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Flange

H.B Woodrose seedling help...

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Hey all, just sprouted my first seed, its almost 2 inches tall now. Still makes me proud tho :P

Question is...

Its been under 24hr light (fluro) from birth and i was wondering if i should leave it on this till its alittle older or should i switch to new timings,18/6,12/12 ? What do these plants like?

Thanks in advance all.

Peace

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all plants like 24/7. darkness periods are a myth.

lower light hours are only needed to induce flowering in some species. HBWR flowers now, so it likes long days, but probably isn't fussed about whether increasing or decreasing daylength. Chances are it will flower under 24/7 HID.

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I have just recently sprouted some.

They are about 6 weeks old, 15 or so

I have never bothered with lights.

I have mine behind 70/30 shade cloth in my pergola in the Morning.

In the afternoon i put them in full sun.

Protecting the pots from the sun. :confused:

Cheers mole

[ 09. January 2005, 20:52: Message edited by: mole ]

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Cool, there interesting looking buggers.

How fast/slow growing of a plant is it?

I was thinking as soon as its of a descent size, to put it in a descent sized pot with like a tippee out of 3 bamboo sticks tied at the top for it to climb onto, if that made sence.

Would i be able to keep a plant at around 1.5-2meters tall in a pot like above?

Thanks again all

Peace

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what about CAM cycle plants T?

surely they need a dark cycle to effectively respire and react

I have noticed my seedlings do better under 18/6 than 24/0. seem more vital

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at the shroomery una posted a pic of 1 year old lophs that had been grown under 24 hour lights and they were twice the size of normal 1 year old lophs.

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Flange here's a pic of 1 of my HBWR.

quote:

"Flange" How fast/slow growing of a plant is it?

The pic should give you an idea.

Its only my first time at growing these.

Hbwr5.jpg

That date is 25/11/04

Cheers mole

[ 09. January 2005, 20:55: Message edited by: mole ]

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Originally posted by reville:

what about CAM cycle plants T?

surely they need a dark cycle to effectively respire and react

CAM would certainly benefit from the darkness, but firstly there are not many CAM plants we grow under lights and secondly CAM usually only switches on in extreme conditions (extreme heat, salinity or aridity). That means, a CAM species will usually metabolise normally and switch to CAM under extreme conditions.... conditions that are usually not provided in artificial systems and hence mute in this issue.

I have noticed my seedlings do better under 18/6 than 24/0. seem more vital

Hundreds of pot growers supposedly notice 'their plants do better' under 20/4 every year. But every scientific and industrial trial has shown this to be false. Australia doesn't have much of a hydro industry besides lettuce and pot, but Holland has thousands of acres under glass and intensive hydro growing every vegetable and flower imaginable (incl pot). Their studies consistently show that darkness is not needed and that all species trialled grow exactly proportional to the light hours they receive.

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Flange:

Cool, there interesting looking buggers.

How fast/slow growing of a plant is it?

not sure about melbourne but up here in the valley the two that i have sat at about 10cm for one full season and than the next summer they took of at the rate of about 3cm per day and by the end of summer looked like this goodthings.JPG

they will need protecting during winter but will harden once established. ggod luck getting them to flower though.

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they grow sooo slowly for the first few months then take off. they grow like a weed here, another plant im not going to grow anymore.

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Torsten, I know you're something of a plant genius and all, but I'm afraid I'm gonna have to disagree with you.

In most plants, flower/fruit is regulated by Phytochrome/auxin levels at each node. There are two forms of phytochrome. Pr form and Pfr form. In "short day" plants, flowering is inhibited by Pfr form, Pr form is sensitive to light, and the plant will only flower if Pr form phytochrome levels are high enough.

The opposite applies to "long day" plants. Pfr form induces flowering, if the nights are too long Pfr disappears and flowering is not induced. In this situation "night breaks" of low-intensity light will restore Pfr and flowering can occur even though the plant is growing in short days.

There are some exceptions to the rule. Equatorial plants, that only experience 12/12 light cycle throughout their life will flower only when mature. Also, some plants have been bred over many generations to flower upon maturity, irrespective of light cycle.

A decent example of this (I'm not sure if it's allowed to be mentioned but I'll try anyway) is Cannabis Ruderalis (the most infamous strain being LowRyder).

Plant life stages dependant on light cycle is something that is given to plants by Mother Nature, and can be scientifically tested for. Thus I find it slightly hard to believe that there is no difference between an 18/6 light cycle and a 24/0 one.

shroomy, one method that may help that beauty of yours into flower is to stress it a little. Have you tried varying the nutrients? (i.e. switching from high N to high K fertiliser). You can also try putting a paper bag over one of the nodes, tying it down with a twist tie for a few extra hours a day to change the light cycle.

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Originally posted by apothecary:

In most plants, flower/fruit is regulated by Phytochrome/auxin levels at each node. There are two forms of phytochrome. Pr form and Pfr form. In "short day" plants, flowering is inhibited by Pfr form, Pr form is sensitive to light, and the plant will only flower if Pr form phytochrome levels are high enough.

The opposite applies to "long day" plants. Pfr form induces flowering, if the nights are too long Pfr disappears and flowering is not induced. In this situation "night breaks" of low-intensity light will restore Pfr and flowering can occur even though the plant is growing in short days.

I don't know the chemistry behind the process, but while your stipulation makes sense in general, there are a few things that don't add up. It could be because I grow a lot of equatorial plants though....

There is another thread on this forum where a similar issue is discussed and cookie moster wrote:

I thought that it was well established that for most plants it is actually the length of the night that triggers flowering. I have read of the practice of 'flashing' being used by profesional flower growers for over a decade now. Basically these growers found that when they grew out of season in glass houses artificial light to increase the day length was required. From this came the idea of flashing to save on power. It involved turning the lights on for a short period of time several hours after nightfall to interrupt their night. I believe this practice is well established and used successfully by commercial growers.

I wasn't aware of the term, but I knew about the process.

Also, how do you explain that interrupting cannabis nights with even low intensity light for half an hour will stop them flowering (given that the total number of light hours is still below that required to trigger flowering)?

Plant life stages dependant on light cycle is something that is given to plants by Mother Nature, and can be scientifically tested for. Thus I find it slightly hard to believe that there is no difference between an 18/6 light cycle and a 24/0 one.

There are lot of differences to life cycle stages!! That was not what we were talking about though. The question was about optimal vegetative growth, and there are many studies and trials that show that most plants do not benefit from a 20/4 cycle in comparison to a 24/0 cycle. The discussion is based on a quaint notion that plants need 'sleep'.

To get back to the original topic, after 12-18 months of 24/0 cycles it would probably be a good diea to look at light cycles to induce flowering, although I think Argyreia likes the long days for flowering.

shroomy, HBWR in pots won't flower much... especially in a selfwatering pot (unless you let it dry out every now and then). Most potted HBWR flower in third year.

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Torsten, as far as my knowledge of plant biology/chemistry goes, cannabis varieties that regulate their blooming by light cycles (as opposed to equatorial sativas, or ruderalis strains) are classified as "short day" plants. That is to say, they require a shortening in their day length to flower and are Pr form phytochrome sensitive flowerers.

If you're right and HWBWR likes long days for flowering, this discussion related to the topic is entirely moot :P

[ 16. January 2005, 14:25: Message edited by: apothecary ]

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You've got me intrigued now and I'll do a bit more studying and thinking about that one.

The HBWR flowers from december onwards. So what does that mean? It's long days, but they are just past the longest day. Surely this does not qualify as a short day plant?

What about the other plants that flower at this time of year? if they are long day plants, why don't they flower in November, which is just as long as now?

I am not being argumentative here. Just having a problem understanding how just two hormones can create a minimum of 4 different time zones. Any ideas?

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ha

the mysteries

well if anyone knows how my cacti manage to sense the moon so they open most spectacularly when its full please tell me

Or how T spachianus knows when its going to rain and opens then

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must be the same way animals sense danger. could be to do with the fact that they are 90% water and they can recgognise the increasing pull of the moon. im sure we to are effected by the pull of the moon, i eat differently through the cycle. as for the spachianus, the increase in humidity would lower transperation add the lower pressure it could detect and this maybe is why it flowers. im just guessing though.........

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woow,that are some very big leaves !! Didn't know they could be that big.

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