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Creating an Outdoor Patch for Woodlovers or Subs

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My understanding from the paragraph is that tryptamine is a better supplement than tryptophan since you're basically bypassing one step in the biosynthesis of psilocybin from tryptophan by the mushroom (which basically does tryptophan --> tryptamine --> psilocin --> psilocybin).

 

Tryptophan is a basic amino-acid, which means it is present pretty much  everywhere. High concentrations of it are found in soy beans for example (could be possibly be an interesting  grain choice for substrate).

And it is indeed available as an otc supplement  (at least the levo isomer is) called L-Tryptophan, advertised for the same purposes as 5-HTP (5-Hydroxytryptophan, which your body synthesises from the tryptophan found in your diet).

 

Tryptamine might be a lot harder to obtain, unless you can decarboxylate tryptophan into tryptamine. But supplementing tryptophan should definitely make a difference, at least if there isn't enough for the mushroom to use in a typical substrate it should.

 

EDIT: He's Dennis McKenna talking about how close DMT and Tryptophan are chemically. He explains how easy of a 2-step synthesis it is for an organism to transform tryptophan into DMT (and its relatives, psilocybin included), and the abundance of tryptophan in nature could explain why dmt is in so many things as well.

 

At 2:10

 

Edited by MeanGreen
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5 hours ago, Skellum said:


 ^I don't know if I'm entirely absorbing this information correctly. But what I can garner so far is that  'Tryptophan'  is the ideal additive,
  even more effective than N,N-dimethyltryptamine (which is in in fact less effective than people think).
Am I correct in what I think I have absorbed from this paragraph  @Anodyne ?

As MG said, tryptophan is cheap & easy to find, which makes it nifty even if the uptake & biosynthetic pathways to interesting tryptamines aren't ideal.

 

In that table, smaller numbers are better, essentially. The smaller the number, the higher the % of the precursor had [probably] been converted to psilocybin. So the N,N- DMT number  is not the best one - the reason they said that this may be misleading is that apparently it was not absorbed very well in the first place (only 5% absorption using their method), so that perhaps what was actually going on was that most of the absorbed DMT was converted, and if you could optimise the absorption somehow, this could be an effective pathway. More research needed, in short. Certainly can't hurt to throw any DMT-containing mulch onto a patch and let the mushrooms work out the rest.

 

I was actually more interested to find the paper just so I could read how they had fed the precursors to the fungus - I had heard of these studies before but was never sure if they would just absorb them from the environment (eg. in their water), or if you had to inject them or something... still not certain, but it sounds like the former, which certainly makes things easier!

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Yeah I believe in most studies it is just mixed into the water used for the substrate.

Here is the best compilation of studies and papers on the subject that I have been able to find. They all more or less seem to confirm that the mushrooms do uptake some of the tryptophan. The OP sums up the results of those researches like this:

 

"What these papers show is that L-tryptophan *does* increase levels of psilocybin and psilocin, and does convert to tryptamine in some cases; and tryptamine *does* increase psilocybin and psilocin levels.  Thus below I suggest simply adding L-tryptophan to the media (at specific ppm rage) may increase the alkaloids in cubes.  I need to invested this further, but the info so far is exciting (to me at least)."

 

Near the end of the first post there's some calculations of the amounts of l-tryptophan used in the successful studies.

But I'm pretty sure I had read a thread with the right amounts to use, if I find it I'll link you to it.

 

As far as mulch, Phalaris could work but the best thing would probably be Acacia acuminata leaves, wikipedia says they contain mostly tryptamine.

Edited by MeanGreen
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Wicked, wickeddddddd links and information guys - bloody awesome stuff!!

Thanks for breaking it down for me too.  So if we were in a country where cubensis was legal to cultivate, instead of fucking around with the finicky hpoo to grow a premium product, an individual could experiment with the more reliable coir/verm substrates, but enrich them with acacia mulch and tryptophan dietary supplements and the end product may be just as good, if not potentially better than a hpoo product?

I knew I read it somewhere, but to see it all again and to actually understand it a bit better is magnificent. Appreciate the brilliant juicy pieces of recent info in this thread guys. Tantalizing stuff right here.   :)

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some garden patches fruiting, dry start to the season so I've been watering them every second day

 

IMG_9729.jpg  IMG_9730.jpg  IMG_9731.jpg  IMG_9732.jpg  IMG_9733.jpg  IMG_9734.jpg  IMG_9735.jpg

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Can this be done in SEQ? Would be neet to get some organic mushrooms growing around the yard. 

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3 hours ago, Zedo said:

Can this be done in SEQ? Would be neet to get some organic mushrooms growing around the yard. 

You'll probably have trouble getting a patch to fruit, unless you dump icy water on it at night  

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Cubes will go alright for sure.

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44 minutes ago, Glaukus said:

Cubes will go alright for sure.

Can you feed an outdoor cube patch and expect it to return the following year, like you can with subs?
Or do you need to make new spawn and a new patch every time you want fruit?

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This notion of adding precursors to substrate also got Shulgin looking at the end-results of adding 5-MeO-DMT to come up with 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT:

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Hydroxy-5-methoxydimethyltryptamine

 

There's also a 1988 paper called 'Biotransformation of tryptamine derivatives in mycelial cultures of Psilocybe’' by Jochen Gartz which I've attached here

Gartz 1989.pdf

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On 19/06/2017 at 4:17 PM, Skellum said:

Can you feed an outdoor cube patch and expect it to return the following year, like you can with subs?
Or do you need to make new spawn and a new patch every time you want fruit?

You'd want to let some go to spore or water in a good lot of spores yearly to constantly renew it as insurance.

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Just been making a woodchip path through my veggie garden (dug out and newspaper-lined). Decided to scrape an old cubensis print I had lying around and make some spore water, poured it over the path (and through to the newspaper). We then had a fair bit of rain. Hoping it takes. The surrounding garden is mulched with sugarcane mulch. It's probably the wrong time of year but fingers crossed.

 

If anyone has any tips or input on this let me know.

 

Really enjoying getting to know the plant spirits in my garden. Outdoor, self-sufficient subs would be awesome. Don't have any caapi in yet but it's a possibility in the future. Thinking about maybe doing some log-grown edibles with inoculated dowels when I can find some suitable logs somewhere on the side of the road. I don't know of anywhere I can get pre-inoculated logs, just the dowels.

 

Hope everyone is having a good winter, peace.

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Cimi, I don't know that Episcopal would be a good substrate for cubes, but I hope it works for you.

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Yeah I know you're right. Still just feels nice to know they're in there in some form :wub:

 

Just buried some bits that fell off my shiitake kit from http://www.aussimushroomsupplies.com/

 

This woodchip path should sprout something someday! Can't wait to get some burgundy wine cap culture when Selby's Shrooms has it again. Great for garden permaculture and breaking down manure.

 

Has anyone heard about the Findhorn Garden Society in Scotland? Mysterious Universe did some podcasts about them. Really interesting story about a group of people communicating with nature spirits, plant devas, etc, working together to make this crazy amazing garden back in the 60s. Apparently the mushroom spirit in the garden was kind of surly and a bit of a troll, not appearing at first, then choosing to pop up everywhere except where they actually cultivated the mushrooms. Hopefully I will be able to find favour with the mushroom spirits.

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the only thing getting me through all this rain in sydney is peaking into the patch ,-)

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2e97e.thumb.jpg.fd6c08757fc3d8c7b6850da1fd57b2bb.jpg

 

and a few pics from last year...

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2be88.thumb.jpg.5550517f86e4a8c1a5c87e77ccc19625.jpgUNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2b429.thumb.jpg.830cc77f301effb859bce7f75b94bd98.jpgUNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2b428.thumb.jpg.5b011b34373cfd3d1d151e5c6da17edb.jpgUNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2b427.thumb.jpg.80711e7004c92dbdbf95b6539fe609a8.jpgUNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2b426.thumb.jpg.307568c69aba3d32879febb60db35384.jpg

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Edit: removed (off-topic)

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Posted (edited)

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I have a Ps. cyan balcony planter and 2 shoebox grows of ovoids and subs on my balcony but apart from a sub pin have not really gotten fruits yet. Lot of work to keep them wet, and the gnats... :rolleyes:

 

But i did make patches of king oyster too recently for the first time... still have a lot to learn about outdoor patches.

 

From what i understand, just like indoors you get a more explosive growth with low density substrate... it can seem like quite a bit of myc, but thin shavings or fine sawdust should be much more easily decayed than rough chips. Not really sure what the point is of having to wait around 2 years for a patch to start fruiting since it is running out of food. Sure maybe 6-12 months is reasonable to let the myc get established but if its about getting the myc hungry i don't see the point in feeding it super well at the start.

 

I inoculated one or two of those shoeboxes with mud from a creek by the way, for the microbiome.

It's a shame that it's so slow, not cause i'm impatient but i would like to start more grows with exotics and have learned from some experienced before then.. am especially interested in NZ and Tasmanian fungi (and flora/fauna), in pointy capped species (papillate or umbonate.. esp acutely) and in mutants + hybrids in general.

 

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