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Are spirits and other worlds simply 'folklore' or are they real?  

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So in a nutshell perhaps...."We are just the product of the universe trying to understand itself".

 

I guess those of us who are attempting to deeply "understand" things are an example of the universe trying to understand itself; a kind of cosmic mnemonics. But I don't think that a hermeneutics of the universe trying to understand itself is necessarily the crux of the universe. Perhaps more fundamentally, we are simply the universe experiencing itself. Lived connections, experiences, and visceral engagements are all crucial productions of being human but none of them necessarily have to have anything to do with processes of understanding things.

But I sure am an example of the universe trying to understand itself, even if only in infinitesimally modest and narrow ways :)

Edited by telepathogen

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nice one telepathogen. i just finished reading 'cosmos and psyche' the other day. an amazing book. a fucking amazing book. very dense but well worth making your way through it. great quote from it.

if the beings are illusions its only because this world is an illusion too and the only truth is that we are all one consciousness. innerspace and outerspace are one and the same. as above so below.

 

Yeah it is a cool book. A major leap from his first acclaimed book The Passion of the Western Mind. I had to read a chapter from The Passion for a philosophy class a few years ago. Though I very much doubt that philosophy departments in Australian universities, or most of the world, would be feeding their students Tarnas' latter and more sophisticated ideas.

I've attached a very short abstract from the Deleuzian anthropologist Ed Viveiros de Castro. It offers some interesting conceptual gymnastics that help suggest the "illusion" of spirits and the "illusion" of corporeal relations and bodies such as humans. Or in other words, the reality of the former, the spirits.

As above so below in a general sense, but the physical plane seems to kind of lag, or tends to be "more-fixed", a kind of clunky system. It has peculiar dynamics relative to itself though definitely not alienated from broader cosmic ecologies, forces, flows and functions.

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[edit] ohh, "xapiripe" is Yawalapiti for spirits. And read from "What am i suggesting, in a nutshell".

Alex

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Edited by telepathogen

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aww i plussed your post, and it turned out to be a quote. good quote anyway.

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Inco>>>

r u a fucking football fan?

how about you?

I hate football, but I love it when it gets out of control, people [fans and players] beat each other and it turns into what it really is, a full-on hooligan habit serving detonation purposes. I also believe that the fact that football is so popular is a sign of social and spiritual degradation, y'know?

www>>

Mutant bro,... all I think is that you need is to be a little more focussed on what it is that you are saying or asking to avoid being hassled over little things.

thanks mate, but I don't think it is actually a small thing. Sure, my tone is not the way to make friends, peace and all, but I doubt it would be much different in a 'what a nice atmosphere' way even if I was the most polite, buddist or whatever hippy love-you-all guy. And sure, this battle I have induced is not so good for my own development, karma, whatever, y'know, but for what it's worth, it's pretty interesting.

This is about football sides, and it's not small thing. It's pretty interesting and pretty big.

So, 7 voted for "Mutant sucks" , 6 voted negative reputation on my user profile [hey one guy forgot to vote :P] because of this and related threads.

This is not a battle that derives from a misunderstanding or something. This is the picture of mankind.

We are just the product of the universe trying to understand itself

Guess what:

not everyone is understanding the same thing, because not everyone is asking the same questions.

The people who tell me eat the 'fucking mushrooms' {Dude was the latest one] , not only fail to understand anything outside their own familiar dogma, but also feel threatened by my opinon. I take pride on the fact, and I will add 'stick the mushrooms in your ass, they say you can encounter different kinds of spirits if you ingest it from the bottom, also, the absorbtion will be probably be better, so you won't loose any potency and you will trip as hard as only real psychedelic pioneers do!!!

:wave-finger:

Edited by mutant

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sticking mushrooms in the ass might be the go ... :P....... It may not be necessary for you to have a large dose at all ,one raw shroom can be all it takes , some people are more sensitive to psychedelics than others ...

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I hate football, but I love it when it gets out of control, people [fans and players] beat each other and it turns into what it really is, a full-on hooligan habit serving detonation purposes. I also believe that the fact that football is so popular is a sign of social and spiritual degradation, y'know?

totally off topic and i know i shouldn't even bother but have you ever wondered why football fans are such thugs?

why people get out of control and beat each other up?

why it's so popular?

can't help but think it might be all the alcohol that gets consumed in amongst it. can't imagine the same riots occuring if the fans were all on mushrooms. can you?

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i just wish i had of been interested in mushrooms back when i was playing. i reckon a threshhold dose would make you unstoppable. perceiving plays before they have been made, increased strength and speed, better eyesight, incresed pain threshold, increased ability to read bodylanguage. i think mushrooms are totally applicable to football!

i dunno mutant i just found football fun to play. good testosterone outlet. but i agree we where plied with alcohol by senior players and management (from under 12's) alcohol was ALWAYS available. you also get that sense of belonging, it has a 'tribal' appeal which possibly appeals on a subconcious level. walking onto a field with ur 'tribe' and taking on another 'tribe' for a 'prize' possibly works on some kind of archetypal level. I enjoyed every second of my football career, i would be playing again this yr if not that i had to work some weekends. Most guys here play till they are 45 lol

plus dont for a second think that there arent some really nice, genuine and open-minded people who are involved in football, who do alot of good work within their communitys. Its just a game. I know on our homegames in our town, we would donate 60% of the gate to the local hospital and retirement home. the other 40 would go into grounds maintenance, equipment and travel expenses. (you would be surprised on how much our gate took, and the whole town turned out, who would donate alot extra cos they knew where the money was going) most homegames we would take in excess of 8g. thats 4g to the hospital and village every month.

the 2 primary schools use the oval, which is kept in pristine condition by the football club

We constantly throughout the yr organise fundraisers for the primary school and pre-school. To be honest without the RL organisation in town, there would be a much higher dependence by these facilitys and organisations on government funding.

Edited by incognito

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plus dont for a second think that there arent some really nice, genuine and open-minded people who are involved in football, who do alot of good work within their communitys. Its just a game. I know on our homegames in our town, we would donate 60% of the gate to the local hospital and retirement home. the other 40 would go into grounds maintenance, equipment and travel expenses. (you would be surprised on how much our gate took, and the whole town turned out, who would donate alot extra cos they knew where the money was going) most homegames we would take in excess of 8g. thats 4g to the hospital and village every month.

the 2 primary schools use the oval, which is kept in pristine condition by the football club

We constantly throughout the yr organise fundraisers for the primary school and pre-school. To be honest without the RL organisation in town, there would be a much higher dependence by these facilitys and organisations on government funding.

 

now thats a damn cool community strengthening thing, it's real interesting actually.. footy in australia has come to represent bogan culture & a certain yobbo mentality which is interpreted in a pretty negative way by many, but when you look deeper you see the way that it's actually a fundemental cohesive force in the community & a very positive thing indeed.. drunken yobbo's & whatnot are just an unavoidable by-product of these kind of society structures..

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oh & i just had a thought, mutant, i think like you say not everyone is understanding the same thing as we've all got different questions & motivavtions... & how are we ever to know exactly what each other actually understands right.. i personally don't care what the fuck you do with your mind, as i'm sure you don't me either.. of course i trust you can take care of these things yourself, but i think why the discussion can get a little messy is, (you have to admit) the original topic of the conversation is basically about high dose tryptamine hallucinations... so though it probably sounds repedative & annoying if i'm not wrong you haven't had high dose tryptamines so maybe thats an important nuance in this discussion...

also... some of my best friends are hardheads lol everyone's personal makeup is as bigger deciding factor their subjective experience as the drug itself as i'm sure you well know. i'm just saying maybe you needn't give up so easily, perhaps give yourself more time before making any conclusions.. i'm not by any means saying you might meet the fairies or any of that bullshit, but it might be interesting trying to figure out how to break it open so to speak.. or not? it's just that i think in this case in-particular more than probably any other you can't rely on other peoples interpretations for your knowledge..

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drunken yobbo's & whatnot are just an unavoidable by-product of these kind of society structures...

ive seen just as much bad behaviour at a psy-trance doof. people are people.

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ive seen just as much bad behaviour at a psy-trance doof. people are people.

 

yeah thats my point.. :) thing is bogan culture & psytrance culture in australia have no definable boundaries anymore.. if they ever did..

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I love how within the entheogenic community where the consensus seems to be one of 'as if' and 'may-be' and 'why not' the revolutionaries are the ones that cry "NO! it cannot be! listen to my myopic worldview! My division of the one that is two and none is the only one worth believing because I can see it.. I can't beleive you guys can't see it! stuck in fairy land.. can't you see the reality is here with my antfriends? let Ockham's razor discard the rest so i need not understand anything outside my own familiar dogma (material-theism). Let us bathe in the shallow end here where I can remain safe and warm by my own pee, come join me brothers and sisters, the water is fine!

Of course, every hero, anti-hero, villian, revolutionary, outspoken critic of the status quo of a given community is well at home cultivating their ego with their own self-fellating dogma (that I have much cleaner lenses not tinted by the haze of hippy shades clouded by wishful thinking in non material entities and intelligences).

The dissonance they create in the community validates their position as fighter of the prevailing paradigm, which is an illusion unlike their objective view of reality, like objectivity wasn't just another concept? It is the TRUTH, and they know this, so like an evangelist they preach the good word of rationality, so that humanity may save itself from quaint old mythological beliefs. It is a never ending strand of history this conversation, that myths have no reality apart from their self contained stories, that spirit is not an active player, more like something you can reflect on (ie: invent in your head), but what exactly is the process of inventing something in your head, i digress. what was I trying to say? that's right, this is boring, Mutant sux. see more validation that you were right all along.

Every genius knows that when the lay person disagrees or worse results to name calling it means they must be even more right, for what do these delusional fools know? hypnotised by some myth?

So as Mutant stated, this conviction is a sort of badge of pride that they just aren't as gullible as the rest of us here, the uber skeptic hero versus the easy to manipulate mindless mass.

I'd say that Mutant is still stuck on the adolescent disillusionment in authorities, political and religious and their legislation and dogmas which invent abstract entities that we believe in as the highest of authorities and hence are manipulated to the nth degree with.

Therefore he would see any such ethereal entity as an invention of the human mind for the purposes of control instead of the intangible dynamic aspect of reality which invents inventions, that which creates but is never created. This is the spirit that is never seen, but is always seen everywhere.

It appears that with the dismissal of psychedelic realities comes the dismissal of the mental integrity and critical judgment of those that experience it (football jock mentality or just some gullible fool) as if because you disagree with everyone your critical faculties must be the highest. That does seem to be the spirit of your posts here. We've all been brainwashed by the same myth? Yeah cheers for pigeonholing an infinite multitude of psychedelic experience that is beyond the norms of rational understanding and translation in its unbelievable scope that laughs at definitions ...as nothing more than the wish fulfillment of McKenna fanboys. ....You're only trying to help.

...haven't voted yet but to answer your question, I don't believe anything, I'm a nihilist.

I would say that not many of us believe in reality as such anymore, We just work with our experience and others to work as ontological cartographers so we can have a map to get about these different places. Some might disagree on which road to take or what the place looks like or where the best place is, so it's important to actually do the journey yourself and see the place. McKenna maps a good invisible landscape even though the terrain may be a bit hard to reach.

Edited by The Dude

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blowng>>

It may not be necessary for you to have a large dose at all ,one raw shroom can be all it takes , some people are more sensitive to psychedelics than others ...

yep, I know, don't tell me, tell those that think I have never broken through and are still parroting 'take the red pill fucker!'

HM>>

totally off topic

not at all, I was mentioning footbal fan/sheep/herd mentality as a parallel with 'my drug of choice is better' mentality some very strongly exhibit. I asked inco "are you a football fan?" and got asked back, hence I reply. But I wouldn't expect you to understand the analogue, you have refused to acknowledge simpler things, no?

and i know i shouldn't even bother but have you ever wondered why football fans are such thugs?

Alcohol? Not every country is like that. I have told you again alcohol use is usually more 'appropriate' here , than f.e. the stereotype of europeans, scandinavians, irish, uk, scotish drinkers. Moreover, football fanatics and extremists are into sedative pills, benzos mostly, heroin, pot, anything really, including alcohol of course. I don't believe drugs are to blame for people's ill behaviours, they play catalytic roles sure, but they are not causes. Plus alcohol needs constant consumption and brings on lots of pissing and I expect this not to be very practical at a stadium.

I could invert your question: why do footbal fans drink alcohol , junk and pills, instead of other drugs, like psychs, f.e. ? Because they're matcho idiots to start with, because it's mindless sedatives and euphoriants that will work best in a herd but mind you, there are people who will load up on anything or more accurately everything to prepare themselves for the stadium battle, even psychs, for a little twist of the drug cocktail they're taking.

why people get out of control and beat each other up?

that's what football [and whatever sport/spectacle to replace it] is for. Detonation. 'Legal', protected violence/detonation. I usually say that religion is no more the opium of the masses, football is...

why it's so popular?

because it's marketed agressively, and because it really works [detonation]. Also because it makes lifeless, interest-less, miserable people's life's aqcuire a meaning. It makes you part of the 'big thing' , and anyways belonging to a group, football fans or psychedelic fans, orchid growers or cacti growers is naturally appealing and of obvious benefits for an individual.

See the parallel now? ;)

I am talking about watching in a herd mentality now, not playing the game or even enjoying the spectacle .

The game's is fine [well it's boring IMO, but whatever :)] , and inco's points about, heh, threshold doses enhancing performance could be spot on.

can't help but think it might be all the alcohol that gets consumed in amongst it.

maybe it's more like this in oz, dunno.... it makes sense, for sure

can't imagine the same riots occuring if the fans were all on mushrooms. can you?

no, not really. But I have seen people behave awfully agressive on psychedelics [acid probably] and that proves my point that it's a man thing mainly, that's the root cause of the phenomenon, not a drug-exclusive thing. It's simply [some] people who are full of shit, not drugs.

Incognito, that's fine, amateur and local level football is not the same at all. Some fanaticism might exist locally too [we got it in greece for sure], f.e. nearby cities teams are in a vendetta and the like, but in general, the amateur level is the level that shows the purity and beauty of an interest, game, hobby, persuit. If you take the herd/fan/fanatic point of view in football it is what it started as: a simple game, lol, were 20 sillybillies run after a ball :)

Peace and good morning :)

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But I wouldn't expect you to understand the analogue, you have refused to acknowledge simpler things, no?
No wonder you 'true visionaries' can't make up new language, you haven't even mastered the old one.

get fucked. its analogy not analogue.

Dude, cool post. now i see why they call you dude.

Edited by holymountain

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Cheers HM.

These circular conversations are fun for a little bit but soon I'll need to get off this merry go round before I get dizzy, just had to respond to Mutants claim that "their small minds do not comprehend my genius and my opinions threaten them"

Mutant,

Of course! The only reason anybody disagrees in a discussion on anything is because they cannot grasp such intelligent ideas and are threatened by the other persons obviously far superior intellect.

Seriously what is your point though? that such perceptions of reality as attained by high dose mushrooms or other psychedelics are not real and everybody is deluding themselves but you will not find out yourself because you will not take said high dose mushrooms and you demand people stop believing such is the case even though you have no ontological frame of reference that is in any way relevant to said 'altered perception of reality' from which to argue your convictions in any convincing way.

This approach to knowledge, if it be a genuine inquiry, is inherently flawed and will result in circular conversations when the answers you seek are of an experiential nature and not another piece of information to be shared or written in a textbook. (like reading the book, "experiencing things first hand, for dummies") you need that experience, this will shatter all prior knowledge into tiny pieces and restructure your way of thinking into one that if you've ever woken up in a dream... is very lucid.

Of course you are fearful of your inevitable fall into crazy land because you can see with your study that deluded hippies believe stupid bullshit because they ate too many mushrooms. So if you know of the absolute foolishness of believing such spiritual interpretations what is your fear of immersing yourself in this false (hallucinatory) world? scared of believing?

This question has been asked a gajillion times before and there is no answer apart from the one that's been said a gajillion times before.

Edited by The Dude

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paradox

the original topic of the conversation is basically about high dose tryptamine hallucinations... so though it probably sounds repedative & annoying if i'm not wrong you haven't had high dose tryptamines so maybe thats an important nuance in this discussion...

no, no, mate, the core of the scuffle is the high dose tryptamine experience , not the subject of the original threads. The 'do you believe' poll is more into high doses, yeah, but not tryptamines necessarily. And foaf has had some pretty intense expereriences

Theist obsession might make it look like that because that's where their belief lies: you can usually communicate 'the other' on high doses.

but yes, I haven't had a large tryptamine dose... so what... foaf just had his first a month ago. he says he likes, he says he will repeat, he says he's probably going higher some time. So what the fuck do you want? :)

foaf ate a microdot some 10 years ago. And some idiots are still saying he hasn't broken through. That's what's annoying and repetitive. The dismissal of my foafs experience and knowledge.

And this all does make sense if you measure/value the experience and knowledge by the micrograms, grams, trip content, approach or whatever. I still choose to challenge this and see what happens. Up to now, stuff happens, so it's quite a successful attempt so far...

the threads where the arguement takes place are

*my thread where I am asking about opinions on 'how to break the loop'

*warning on subs

and now

*Do you believe?

High doses are discussed in all threads, and sure they are related, but they're not the original subject. You will also see that noone actually talks about high dose experiences, noone replied to Psilomans points, all repeat I have not high-dose exeprerience [we know that already from start] or that I have not even broken through or whatever.

******

Dude>>>>>

this would actually be a very good post, if what you're assuming about me wasn't exactly matching the side you supposedly represent. No, actually this is a good post. And you're no representative of noone. because you're the first one that makes a point. I consider this to be my success, not yours though :) Joking, it's both mine and yours.

why didn't other people say this??

I would say that not many of us believe in reality as such anymore, We just work with our experience and others to work as ontological cartographers so we can have a map to get about these different places.

or this?

that myths have no reality apart from their self contained stories, that spirit is not an active player, more like something you can reflect on (ie: invent in your head)

which obviously admits there are no 'spirits', but it might help us [some of us] to work with 'spirits' to navigate in some territories...

because they can't, they have no such insight, way with words, they can only parrot.

Did you notice, I mentioned in some previous post of mine that it might help to see salvia space as a space dominated by a female presence - there's no actual female presence, but it might be practical and helpful to see it like that entering the space.

or why do you say those things, apart from me giving an awesome performance as mutant VS the theist psych community ? :P

because you got the insight, you state you're a nihilist and non-believer. That makes sense. You can attach to the world not needing to submit to some dogma/belief , even if you use some scheme to help or whatever, you recognise the scheme as such. I am like that. I joke about miss Sally or godess Sally, the female presence in salvia space, and there's no such thing as Miss/godess Sally.

*****

You know where the ultimate fail of all of your assumptions about me is?

You fail to recognise that I am indeed a kind of believer myself [that is 'I believe' in the classic psychs, I believe in their powers, I believe they can do stuff science cannot easily prove or wouldn't care or be allowed to prove, I believe psychs can do stuff that cannot really be explained logically, at least not completely], I just do not believe in the same things that you do.

Would you believe something before you experience it? Fuck not, that's what sheep do.

My thesis is: not being predisposed and let my own experience and knowledge, and most importantly, direct experience guide me.

Psychedelic afficionados that attack me and my integrity because I challenge the communities normas is something I take pride on. Something I learn from. And it's pretty sure there's stuff to ponder on in these discussions, something for a change, instead of the usual self-validating narcissism of psych communities over the world.

PS: You made another post while I made mine. It's pretty obvious you haven't understood where I come from and what's my point. It serves the football sides better like that [dismissing one's real points and projecting false ones as his own]. In any case, there are plenty of answers in this post of mine

PS2: that Wilson talk on real reality is sweet indeed

Edited by mutant

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ah dude i've missed you mate haha

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For many of us it is not at all a matter of belief.

Take 5 grams of dried mushrooms every week for two years and THEN tell me that spirits and other worlds are not real.

Almost ALL of the people who really go the distance with psychedelics accept the existence of other realities and beings apart from this reality and the beings that exist in this one! There are no shamans who deny the existence of other beings or realities that I am aware of.

It took me a long time and many, many repeat encounters to accept the existence of this otherworldly material... it just goes against anything we have been brought up to accept or conditioned to believe in.

Julian.

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expereiences do not have to be tryptamine mutey. you can obtain very far out adventures on san pedro with the right set, setting and dosage (eyes closed, dark room, silence etc). LSD in my opinion does not 'get you there' maybe because it is not natural and therefore cannot connect you to the spirit world like other natural psychedelics can (mescaline, mushrooms, dmt). It sure works in other ways but as far as working with spirits I do not believe LSD to a be useful tool and it's a tryptamine anyway so quit your tryptamine chauvenism bullshit. I'm sure you had a great time on your microdot and your itsy bitsy mushroom dose but lets not confuse these as experiences that would allow you to make contact with spirits.

My thesis is: not being predisposed and let my own experience and knowledge, and most importantly, direct experience guide me.

thats our thesis as well. the difference is (and it's got nothing to do with psychedelic theism or other terms you've coined yourself) we have experiences. and you haven't. case closed.

These circular conversations are fun for a little bit but soon I'll need to get off this merry go round before I get dizzy

tell me about it. i would love it if this thread had more people talking about their beiefs, experiences, doubts etc so we could maybe even draw some conclusions from the data collected rather than just the same round and round shitty battles with mutey.

i'm sure lots of people have got far out stories to tell. please share them.

Edited by holymountain

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i must say i never ever believed aliens would of ever existed before. i always doubted there existence vehemently.

i took a rediculous dose when moving house and cooked up all the snapped bits of bridgesii, pachanoi and penis into one almighty (foolish) brew (around 7ft all up) needless to say my roof later disappeared and instead was replaced by a high tek spacecraft, flashing flouro lights and all, and i was 'operated' on (weird sound pulses)through my nose. i have a report of that particular event here somewhere. Theres a goldmine of such experiences throughout the forum. I SAW and FELT beings, alien beings, insert a device UP MY NOSE and let of this sound that pulsed around my brain. over and over again!!!

needless to say im no longer skeptical..

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i must say i never ever believed aliens would of ever existed before. i always doubted there existence vehemently.

i took a rediculous dose when moving house and cooked up all the snapped bits of bridgesii, pachanoi and penis into one almighty (foolish) brew (around 7ft all up) needless to say my roof later disappeared and instead was replaced by a high tek spacecraft, flashing flouro lights and all, and i was 'operated' on (weird sound pulses)through my nose. i have a report of that particular event here somewhere. Theres a goldmine of such experiences throughout the forum. I SAW and FELT beings, alien beings, insert a device UP MY NOSE and let of this sound that pulsed around my brain. over and over again!!!

needless to say im no longer skeptical..

 

you can't link us to the report?:)

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hahah I remember this one...Gilligan thought you might have found a satellite up your arse...rofl.gif

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man i wouldnt have a clue where it is. somewhere in chillspace id say.

My link

haha i never expanded on it, it had shaken me so much at the time.

but yeah, i was living in a unit at the time, and was due to move back home in 2 days time. was in a pretty bad headspace and in quite a 'down' period of my life, VERY down. actually suffering from chronic depression.

anyways the brew was so thick, i practically had to chew it down. was more akin to a tar.

nothing much was happening unti around an hr and a half in and i just felt very very heavy. i was lying on a mattress in the loungeroom (the only furniture still left in the room) well i was just feeling heavy on the mattress, i really couldnt move much, like i was slowly getting paralysed. i started to freak a bit but in that headspace i really couldnt give a fuck. i was accepting actually dying. anyways my body was feeling quite paralysed, and i started getting, you know when ur hearing starts doing weird shit? there was no music on, but sound was like really crackling and distorting. going all weird.

the walls in the room where starting to get a bit wavy, and where covered in a 'pattern' which was quite vague until u started focussing on it. the pattern started getting clearer and clearer, and seemd to be made up of a very fine and complex electronic circuitry.

in amongst the circuitry where like elaborate fluoro lighting. the hallucinations started to become so vivid that the walls where no longer there, just the circuitry.

as i stare up at the ceiling, or where the ceiling used to be, the elaborate circuitry was starting to spin!! and around its circular perimiter where these flashing kind of strobe lights. I started to rationalise it to myself trying desperately to tell myself this is just in my head and will all be over soon and i will be having a good laugh about it.

The circuitry slowly stops spinning. I cant move, paralised.

in my peripheral vision i can see figures streaming past. human looking figures, but not defined. I feel my jaw being gripped, physically, by what feels like a hand. I cant move, and am now positively shiting myself. In my peripheral vision i can see two figures, on each side of my head looking down at me. they are not defined, very shadowy.

my jaw is literally pushed back, arching my neck up. Im fuking terrified! but cannot move.

I feel something forcibly go up my nose, it really hurts!! it goes right up there. A pulse of sound is emmited out of the 'device' which reverberates areound my brain. Its an odd sound, and quite loud inside my nose lol.(sounds funny i know) the noise seemd to vibrate through my brain. this initial 'blast' was succeeded by a following 3. then the 'device; was withdrawn. ewww i can still remember the feeling. the 'circuity' visulas continued for a while, then tapered of after say half an hr. I could then sit up, my nose fel fuken awful. i felt VERY different in the head. I felt extremely nauseus and spent an hr spewing my ring of i the bathroom. my nose was running like a mother fucker, im not shitting yas!!

my head felt very different as i had said , like something had been erased and 'fixed'.

i drank some water and laid on the mattress trying to figure what had gone on.

i am honest when i say my nose ran for the next few days, and my nose felt like something had been pushed up there. it was quite sensitive.

i did notice in a dramatic improvement in my mental health and general wellbeing though, and overall outlook on life.

since then i moved home, completed my studies and am now working in a job that is totally rewarding, and im more at peace with myself than i can ever remember being.

did something help me along that night? did i light up like a lighthouse to the cosmos that night? a beacon asking for help from whatever was out there? did something respond?

Edited by incognito

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Ok, here's an experience to add to the pile.

A friend of a friend of a friend, or whatever, had multiple experiences with other wordly beings during tryptamine experiences, both smoked and made orally active with MAOIs. The experiences seemed in many ways more real to him than his usual perception, the feeling being that he had been able to see through the veil of his usual senses and seen a plane of existence more basic than the one he was used to seeing on a daily basis. He saw the creation of the universe, and the end of the universe and was shown all sorts of amazing secrets by the beings about the way human life is constructed and the purpose it serves. Sound kind of familiar???

Well, get this. This all happened years before he had even heard of Terrence McKenna. He was not at the time part of any forum where he could exchange ideas with peers. He had only one personal friend who had also had also tried tryptamines and then, only smoked. The person from whom he was getting the stuff refused to talk about his own experiences, telling my FOAFOAF to explore things for himself.

The outcome of these experiences is that this guy is not 100% convinced in any reality. The only thing he believes 100% is that he doesn't know. Perhaps he'll find out when he dies, perhaps he'll just be a rotting corpse in the ground. Does it matter? Not one bit.... he learned things form his experiences that have made him want to live his life in a more positive way, regardless of what happens at the end.

The main gist of this is that he had no pre-conceived ideas going in to his explorations, but came out with experiences very similar to the thousands of other people who've ventured down this path. Take from that what you will. :wink:

I am hereby changing my name to Rabaelthazar as I've noticed google is linking to my posts and I'd like to try to avoid that.

Edited by Rabaelthazar
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