Possible Sub?

[jay6785]

Hi Guys,

My first post here but I read these forums almost daily..This is basically my first mushroom hunting season where I have been interested in partaking, and I have found many however none seemed to match the descriptions. I do find a few of these fellows around the place and am wondering if it is a sub? I am completely colorblind and have trouble seeing the blue (however I think it is lacking from this mushroom), and my girlfriends lack of interest doesn't help, can't trust she will just say 'no' to keep walking. It was found in a little bit of grass around the bass of a eucalyptus tree, along with quite a few other ones around the area. (on the side of a main road in Redfern)

I am waiting on the spore print now,

Thanks,

[holymountain]

hmmm...i have heard of subs being found in redfern before. the cap does look like it has some blueing on it but there is something about the stem that makes me think otherwise. it looks like it's split and seems to be brittle.

give it a squeeze and see how it feels. does it split or crush when you squeeze it? is it brittle and weak or strong?

there looks like a bit of blueing at the base...but it's hard to tell...

don't take my word for any of this either....

good luck on future searches though.

[Distracted]

Not a sub, bad gills. Their colour should be distinctively different from the cap/stem. It should be more of a cream colour, yours looks orangey / the same as the cap.

If there's any doubt, chuck it out.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Distracted

[MindExpansion]

I wouldnt put that near my gob personally mate. keep looking but!

[Amazonian]

G'day Jay. It does look subish but the photo quality is not overly great so makes it harder to identify, though I am no mycologist and as yes the rule of thumb goes "If in doubt,chuck it out". I will be interested to see the spore print.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Amazonian

[Amazonian]

If the cap color is meant to always be different from the gills, I am confused. A Friend of a Friend had some subs drying out . Now paranoid, has gone back over the collection which were all collected in a small area. Most have distinct blue coloration on the stem. The ones that don't , still look the same as the others and have been put aside . See photos ( yes they look skanky now but remember are/were being dried out). Also are some spore prints taken when they were fresh. To the Friend of a Friend, they don't look purple/black. This person has collected many a time but long ago and is now overly cautious with all the info on lookalikes. These mushrooms do not have a annulus. I know the photos are not great,but have trouble uploading them so i had to alter the size.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Amazonian

[Distracted]

If the cap color is meant to always be different from the gills, I am confused. A Friend of a Friend had some subs drying out . Now paranoid has gone back over the collection which were all collected in a small area. Most have distinct blue coloration on the stem. The ones that don't , still look the same as the others and have been put aside . See photos ( yes they look skanky now but remember are/were being dried out). Also are some spore prints taken when they were fresh. To the Friend of a Friend, they don't look purple/black. This person has collected many a time but long ago and is now overly cautious with all the info on lookalikes. These mushrooms do not have a annulus. I know the photos are not great,but have trouble uploading them so i had to alter the size.

 

I meant the stem really, not the cap. Although the gill colour is different from the cap, it still retains a bit of the same colour, but nowhere near as much as some lookalikes around.

However the stem colour I find is very different from the gills. The gills are a lovely light cream that stains darker as they age from the release of spores.

Some lookalikes seem to have a white stem, but it's just some kind of powder that you can easily remove with your fingers to reveal an orange/brown stem underneath.

Good luck in your future hunts!

[Amazonian]

I meant the stem really, not the cap.

Sorry, didnt read your post properly.

[reshroomED]

First pic is not P.subaeruginosa.

Some of those in your group photo may be though.

If it doesn't stain royal blue, turf it, is the best advice that I can give you.

That being said, subs fruiting in suburbia tend to blue less than those in the wild from my experience, but I've yet to see one that doesn't stain within minutes of picking.

Your prints seem to be of two different species, one blackish, the other red/ochreish (is that a word?).

Subs prints should be black/purple. It helps to spore-print subs on black media as this highlights the purpleness (again ?).

Eating poisonous fungi is a bad way to die. You'll get bad gastro for a day or so, then come good. Two days later your liver and kidneys will die and you a short time later.

It's quite refreshing to hear someone ask this question and provide habitat description and a print vs the usual "are these good to eat" post, so kudos to you.

ed

[mutant]

ED you got it mixed up I think. Prints are not from the original poster/mushroom.

I think the first mushroom of the original poster is not at all a Psilocybe, blueing or not.

Gills more or less give away the spore colour and this doesn't look at all psilocybish.

I wonder how many people get poisonings in Australia annually while supposedly picking psilos, lots of people going for it without the basic knowledge of mushrooming and without first getting to ID Galerinas, f.e. Looks like a dangerous sport to me, because you never know when a fool crosses some line, but I understand it, if you got so massive fruitings all over the continent

Amazonian your prints look ok.

Edited June 10, 2010 by mutant

[Amazonian]

I sorta jumped in on the new member Jay6785 with his opening topic of 'possible subs'(sorry mate). As i am older now and i like to think more wiser,i am extremely cautious about my Friend eating poisonous mushrooms. So i thought i would chuck my two bob in and get my foaf subs/prints looked at as well. Yeah so sorry again Jay and welcome to the forum.

[reshroomED]

ED you got it mixed up I think. Prints are not from the original poster/mushroom.

I think the first mushroom of the original poster is not at all a Psilocybe, blueing or not.

Gills more or less give away the spore colour and this doesn't look at all psilocybish.

I wonder how many people get poisonings in Australia annually while supposedly picking psilos, lots of people going for it without the basic knowledge of mushrooming and without first getting to ID Galerinas, f.e. Looks like a dangerous sport to me, because you never know when a fool crosses some line, but I understand it, if you got so massive fruitings all of the continent

Amazonian your prints look ok.

 

Ahhh, I'm a f**king dill, that's what comes from posting when I'm crook.

I usually refrain from such, but always try to answer asap when a new member asks this question so as to discourage "trying it and seeing what happens".

I did think that I made it clear that the first two pics in this thread were not a sub, if not then I'm saying it now.

All the other statements in my above post I'll stand by though.

And stating that the last print looks "OK" is far from correct, it looks particularly like a gallerina print (although guessing the shroom from only a print is always gonna give you a large error-factor).

The mushroom that made that print was not P. sub though. If you want to call me on that one I'll happily send you a bag of gallerina's and you can post a trip-report, although I'd ask you to do it soon after the 'gastro' goes. Another day or so and you wouldn't be posting anything.

FFS, just noticed you're in Greece.

Are you an ex-pat with local (Victoria, Australia) knowledge, or just guessing?

In all seriousness (no offfense meant), if it's the latter I'd suggest you refrain from posting in such threads.

As stated above, if there is *any* doubt chuck it.

Also, it's better not posting 'your' fiinds in another's 'is this the real deal' thread as it leads to confusion as exampled by my first post.

happy hunting,

ed

Edited June 10, 2010 by reshroomED

[Amazonian]

Your prints seem to be of two different species, one blackish, the other red/ochreish ?).

 

In proper light,the prints do look the same but i will suggest to afoaf trying black paper for print ID's . Also ,i do agree that the print does look like a gallerina but the mushroom it came from ,you would swear it was a sub. I will upload a photo of a fresh one in the next few days and see what ya rekon. Edited June 10, 2010 by Amazonian

[Amazonian]

Also, it's better not posting 'your' fiinds in another's 'is this the real deal' thread as it leads to confusion as exampled by my first post.

 

I know. aghh ,What a mess

[Amazonian]

we need a sub forum soley dedicated to P.sub' variations with pics' of prints, cap variations ,etc. Just an idea for you mushroom experts out there.

[obtuse]

i guess a few things.

has the stem stained blue,

do the gills stain blue.

is the stem thick and fibrous, with a thin hollow cavity through the middle, and curvy.

is the cap viscid, with a thin but stretchy transparent layer that can be peeled off. does the cap have a nipple.

has the top of the cap stained blue,

as the cap dries, it yellows from between the nipple to the edge, and goes a pale yellow, with occassional blue staining.

you've really got to pay attention to these when you pick. if you start worrying about this stuff when their half dried, it may be too hard to differentiate till you get spores and gill fragments under a microscope.

once you know a few differentiating rules 99% you cant miss out in the field.

from what i can see in the first post. no, not a sub, the stem is not right, and i personally dont think the gills, the cap, and cap margin look right either.

amazonian, that upside down cap may be ok. is that blue staining on the edge. the group photo, they all look ok.

Cheers, Obtuse.

Edited June 10, 2010 by obtuse

[Bread Filter]

Eating poisonous fungi is a bad way to die. You'll get bad gastro for a day or so, then come good. Two days later your liver and kidneys will die and you a short time later.

 

The mushroom that made that print was not P. sub though. If you want to call me on that one I'll happily send you a bag of gallerina's and you can post a trip-report, although I'd ask you to do it soon after the 'gastro' goes. Another day or so and you wouldn't be posting anything.

 

How much/many of the Gallerina mushrooms would be need to be ingested to cause this kind of poisoning? Are we talking one wrongly identified shroom, big or small, out of a hunt or more like ingesting soley Gallerinas?

If the answer is "how long is a piece of string?", I apologise in advance

[Amazonian]

amazonian, that upside down cap may be ok. is that blue staining on the edge. the group photo, they all look ok.

 

Yes , there is an edge of blue. I just get so paranoid these days as i have so much at stake. In my day i never picked a sub' that wasn't a sub'. But now with all the images i am seeing of the lookalikes just makes me want to be sure of my identification. Some of the stems look blackish. 25 years ago , i wouldn't have doubted them. I will photograph fresh ones just to be on the safe side.

[mutant]

ed, yeah I am greece, you kindly offered to send be an eileen for free some time ago, but I told you I was already ordering some ozzie clones plus an eileen from oz, but seriously man,

I like drunk posts but is it possible you're still drunk and get the colours wrong/mixed?

I really cannot explain this attack to me.

My post is pretty obviously a post that observes hastiness and in-a-hurry-mentality by many newbies who only take interest in picking active psilos and encourages caution for beginers - that's why I mentioned Galerina after all!

My knowledge and practical experience has allowed me to eat many wild edibles and find and ID several deadly ones, and even if I have only once found active psilos [some woodgrowers], I have picked, IDed or tried to ID several species of Psilocybe and Panaeollus.

Moreover and on to your disagreement on my comment on the prints,

whether your are in Australia or Greece, the spores of Galerinas are rusty brown, and genus definitions are not changing with continents.

Sure, colours in photographs might be somewhat altered, but Amazonian prints to my eyes are Psilocybish

Amazonian:

In proper light,the prints do look the same

so it seems they're all purplish brown

Hey, jay6785 , out of curiosity, what was the print like?

edit: the original finds of jay6785 have no blue staining, the whole picture has blueish/greenish distortion

Peace

edit2: indeed, as obtuse observes that upside down cap is a bit dubious, probably due to immaturity.

but all in all, the ultimate decision and responsibility is the pickers, not some guy's that ID psilos from often crappy pics

edit3:

How much/many of the Gallerina mushrooms would be need to be ingested to cause this kind of poisoning? Are we talking one wrongly identified shroom, big or small, out of a hunt or more like ingesting soley Gallerinas?

If the answer is "how long is a piece of string?", I apologise in advance

the nature of this type of poisoning is so bad you don't want want to eat even one, because it still might do some permanent damage

Edited June 10, 2010 by mutant

[Amazonian]

[but all in all, the ultimate decision and responsibility is the pickers, not some guy's that ID psilos from often crappy pics]

Here Here. ( meaning i agree)

Hey mutant, what is the time difference in Greece compared to Australia

Edited June 10, 2010 by Amazonian

[jay6785]

Hey Guys,

Thanks so much for all your help, I came in this morning and checked my little mushroom but no spore print was made, just one dried cap. I never intended to eat the said mushroom anyway, even with a positive ID, just want to get in the groove of picking the right ones.

I actually was pretty sure this was not a active mushroom but wanted to check because I always see these kind of ones around.

Thanks to everyone that helped, next time I find a possible I'll post again!

[mutant]

Hey mutant, what is the time difference in Greece compared to Australia

I am at GMT+2.00 and Adelaide {AUS] is GMT+9.30 so I guess now it's 12.00 in the morning here, it's 19.30 over there.

I came in this morning and checked my little mushroom but no spore print was made, just one dried cap

that might be because the mushrooms was too immature to produce spores, or it could also be [the print] whitish and you didn't notice. If expecting whitish prints it more practical to use coloured / dark / black paper to do it on.

peace

[reshroomED]

I like drunk posts but is it possible you're still drunk and get the colours wrong/mixed?

The word "crook" is slang (Australian vernacular) for ill. As in sick.

I have a bone-marrow disease that messes with both my mind and body, hence the comment (not whingeing, just explaining).

I really cannot explain this attack to me.

Was not meant as an attack, and many apologies if I made it sound that way.

My comments still stand though.

If you've never picked one, I'd suggest you refrain from posting in identification threads (again this is not an attack, but advice - do with it what you will).

My knowledge and practical experience has allowed me to eat many wild edibles and find and ID several deadly ones, and even if I have only once found active psilos [some woodgrowers], I have picked, IDed or tried to ID several species of Psilocybe and Panaeollus.

Moreover and on to your disagreement on my comment on the prints

whether your are in Australia or Greece, the spores of Galerinas are rusty brown, and genus definitions are not changing with continents.

Sure, colours in photographs might be somewhat altered, but Amazonian prints to my eyes are Psilocybish

Amazonian: so it seems they're all purplish brown

Assuming that what we call "gallerina" and what you call "gallerina" is a rather large leap, considering the climate differences, and the lack of any authoritive study of Aussie shrooms.

By far the most shroom-related deaths in this country are from immigrants picking some that looked identical to what they'd eaten all ther lives in their homeland.

I generally like to read your posts mutant as they're mostly well-thought out and insightful.

This was not an attack at you (and I sincerely apologise if I sounded that way, as no offense was meant).

I wouldn't hazard a guess at identifying any Greek shroom, was suggesting that this is a prudent stand to take, and suggesting that you do the same.

Aplogies again if i"ve caused offence.

Shit, without your ancestors I'd not be able to partake of a good ouzo .

ed

[trousersnake]

i guess a few things.

has the stem stained blue,

do the gills stain blue.

is the stem thick and fibrous, with a thin hollow cavity through the middle, and curvy.

is the cap viscid, with a thin but stretchy transparent layer that can be peeled off. does the cap have a nipple.

has the top of the cap stained blue,

as the cap dries, it yellows from between the nipple to the edge, and goes a pale yellow, with occassional blue staining.

you've really got to pay attention to these when you pick. if you start worrying about this stuff when their half dried, it may be too hard to differentiate till you get spores and gill fragments under a microscope.

once you know a few differentiating rules 99% you cant miss out in the field.

from what i can see in the first post. no, not a sub, the stem is not right, and i personally dont think the gills, the cap, and cap margin look right either.

amazonian, that upside down cap may be ok. is that blue staining on the edge. the group photo, they all look ok.

Cheers, Obtuse.

 

Hey guys, i found some possible subs today in woodchips on the bellerine peninsular. im pretty sure they tick all the boxes as outlined above. just to confirm, should the cap be slimmy? and is it ok that they were growing in multi stemmed clumps?

[trousersnake]

i guess a few things.

has the stem stained blue,

do the gills stain blue.

is the stem thick and fibrous, with a thin hollow cavity through the middle, and curvy.

is the cap viscid, with a thin but stretchy transparent layer that can be peeled off. does the cap have a nipple.

has the top of the cap stained blue,

as the cap dries, it yellows from between the nipple to the edge, and goes a pale yellow, with occassional blue staining.

you've really got to pay attention to these when you pick. if you start worrying about this stuff when their half dried, it may be too hard to differentiate till you get spores and gill fragments under a microscope.

once you know a few differentiating rules 99% you cant miss out in the field.

from what i can see in the first post. no, not a sub, the stem is not right, and i personally dont think the gills, the cap, and cap margin look right either.

amazonian, that upside down cap may be ok. is that blue staining on the edge. the group photo, they all look ok.

Cheers, Obtuse.

 

[trousersnake]

Hey guys,

i found some possible subs today in woodchips on the bellerine peninsular. im pretty sure they tick all the boxes as outlined above. just to confirm,

should the cap be slimmy?

is it ok that they were growing in multi stemmed clumps?

they are a bit bigger than the ones ive picked in the past, the stems are thicker and the caps are a bit mutilated and wavy in shape, and more of a deep orange than gold colour.

im doing the spore prints now,

cheers guys