T. cordobensis

[M S Smith]

Rob and Lance look to be the same plant. If so then I would say it, like Lance, is the longer spined form of T. scopulicola.

I really like Alf.

~Michael~

[Micromegas]

I still don't think the cordo and the super ped are the same, at least not the two varieties i have in my garden. i am inclined to believe the lance has much of super pedro in it however tho i do not have this plant. to be definitive i will know when the super ped grows out a bit to match against the cordo. nor do i think the one next to the spade is the same as the cordo but it could be super ped, i'll have to wait and see.

i am admittedly a diagnostic hack but the cordo retains a roundness and blueness that super ped has not demonstrated in my climate where all but the most glaucous of plants have a tendency to be dark green in summer and light green to slightly yellow in mid-winter if they are growing in the clay soil without any fertiliser etc. that indicates a genetic difference to me. i'm not really willing to be proven wrong either until i have grown them out together! and maybe i just see in the plants what i want to see and ignore the rest coz every time i buy a cutting from some one i find the "same" clone the week after so i am determined to beleive in their heterogeneity. but after super ped has been through a summer and autumn in the clay i guess i'll know more

i've a feeling however quite a bit of breeding may have happened in oz over the last few decades or more to produce a lot of similar but different clones; certainly a few growers i have met and got cuttings from admitted to crossing plants back in the day. none pointed out fat scop type plants as crossed tho usually tersheckii and pasacana type hybrids and schickedanzii type crawlers. but my point is there could be a minefield of hybrids around that are hard to separate and if there isn't there will be soon!

perhaps we'll never know and just have to satify ourselves with our own reasoning! until the DNA studies come rolling in for this most intractable situation upon which elections can be won or lost. there is also another type of more intrepid diagnosis.

and yes the bridgeXscop turned out to be a interesting fellow i have a larger one but could not be bothered walking the extra 300m for a photo as it was cold. it does perhaps reveal some interesting insights about the PC.

some nice pedros there mutant and some good shots in this thread.

it's an interesting conundrum.

[strangebrew]

I'll 2nd that cordobensis photo of yours looking a lot like Superpedro when it's growing really well though Micro, with those slightly red spines.

Have a look low down & see if there's any swollen spine bases.

[Micromegas]

Haha what are you saying about my super pedro! well it is interesting that you mention the red spines i thought about bringing that up. the cordo has awesome (although subtly) red spines against the blue... are you saying that the super ped does too? cause i haven't seen that on mine at all although they are admittedly not very big having come from interstate not too long ago (thanks!). but i will point out that on the mother plant which the cutting next to the spade came from there is no sign either of a glaucous appearance or red spines and this plant is massive and healthy.

you know when i posted those photos and had a look i was surprised to see how similar the super ped looked to the cordo which hasn't done my case any good! it was just my photograhy perhaps! but check out that the super ped has more angular ribs than the cordo tho both are full to bursting point. just for interest sake my cordo was a spawn of the mother in the first post of this thread (thanks also!).

so does super ped ever look blue, and does it ever have reddish spines? i've never been aware of that in a pic or in person. i've not looked at swollen bases. swollen what? i'll check it out next time i'm in the garden. i did count that the cordo had six spines consistently when the super ped was quite varied but i dismissed this as a non-eventful coincidence. but like i said i am diagnostically challenged they just look and feel different to me!

Edited August 17, 2010 by Micromegas

[strangebrew]

Yep, SuperPed can be glaucous and have red spines. Mine appear to have faded with age/strong light? but you can still see some redness. Spination is variable but this is more or less the standard display.

[mutant]

Rob and Lance look to be the same plant. If so then I would say it, like Lance, is the longer spined form of T. scopulicola.

I really like Alf.

Hey Michael, I got the names wrong, the plant you like is not Alf, but was received just as Pachanoi "2" from SAB. Nice clone, yeah, sorry for mix up, Alf looks skinnier so far.

Also, I thought the obvious V notches in Rob was different from Lance, but didn't look it too much.

[Micromegas]

Interesting i did not think super ped would be blue or have red spines. alrighty then i will grow out what i have is super ped and then I will be satisfied. could take a while tho!

[M S Smith]

The clone naming game is invariably going to cause confusion with people naming the same clone different names. Subtle differences such as V-notches, spine color, diameter, and glaucusness (bluing), are useless as guides to comparing one plant, though similar, to another as growing conditions can effect all these things. What would need to happen to see if the Australian T. cordobensis, Super Ped, Lance, Rob, etc. (with more to be added soon), are or are not the same plant is for someone to collect them all and grow them out enough under the same conditions of light, soil, nutrients, etc., for comparison. PD would be a good person who garners enough respect to do this, as then he could maybe "declare" that they are all the same and dispose of the confusion my assigning a single clone name (this would work as these clone names don't get much further than this little self-important community of ours). Even if these are not the same identical clones I'm not sure anyone could provide me enough reason to think such names are of any value. To me they all look very homogeneous. I'm not sure that even if these named plants are from different seed there is any reason to think they are somehow distinct enough from each other to deserve peoples ooowing and ahhhing. I'm going to stick with considering them all one of two apparent subspecies of T. scopulicola.

~Michael~

Edited August 22, 2010 by M S Smith

[mutant]

I am growing both Rob and Cordobensis/Lance . So count me in.

And yeah clone fetishism can be misleading.

[shruman]

So i've started pulling a few out of dormancy & took a few pics. might be able to help on the subject, might be interesting to see what people think of these,

Group shot, one on the far left is 105cm x 17cm at widest point for scale.

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

Whaddya wreken?

Edited August 25, 2010 by shruman

[PD.]

well number five, which would be number three in the group shot be super ped. Thats what i wreken. Bita scop, bita pach, number 4 even looks super pedroish, dunno, photos can be hard especially considering the variation we all know trichos can show.

[mutant]

just another opinion...

the ones that resemble lance/cordobensis/rob more, IMO are 3+5

even 1 & 4 look a bit like them

Nice plants, definately interesting, this is an awesome thread! I would love to see photos of 3+5 again when they grow and pump a bit.

[Jamison Schuetz]

excellent cactus!

JLS

[strangebrew]

might be able to help on the subject

LOL Yeah right.

1,4 & 5 could be the same plant.

[M S Smith]

Yeah, 1,4, and 5 the same plant...if not the same clone of the same species, with 2 being the standard short spined T. scopulicola and 3 being one of you Australians' weird mixed-up plants.

~Michael~

[shruman]

Yeah ya's got me but noone got them all.

Number 2 is the run of the mill scop. 1,3,4 & 5 are all super pedro all from the same place.

I think it does help in showing just how variable an individual clone can be & stresses how important it is to see a plant in all facets of growth & in different environments before you can start to tell apart clones.

Agree with PD something is always lost in the photos.

Lucky enough to recieve a cut of cordobensis (came from the same plant as YT's) today & will get back to youall in a few years but when Ipulled it out of the box it does look to be almost identical but I will wait before I get any more difinitive.

Now to hunt down Lance.

[M S Smith]

Wow, even 4 was the same! The view from above certainly would suggest that, but I was a bit thrown off by the greener color and slightly more sunken in ribs.

Check out my similar thread.

~Michael~

[strangebrew]

Hehe, never try to ID a dehydrated plant. I would guess that particular cutting came from a more shaded location on the mother plant.

I had a nice photo of my Superpedro when it was younger and in more shade that I can't find unfortunately. Displayed a wonderful deep green with very red spination.

[Stillman]

Just found this thread, I have been hunting variations of Scop down for some time now. Does anyone have an opinion of the scop from Collectors corner (Bunnings).

Also anyone got pics of well established Scop x bridge Psycho0 cv. I have a nice 50cm plant starting to get some good size. As time goes on my favourite cacti seem to be coming more from Bolivia then Peru.

[Stillman]

Here's some pics of my Collectors corner T scops, theres alot of variation amongst them when small so will be interesting to see what they end up like, don't mind the horrific scaring on the ones in the ground they are healing up and should be good to grow by spring.

these two I got direct from CC

and this is my T scop x Psycho0 doing very well in the ground looking forward to seeing how it grows over the next couple years

As far as growth rates go the two plants I bought direct from CC are in a mini greenhouse that they seem to like alot, they are easily the fastest growing trichs I have in my collection.

[M S Smith]

The T. scopulicola in those first few shots looks like your average ones, but funny how the T. scopulicola x T. bridgesii (Psycho0) looks like a dead ringer for the longer spined form of T. scopulicola (aka T. cordobensis). Hell, if you would have asked for a simple ID on that hybrid I would have said T. cordobensis for sure. That would be neat to find support for T. cordobensis being a similar sort of hybrid.

~Michael~

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

as it's likely that in southern Bolivia there are multiple subspecies of T. scopulicola. There are a lot of unknowns about this species...

Does that mean they're not extinct in the wild like we get told in uk?

[M S Smith]

Check out kt's post #16 at the following link regarding the possibility that T. scopulicola is extinct. The comments you quote me on above were made before his. I wish I was right in those words, but sadly I'm probably not.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26488&p=298311

~Michael~

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

Check out kt's post #16 at the following link regarding the possibility that T. scopulicola is extinct. The comments you quote me on above were made before his. I wish I was right in those words, but sadly I'm probably not.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26488&p=298311

~Michael~

Thank you kindly.

[TheExplorer]

Has anyone ever had a Super Pedro throw a 4-ribber?