?! I'd like the freedom to be anonymous. When will we be outfitted with ID number tattoos on our foreheads?

Why are faces so important in courthouses? If some woman wants to wear a burqa or hijab take a pic of her right hand for her ID, it'd be just as reliable as a face pic. I could easily spot my hand in a lineup of 100 hands.

I, for one, tend to look at peoples asses as much as their faces, I even recognize many people by their ass I say we require everyone to walk around bare arsed!

In my town theres quite a few women in headscarves and some in full burqas, I never really particularly even noticed until all this 'controversy' (thinly 'veiled' bigotry) started and I think arguments about security are outright laughable for the simple reason that these women moved here to work in the nuke plant and the largest chemical weapons depot in the western US, these families are trusted around enough plutonium to build 1000 nukes as well as 40,000 TONS (literally) of VX nerve gas, and much more, yet some minimum wage gas station attendant refuses to sell them a bottle of water for cash out of 'security concerns' because he can only see her eyes... while at the same time he's happy to sell packs of razor blades to 15 yr old meth addicts.

Fucking Please!

[occidentalis]

Unless there is a clear risk to public safety, I don't think anyone should be required or prevented from wearing whatever they want.

That means men who force their wives to wear the burqa would be committing a crime, and it also means women who choose to wear the burqa should be allowed to.

Planthelper - that's what indicator lights are for.

[btotl]

Unless there is a clear risk to public safety, I don't think anyone should be required or prevented from wearing whatever they want.

 

Or consuming whatever we want!

[Rabelais]

That means men who force their wives to wear the burqa would be committing a crime, and it also means women who choose to wear the burqa should be allowed to.

 

Bingo. It really is not that difficult is it.

It really is a triviality in my opinion. Any occasional security issue that pops up is outweighed by the preservation of individual freedoms.

But then again, many would call me an extremist civil libertarian...when did libertarian become a dirt word anyway.

[mr me]

I am of the opinion that I should be able to were a ski mask into a bank if I want- I know sounds extreme, but I think personal freedom is important and as long as I'm not committing any crimes then what does it matter. If we actually punished people for their wrong doings then maybe we would not have so much crime. There are circumstances were seeing a persons face is important like court cases or even service related jobs.

I think it is sad that these women live in these prisons, closed off from the rest of the world just because their husbands are insecure.

[Auxin]

A great many (probably the great majority of) women who wear the burqa outside of the middle east do so out of their own free will and are not forced into it by their husbands. They explain it as following personal religious conviction or observing their idea of modesty. There are other forms of the same thing in the west.. say for instance people wearing clothes even in nice weather, thats actually a law! people are being forced by law to wear these expensive to buy and bothersome to maintain clothes for someone elses neurosis born out of religious extremism! Exactly what people are saying about burqas.

I dont know why I have to be forced to wear christian costumes, in my religious tradition its fine to get nekkid and smear myself with ashes before going about my day but nooo, gotta be oppressed just like the burqa women are.

[-YT-]

Auxin on a modest day

[nabraxas]

There are other forms of the same thing in the west..

in Greece & Italy many women, especially widows, will only wear black clothes & a black head scarf.

It'll be 30+ degrees & they'll be going about their business in these heavy black numbers.

[mr b.caapi]

piss it off.

[jay6785]

It is not up to anyone but the individual to decide what they wear and what thier faith is.

For those people saying security purposes only, I can imagine that wearing coloured suits depending on your income or area with numbers on them would do great things for security and police alike. Maybe put 'druggie scum' in red uniform, will help alot especially as 'druggie scum' are a security concern.

Should think about living in a world where government can tell you what to dress. It annoys me that I cannot go outside naked without idiots thinking a natural human body would damage thier children. Or that womens breasts are somehow rude and immoral and also cause damage to children. To me that is just as stupid as people wearing the burqa.

It really amazes me that people want to ban how someone can dress in the name of freedom? Sounds like usual population control methods to me. Bascially governments don't like islam because islamic people believe sharia law is higher than governments, therefore it is hard to use a false sense of nationalism to unite people together to do stupid shit.

Edited September 13, 2010 by jay6785

[planthelper]

you say, indicators make facial expressions unnecessary in traffic conditions?

no, you are wrong, what about 4 cars comming to an intersection at excactly the same time?

all have to give way to right, and it (way of right to go) goes in an instant circle, and can only be sorted by hand movment and facial expression.

i think the burga is a jail for woman, and leads to sexuall abuse, but, i will not go in detail why i think that.

btw, in iran they banned man from wearing pony tails, which i think sucks as i wear one....

probably would get stoned (with real stones, ouch) there, just for how i like wearing my hair.

[FancyPants]

PH, imagine men wearing ponytails weren't as acceptable here either and some people here wanted to ban the male ponytail because in some countries it's a sign of religious persecution. Now ponytails don't hide the face so for my own personal opinion on burqas which is they shouldn't be allowed in only strict security and safety issues, so that argument doesn't hold with the ponytails. BUT, many Islamic women actually want to wear their burqas because THEY believe it is respectful to their religion and they themselves don't actually mind, so why should people (males and females) dictate to her that she shouldn't be allowed; in my mind, that is just as bad as the men in Islamic countries dictating what she should be allowed to wear.

[Chiral]

What is the point of this thread...?

it appears to be nothing more than veiled bigotry, how can you see someones face from behind and they make a turn and cut you off...I can't ever recall in my entire driving life ever using someones facial expression to assses what they are about to do in their car.

B Caapi ...piss what off...?

how bout if the gov't decides that you can't wear thongs or sunglasses when driving...should we piss them off as well.

I'm appalled at the lack of empathy here sometimes when it comes to any conversations relating to islam or muslims in general and this pathetic on going national argument about what a woman decides to wear as part of her heritage and culture.

My first place of residence in this country was in Lakemba when my folks immigrated here and we had Muslim people all around us and they where the kindest and caring folks and at the time we needed it because my dad had no job and we were just barely living...a Muslim lady next door used to bring around food and offer to help my mum with raising me and washing the clothes etc...she wore a veil everyday.

My mother in law also wears one everyday...i'd be more worried about chicks wearing big black fashionable sunnies and talking on the iphones whilst driving rather than any Muslim woman wearing a veil...which I might ad there would be very few of as they are not big on driving rather use public transport a lot more.

I'm sick to the stomach at the lack of empathy when it comes to some of the attitudes here regarding personal freedoms, hypocritical comes to mind.

[FancyPants]

how bout if the gov't decides that you can't wear thongs or sunglasses when driving...should we piss them off as well.

 

By the by, I think wearing thongs while driving are actually illegal because of the possibility of getting them stuck under the pedals. So, safety issue there

[mr b.caapi]

What is the point of this thread...?

it appears to be nothing more than veiled bigotry, how can you see someones face from behind and they make a turn and cut you off...I can't ever recall in my entire driving life ever using someones facial expression to assses what they are about to do in their car.

B Caapi ...piss what off...?

how bout if the gov't decides that you can't wear thongs or sunglasses when driving...should we piss them off as well.

I'm appalled at the lack of empathy here sometimes when it comes to any conversations relating to islam or muslims in general and this pathetic on going national argument about what a woman decides to wear as part of her heritage and culture.

My first place of residence in this country was in Lakemba when my folks immigrated here and we had Muslim people all around us and they where the kindest and caring folks and at the time we needed it because my dad had no job and we were just barely living...a Muslim lady next door used to bring around food and offer to help my mum with raising me and washing the clothes etc...she wore a veil everyday.

My mother in law also wears one everyday...i'd be more worried about chicks wearing big black fashionable sunnies and talking on the iphones whilst driving rather than any Muslim woman wearing a veil...which I might ad there would be very few of as they are not big on driving rather use public transport a lot more.

I'm sick to the stomach at the lack of empathy when it comes to some of the attitudes here regarding personal freedoms, hypocritical comes to mind.

 

Yeh, true mate. I was being a bit harsh. I have had trouble with Muslims in the past and i guess im just guilty of stereo-typing them.

[incognito]

freedom of choice- hey if she wants to wear it- good on her, as long as it complys with aussie laws, like being able to take a shot of her face for passport/licence etc, and she would be willing to display her face for identification purposes, of course in a culturaly respectful way and treating her with upmost dignity. I mean it would be tricky for say bank workers and whatnot to id her if she lost her bank card and shit to do an over the counter transaction.

If its forced upon her by family/partner then well IMO thats in contradiction to domestic violence laws.

Howeve just to display a bit of the red on my neck i do believe if you are going to migrate here to australia u must also be willing to abide and comply with all laws set in place.

i agree with chiral though never have i relied on facial expression to determine which way a car is going or if its gonna stop.

I think people can jump to extremes on the whole burqa thang, but i would always keep it in mind that some moslem women want to wear it to comply with their beliefs. I see it no more nasty than wearing a man on a cross in imense pain around your neck. thats hideous.

Edited September 14, 2010 by incognito

[planthelper]

yeah, thats what i said, you would not be even aware of how facial expressions are very important to traffic safty, the two of you. believe me, put a few people in burgas in some cars and let them drive, let's say in rome, hahaha.

i find it disgusting that you chiral, but my post into a total different light,

if you can't see how bugas are a securety risk, than thats your problem, but don't post in a style which makes me look anti islamic, because i am not, you shit stirer.

[sapito]

if you are going to migrate here to australia u must also be willing to abide and comply with all laws set in place.

 

What about drug laws? Or is it only the privileged class that can chose which laws they like to follow and ignore?

This thread is pathetic. Its pretty clear that its got little to do with driving and is about the fact you just dont agree with a cultural practice.

maybe spend the energy on trying to build compassion and acceptance

[incognito]

comply with laws~

im more talking about laws pertaining to identification requiremens for boarding planes, RTA, banking etc etc.

im all for cultural acceptance and religious freedom, but damn, would make it hard when t comes to compying with these id requirements when wearing a burka, not saying its smething that could not be worked around or worked out.

[incognito]

you know whats dangerous to road saftey? hot chicks in bikinis.

i lived on the northern beaches for a time, and u would be amazed at how many accidents they cause.seriously.

if they where wearing burqas we would never have that problem.

Edited September 14, 2010 by incognito

[Chiral]

The worst car accident I was ever involved in and totally my fault was a chicks who's dress blew up with the wind when crossing over chevron island bridge in my little Audi fox I was driving at the time...I rear ended 6 cars and totaled my Audi to a crumpled wreck.

apart from totaly degrading woman, i say, ban the burqa, good on ya frog president!

you are projecting your views as those which we all agree too...why does it degrade women...? does an Indian woman feel degraded in her sari or does a monk feel degraded in his orange robes..?

You seem to forget that these people are religious and have a very strong faith and belief in their god..they choose to wear the burqa, veil or not..it is not a requirement but i don't think you know that do you because millions of Muslim women don't wear any veils it's personal choice.

If you are having a lot of difficulty in life due to the many burqa wearing women then perhaps you might want to move to a place where there are less or lets say none at all...I believe the north Shore of Sydney or Toorak in Melbourne may be rather low on burqa wearing dangerous drivers.

you can bait me all you want PH but you started this pathetic thread and if you think for one second that any one is going to army up with you on this one then I I'd say you'd be sorely mistaken.

PH you say I put your post in a disgusting light...I'm afraid it was already disgusting to begin with, so I fail to see how anything i posted was even remotely directed at you or calling it as such.

How many people have been or felt under any sort of danger or threat because of a veil or burqa...?

no seriously...I'm more worried about red back spiders or even meteors hitting me than any piece of cloth that is considered a cultural garment.

[incognito]

That means men who force their wives to wear the burqa would be committing a crime, and it also means women who choose to wear the burqa should be allowed to.

bang on in my books occy!!

[shoes]

Should be allowed to wear what ever when ever, though if a court requires removal then fine and a hijab would suffice,same as women being required to wear non revealing clothes in some countries, as for driving i believe it to be a slight risk as it can hamper the wearers vision, but I really wouldn't know, I just no I can't drive wearing a hoodie with the hood on, though. Inability to read another drivers expression dosnt bother me that much nor would it differ to entering a round about,intersection, Whatevs at night time or with a car with tinted windows, a little.acceptance from both sides would help a lot but then again so would the removal of all organised religion no matter how long its been established,

I think driving with thongs is illegal for the reason mentiond, but why is barefoot driving illegal but driving in heels isn't, also why can women wear thongs to a pub but guys can't?