Warning on Subs

[Chiral]

No malice here mutant but i do sometimes have to say what I'm feeling...so I did...anyways I'm all good and i'm sure we will have more of these discussions in the future etc.

hugs...

[mutant]

Cool mate, I'm not the easily offended type ;)

peace

[SunChaser]

Taking very large doses of subs just leaves me pinned to the ground with gut rot, laughing at absolutly nothing for 3 hours straight. Doesn't exactly make for a very meaningful experience.

Personally I think lower doses of shrooms are more effective as an hallucinogen. Large doses have alway just made me feel really drunk.

It's wierd because taking large doses of LSD just seems to make it get better (fuck I miss that stuff), but shrooms for me have a point where the trip starts losing any real meaning and I just become intoxicated. But everyones different. 

[mutant]

Interesting, jabez

I am quoting something from a sticky in the nook

http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=1554

Using Psychedelics Wisely

Myron J. Stolaroff

A veteran researcher explains how psychedelics can be used to give

beneficial results. From GNOSIS, No. 26, Winter 1993*.

from "Dealing with the shadow" paragraph

The most infallible guide to Shadow material is our uncomfortable feelings. Many do not like to use low doses because these feelings come to the surface. Rather than experience them, they use larger doses to transcend them. But these uncomfortable feelings are precisely what we must resolve to free ourselves from the Shadow, gain strength and energy, and function more comfortably and competently in the world. By using smaller amounts and being willing to focus our full attention on whatever feelings arise and breathe through them, we find that these feelings eventually dissolve, often with fresh insight and understanding of our personal dynamics. The release of such material permits an expansion of awareness and energy. If we work persistently to clear away repressed areas, we can enter the same sublime states that are available with larger dosesâ€"with an important additional gain. Having resolved our uncomfortable feelings, we are in a much better position to maintain a high state of clarity and functioning in day-to-day life.

the text also speaks of larger doses, but after a knowledge of navigation and respect is established. Anyways, all these depend on what we are searching, what we want off an experience...

All essays in that link seem very interesting

====

I also noticed you all mentioning heavier body load with subs than with other psilos, which was the case with my friend, that is he actually thought that the load was pretty big for a relatively low dose [he ate the material too, though]. This body load might also have something to do with darker states, maybe. Being sick for 20-30 mins at the begining of a trip might play it's part

Edited May 10, 2010 by mutant

[fishstix]

A foaf had his fist sub experience last night with his girlfriend. It was a very low dose, 1.25g each, but man, they had it good.

It was a pleasant evening, the room was warm and had mattress's on the floor, the mood was good. So they chewed the mushrooms up nice and good, the taste wasn't actually that bad. Bit acidic though. Within 45 minutes they were feeling funny, some giggles, things feeling weird, patterns moving, crawling almost like vines on things, but nothing significant due to the dose. His girlfriend however was feeling it much more than him, due to body size I assume. Things were interesting, he sat in a dark room on several occasions to see what he could feel. He said he couldn't shake the feeling of being in the presence of something, the mushroom was definitely making its essence known. However, not being satisfied with the effects he thought he would smoke some weed. Bad mistake. Things went from pleasant and odd to just weird and uncomfortable. Loops were playing out, it felt like a roller coaster. One minute he was feeling normal, the next they were thrown into the weird world, again and again and again and again and again....and so on, until they came down. It was a really uncomfortable experience. He and his girlfriend are usually really very close, but even looking at each other in the eyes caused a feeling of distance and isolation, they didn't feel connected anymore like they were strangers. There was no comfort. They were both really scared to put it lightly.

Anyway, it was a ride they had to ride out, and eventually, they came down, had many cups of chamomile tea and rested. The next day left weird residue anxiety. They felt connected again, but couldn't totally shake the vibes of last night. It was a weird reality that can only be described as eerie. I am assuming that because things only got bad after the weed was smoked, it was the mushroom disagreeing with the combination, a fight between two feminine energies. I can't describe the total dissconnection they had between each other which was so unsettling and different. It felt as though they were a playing pre-thought out roles as characters, at the peak of the experience communication was no longer possible.

He still wants to do this fungus again, maybe a little higher dose, no weed and a different environment, something maybe away from familiar things or by himself, because he is totally incapable to connecting to people or familiar surroundings on it and especially harder to connect to those also on subs. Its like there was this other wordly barrier between them.

Anyway, that was his short account. Any comments you want to make feel free to. Are there any ways to come to terms with things? He is worried that the experience could have slightly damaged their relationship, nothing serious, but that feeling will always be remembered, and the thought of it returning brings anxiety. But I am sure it is only temporary. Would drinking alcohol help settle the mind? Or would that make things worse the next day?

Thanks guys.

[ThunderIdeal]

i think with time socialising and tripping becomes a bit more natural. everyone learns to accept the weirdness and perform a bit more normally despite it. thanks for the report. i definitely agree that pot changes a trip for the worse. pot shouldn't be a constant thing like it usually is.

[fishstix]

"i definitely agree that pot changes a trip for the worse. pot shouldn't be a constant thing like it usually is. "

I agree. Pot is a cuddly friend during times without psychedelics and with other drugs like alcohol, but most psychedelics, especially subs it seems its an offense to smoke during 'their time'. Almost as if the perception that pot provokes is not welcome in the psychedelic mind-scape.

He is thinking that maybe a dissociative like nitrous would be a good day-after activity to integrate the experience.

About feeling detached, I think with anyone else there wouldn't have been much of a problem, but because it was his girlfriend who he is used to having such a strong connection with (3 years), the total lack-there-of was unsettling to say the least. They have talked through the experience further and have agreed not to think anything of the isolation they felt because they were so lost and confused in their own worlds its understandable they didn't feel connected.

However, the glimpse of the sub world is very intriguing, something he wishes to explore a little further sometime in the future with a different setting for sure.

[Quill]

I love a joint on a walk on a subs trip. (cue bashing)

and I find it somewhat normalising for the tail end of an exp

[mutant]

Wow, 1,2 sounds potent!

Fishstix

this friend of yours strongly reminds me of my own friend and some of his experiences. You didn't mention how experienced is your friend with shrooms or other classic psychedelics. My friend has never tripped with a girlfriend. Sure feels like , for him a great way is one tripping and one babysitting and playing the role of the discreet helper and listener, if the tripper wanna share.

My friends consensus [so far, by no means final] is that he does not need pot for his psych experiences, maybe a very tiny bit, and/or some for the tail of the experience as other posters have pointed out. Pot can bring on confusion and fucked up thoughts during a psych experience, at least for some, that, for lack of a better word, resemble paranoia.

On a side note, amanitas are different in that respect, quite green friendly that it. Cannabis, says my friend, can eventually surpass even mid to high amanita experiences into a bit more clear-headed sedativeness than normal cannabis binge, but not a real breakthrough experience. Breakthrough exepreriences beat and surpass a generous amount of green smoked during in his opinion... end of offtopic////

Various reports loosely advise against couples to trip together unless experienced and serious about it, maybe each with enough individual experience.

factors from friends last 3 very spaced out classic psych experiences, might seem intersting to some, summed up

Previous years experience only with acid , as far as classic psychs are concerned

10 or so trips mostly on years 1999 and 2000

*some 3 years ago, when I first sowed by first argyreia seed cheers

a decent hbwr dose, first time lsa, a pot joint on nauseus come-up. only half a puff a bit later, after last purge and while the trip was already in its blissful peak, brought the trip down at light speed [he claims he didn't even inhale the not-even-half puff properly] into a 30-min paranoid subtrip, thankfully worked out with thought and logic, trip went on to third phase and was worthy and enlightening.

Similar feeling to what you described, the feeling that hbwr 'space' didn't 'like' that fucking puff, it actually hated it, full on for 30mins+- . Felt very dirty. It was actually a period of time my friend was smoking pot a bit more than usual, consciously knowing he was overdoing it. Compuction on his pot use might have brought the paranoia loop [he was actually thinking of cutting off his argyreia vine, lol] into a more rational entity and was probably the way out of the bad flow he got into.

*last september

first time mescaline, a rather medium-to-low end 8-hour lasting trip, 4 halfs of small sized joint were smoked during about 2h intervals, first one after the drug kicked in. No paranoia or wahtsoever , blissful, euphoric, energetic, superb trip, great artistic and creative inspiration and keyboard performance

*couple of weeks ago

first time psilos, 1,6gr dried wood-lovers that resemble subs, only smaller. No pot smoked during, some joint smoked at 5.30~6.00+ hours, trip lasted 4,5~5 hours. Social, euphoric, blissful, mild low end dose. No paranoia or whatsoever. Fantastic afterglow and surprisingly positive insight the following days.

The sitter/company is very very important in his opinion. First time was with friend not so familiar at the time [30-min paranoid subtrip]. Next two with very good friends [no paranoia]. In all three occasions only my friend dosed. In all three occasions setting was the same village house and garden.

About the distance with his girlfriend:

Has he ever felt similar feeling of alienation [less intense propably] on pot alone with his girlfrind in other times?

I think the best way to rationalise what happened was try to figure it out so as it makes some sense. For all I know, pot is the main cause for the downhill. Be it you accept 'subs spirit didn't like the pot invasion' or the more rational 'pot brought on paranoid feelings', it might be important to understand the trip went wrong because of the confusion plus the pot on top which probably enhanced the confusion rendering it stronger.

Discussion of the mechanics of trips, sets settings, and understanding that everyone has had at least a couple of times bad times tripping, understanding it's OK to fail in your planning [no need for compuction to settle], and see it as a chance to understand psychs better, to understand better yourselves and your ideal set & settings for the future.

F.e. don't think that what happened was for real, a 'revelation', not necessarily anyway. Maybe see like, f.e. both persons were on their own personal psychedelias but they were on a different frequency. Pot only made it worse. Trying to communicate, sometimes, is unproductive and confusing. Maybe sometimes trippping people should separate and not force themselves into the presence of one other or communication when something like this happenes.

Alcohol sure might smoothen up such a discussion between them, which will propably feel weird, but maybe save it for a later day, not the directly following ones , might blur or burry useful elements of the trip as it is still fresh.

I also cannot think of an intergration method better than abstaining from any kind of psychs, incl. pot, so that's what my advise is gonna be.

Thanks for interesting report, hope things smoothen up quickly for your friends relationship, and don't think of it too much, let it integrate slowly.

Peace

Edited May 8, 2010 by mutant

[Chiral]

Weed & psychedelics = trip turner, generally to something less fun or paranoid and dark. Leave the weed for another day, or better still send it all to Jabez....

I've even noticed that when smoking cigarettes on acid say, the drug is telling me that yuk cigarettes are toxic why are you smoking them...the molecule likes to teach you without being encumbered by other toxic things like smoke in your lungs.

Hey mutant I see ya posted another one of your one liner posts again ey...

[ThunderIdeal]

from what i can see he's addressing the question which nobody else can be bothered doing and isn't forcing the same concept for the 100th time so nice one mutey

[SunChaser]

or better still send it all to Jabez....

 

Well it'll go to a good cause.

The safety of the public is my number one concern. Whenever I come across some of this psychotic type paranoia causing super skunk cannabis, that's 1000 times more potent, I always make sure it's placed in my incinerator (my bong) as soon as possible. To be honest I think I deserve an award, because everybody knows, every hit I take is another kid saved from becoming a demoralized and enslaved crack head, devoid of any rational thought, who wears tin foil hats and always looks behind themselves, talking about little green men and how the governments always watching them!

Anyway, I think herb goes hand in hand with nearly all psychedelics except unfortunately shrooms. Mushrooms are actually the only (long lasting) psychedelic I'd even consider if there was no mix at hand. Although a few small pipes never hurt.

 

Edited May 8, 2010 by jabez

[fishstix]

I agree, if anything, the weed caused a paranoid, confused and highly different state than what the shrooms on their own had. It's weird because, this guy and his girlfriend, when they took acid together and with another friend, they could smoke and smoke and smoke weed and not even feel it! I think they got to 25 pipes each!

The strange effect that the pot caused was totally unexpected too because he is usually a regular smoker, 4-5 times a week, not all day smoking, mostly night-time wind-down type use.

The distance felt, after some reflection, it really was nothing to worry about. It was nothing personal, it was because of the different dimension the weed caused, it was fine before that. A lesson learned.

I think mutant that one being sober, the other tripping is a good plan. He noted when his brother came home later that night, the normal sober state really helped bring them back a little, not totally, but enough to realise they weren't living in their own pre-programmed worlds of fantasy. Neither of them are experienced trippers. He has taken a relatively high dose of acid before, and she has only taken two very low doses as mood lighteners, not 'tripping' as such. This was their first time with shrooms and certainly their first time tripping with just each other. They were not expecting to trip that hard either. The intention was to get a feel for what subs were about, but not like that! haha.

It's interesting that you mentioned that HBWR didn't like pot. When he took them they really liked it! kept smokin and smokin, enhanced the visuals etc. I think mescaline would be an interesting psyche to try next. The euphoric and loving nature of it sounds very appealing. Much less possibility for things to go wrong. But we have to keep things on topic, subs

Warning: don't smoke pot with subs unless your an experienced tripper

I think a lowish dose (but slightly higher than before) of subs by himself, or with sober people around, but not with him, would be a good idea. He could sit in his room, think, contemplate, go on walks, but not have to worry about interacting with people. Having the sober people around but not involved will be a good leveler. He is used to taking things by himself anyway as that is how he likes to smoke pot most.

What are people's thoughts on subs during the day?

Thanks for the input!

[mescalito]

Daylight is good,low dose 1-1.5g is functional and friendly,just not too much light.

Larger at night 3-5 with partner and lay together.

NO POT!

A few beers doesn't hurt.

so they say anyway

[mutant]

That thing about pot+psychs was said for my friend, from his experiennce, not to be taken as general. But I think most people will eventually realise [with experience] that pot is better used very conservatively or not at all during a psych experience.

Japez is right on when saying herb potentiates anything [even Coleus, that is generally thought to be inactive]

What are people's thoughts on subs during the day?

Very interesting, I don't think the type of psych plays so much role. Daylight is very interesting and bright.

A few beers doesn't hurt.

what do you mean mescalito? Before, during, afterwards??

Edited May 10, 2010 by mutant

[Scurvy]

Are subs much more prevalent than cubes around Australia (east coast in my situation)? Or is it more of a seasonal thing where that genus is much more common around these months?

[holymountain]

it's a seasonal thing. subs are happening during late autum early winter.. cubes as far as i know are december, january and feb. but i've never found them wild so i wouldn't really know... from what i've heard when the seasons are in full swing they are both prevalent if you know where to look.

[Distracted]

it's a seasonal thing. subs are happening during late autum early winter.. cubes as far as i know are december, january and feb. but i've never found them wild so i wouldn't really know... from what i've heard when the seasons are in full swing they are both prevalent if you know where to look.

 

I have cubes popping up in my backyard, the colder temperatures mean it takes them a looong time to grow though like our subadelic friends.

I personally enjoy weed with my trip just as I enjoy tripping during the daylight.

Just the other day I dosed up on 2 tabs acid, 4g cubes and it was quite nice... infact as daylight hit my CEDs became incredibly realistic/lucid whereas during the night it took me a few minutes of concentrating to get them to that point.

Fun times ;)

[Chiral]

I have cubes popping up in my backyard, the colder temperatures mean it takes them a looong time to grow though like our subadelic friends.

 

I'm not so sure what you have in your backyard are cubes, particularly if you live in South Australia as I'm not sure they would be very common down that way particularly at this time of year...they love dung and grass fields and fruit in subtropical to tropical environments, not in backyards in winter is SA.

Don't be picking anything without proper identification or you could regret it.

Subs fruit during the first few cold snaps around mid to late autumn, temps need to plummet to around -6 at night for the fruiting stage to begin and heavy rain isn't necessary as dews and heavy frosts will deliver enough moisture into the substrate for them to fruit. They are particularly prone to habituate the edges and margins of pine forests but not deep within them, also have seen to fruit in heavily wood-chipped and mulched gardens and beds, generally if there is the right amount of eucalypt chip and a smattering of pine bark they can fruit out of beds but less so if the bed is just straight pine bark.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Chiral

[PD.]

Subs fruit during the first few cold snaps around mid to late autumn, temps need to plummet to around -6 at night for the fruiting stage to begin and heavy rain isn't necessary as dews and heavy frosts will deliver enough moisture into the substrate for them to fruit. They are particularly prone to habituate the edges and margins of chirals undies but not deep within them, also have seen to fruit in heavily wood-chipped and mulched gardens and beds, generally if there is the right amount of eucalypt chip and a smattering of pine bark they can fruit out of beds but less so if the bed is just straight pine bark.

[Amazonian]

Subs fruit during the first few cold snaps around mid to late autumn, temps need to plummet to around -6 at night for the fruiting stage to begin

You don't mean minus 6 at night ,surely a typo.( ya duffa) Where i am the coldest it gets is around 1 deg Celsius and subs' grow here quite happily.

[divinersage]

in my opinion woodchip patches fruit way earlier and in warmer conditions 8-9 degrees seems cold enough!

where as forest patches take longer to get all comfy and colonized before they fruit, and usually need to get to about 6.

cant comment on pines, as i havent made a find with the myet

[Chiral]

Subs in my undies....sweeeeeet...think of the money I'll save in petrol.

[Distracted]

I'm not so sure what you have in your backyard are cubes, particularly if you live in South Australia as I'm not sure they would be very common down that way particularly at this time of year...they love dung and grass fields and fruit in subtropical to tropical environments, not in backyards in winter is SA.

 

It's from an aborted tub that somehow ended up in my backyard, not naturally occuring

SA just got it's first single digit degree nights the last couple days, so hopefully in a few weeks it should get colder and we'll see some action. :D

[Mt.B]

Yup no need to heat excessively..trick is to bring the water & lemon juice to a high simmer, throw fruits in and chop wildly with scissors as soon as fruits hit the water turn it off and keep chopping like crazy at them...let sit for 5 mins, then strain into a cup...throw pulp back into a little more water n lemon and bring back to simmer again then strain...that gets the last wee bit out and then simply combine the 2 extracts and swallow...*discard pulp*...don't eat pulp unless you want to feel nausea's and sick...sip on warm lemon tea or chug it down fast, and let the effects swim through you while you read or listen to music whilst relaxing.

 

Can this method of preparation also be used for fresh fruits?