No refund on phenylephrine

[naja naja]

Just made an appointment to see the doc about this BS. The ammount of shit I have to go through everyt time I buy hayfever med is rediculous. They are literally treating me like a dumb ass and criminal at the same time. The lady told me that taking pseudo for more than 3 days was dangerous, thats why they restricted packet size to 6, I said " that's not wh ythey ristrict the size" she said" yes it is" Crock of shit, wat is pseudowatch for then. I didn't wanna argue, then she says to take normal version minus pseudo, I say that after doing my research, which I have done thouroughly, I came to the conclusion as have the pharmacutical companies that antihistamines sold for hayfever in Oz are made for the european and US markets, therefore effective against tree's from those countries, but not australia. She once again said " thats not true" calling me a liar! Bitch I said, I just want the clarinaise and she sold them to me at her distress. Last pack lasted me 3 weeks, since it's a 3 day supply I think thats pretty fucking good. 2 per week. Fucking whore, bitch chimist slut!

End rant!

[Fenris]

The last time I went to the pharmacy when I was all cold & flu'y I asked the pharmacist for real sudafed and none of that PE crap because it is useless and doesn't work, he kind of looked a bit embarrassed while he was agreeing with me. The PE is next to useless.

[Auxin]

If oz is anything like my country a pharmacy has several pharm techs and one, maby two, Doctors of Pharmacy. Pharm techs dont really have to know their ass from a hole in the ground but the practicing pharmacist actually has to graduate medical school. There is no point arguing with pharm techs, its like arguing rocket science with a gas station attendant. Ask for the person in charge the moment you see a wave of ignorance pass over their face.

I'm sort of surprised theres no big underground guerrilla Ephedra planting movement. Seems a lot of people are being hurt by these ridiculous restrictions.

[ThunderIdeal]

in tonight's news, westerners fed up with their sniffly noses finally throw off the shackles of oppression.

[ballzac]

Update:

I heard back from CAV, and they have decided that the matter is not worth their time. Reasons given were

-There is no requirement for a trader to offer a refund for change of mind in Victoria

-The offer of a 7 day refund by the trader represents a good will gesture and exceeds statutory requirements

-In relation to your research, you are free to conduct your research and decide on an appropriate product before purchase

-Additionally, the value of the item falls below the threshold of which CAV is prepared to commit resources to conciliate

Well, IMO, the first two points are irrelevant because my grievance was about the fact that the product was not fit for the purpose for which I was led to believe it was. The third point seems to go against what I have read on the legal aid website and elsewhere. Really I can't argue with the fourth point because if that is their policy, then that is their policy. For me, however, this was a matter of principle and I couldn't give a shit about the $32.

CAV does suggest that I can make an application to VCAT (at my own expense) if I wish to pursue the matter further.

Does anyone remember this: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/ease-a-cold-ads-pulled-off-tv/story-e6frf00i-1225814803966 ?

[alkatrope]

Just had an awesome idea with a friend.. Everyone email Today Tonight about it and try and get a story done.. Ohh the hilarity

[Bread Filter]

I am sure Today Tonight and A Current Affair are already paid money not to talk about the issue. They feature a lot of advertising for Phenylephrine and a lot against Pseudoephedrine.

[blog]

Thought I'd just continue here, not worth a thread of it's own. Chemist Warehouse (nearest me) will not sell me pseudoephedrine & I believe it's discrimination, but what I wish to know is if it's illegal or unethical?

After telling pharm girl my symptoms & giving her my Drivers licence I have to wait near 10mins then greeted with 'I'M sorry sir we have none in stock, but we have many PE cold and flu products" . I told her "I doesn't work, I doubt it works for anyone, I don't know why you can legally sell this snake oil" . Bloke next to me says 'oh are they pulling this bullshit with you too" and said they always tell him it's out of stock, and knows to not even to bother asking. I wanted Demezin as it's only $10 there, I then asked for any comparable product containing pseduephedrine. She tells me all their pseudo products are out of stock.

I believe what i'm facing is a non confrontational approach to saying no. This pharmacy is linked up to Project Stop ( http://www.guild.org.au/uploadedfiles/National/Public/Fact_Sheets/project_STOP.pdf ) as I think almost all pharmacies are now, so would know the last time I bought pseudo was in March & I can see no reason to be treated like this. I may have long hair, & was feeling & possibly looking quite sick due to the cold but I think it's impropper to refuse a person on their looks, & to lie to a customer.

I don't know how to approach this situation as the line of 'we're out of stock' isn't necessarily untrue(all stock is kept out of site), although personally I know they're lying.

I know it's at a pharmacists discretion to sell Schedule3 medications to a person but surely it must be based on something other than what the person looks like & surely it's not reasonable for them to lie to you. I pasted some sections from code of conduct dealing with honesty & pseduo sales. Of interest to me, are parts dealing with discrimination, honesty & how you're suspicious if you don't want to buy that PE shit.

Pharmaceutical Society of Australia

Code of Professional Conduct

Obligations

2.1 A pharmacist must act according to the laws and regulations governing the profession and adhere to the code of professional conduct.

2.2 A pharmacist must act with honesty and integrity having due regard for standards of behaviour accepted within the profession and reasonably expected by the community and other health professionals.

( the pharmacist will treat patients with dignity regardless of manner of payment, race, sex, age, nationality, religion, disability, or any other discriminating factor...

5. Pharmacists must be satisfied that a genuine

therapeutic need exists. This means that prior to

supply the pharmacist should satisfy themselves

that a clinical condition exists which would benefit

from treatment with a pseudoephedrine-containing

product.

6. The quantity supplied should be consistent with the

level of therapeutic use that might reasonably be

expected for that condition.It is unlikely that

supply of multiple packs on any single occasion

would be necessary or justified given the selflimiting

nature of the conditions for which

pseudoephedrine is generally used.

7. Pharmacists should act professionally when:

a. more than one pack is requested

b. frequent requests are received from or on

behalf of an individual; or

c. the ‘bona fides’ of the request is in doubt

Behaviours such as refusal to purchase an

alternative recommended product or evasive or

aggressive behaviour when therapeutic need is

discussed have been noted as alerts to possible

product misuse.22

8. Pharmacists must remain vigilant to further assist

the control of illicit diversion.

Edited July 19, 2010 by blog

[Slybacon]

My friend is a pharmacist, I'll ask her on how it works.

I received the same response in bali when asking for Diazapam, but i was told there that for the right price some could be arranged.....

[Uncle. S]

I was informed last night by the pharmacy assistant that i could not have tablets with pseudo as the only active ingredient, and must have it combined with paracetamol and chlorphineramine, as "too many people are turning it into heroin and speed and cocaine"

I only wanted it because i'm already taking paracetamol+codeine and restavit at the moment as well, so frustrating!

[blog]

My friend is a pharmacist, I'll ask her on how it works.

I received the same response in bali when asking for Diazapam, but i was told there that for the right price some could be arranged.....

 

Thanks for that. Btw I wasn't under the influence of drugs or alcohol & I don't think I was behaving in a 'drug seeking manner' other than asking for Demazin, she got some demazin PE pack that I never knew even existed, I then asked for the 'original version'

Uncle S I think Chemist's own cold & flu contains pseudo, codeine, and paracetamol, so you could ditch the panadeine when you take it & not have problems with taking restavit. Chemist's own brand isn't in many pharmacies unfortunately. Quite often the cheapest product too.

[Chiral]

A lot of pharmacies sell out of psuedo on purpose, this is two fold in their favor..

1- They don't have worry about break ins as 99 percent of pharmacy break ins involve pseudo.

2- They no longer have to maintain the tedious and frustrating pseudo watch program..(obtaining signatures and updating live data base)...you can't blame them, as this is no use to the pharmacist, he is in the business of selling drugs, not in the business of not selling them, and writing down every person who tries to come and buy said drugs, not to mention it's time wasting, nor are they getting paid for any of this extra work.

The pharmacist guild is under constant pressure from religious lobbyists, meanwhile your local pharmacist is bitter and twisted about the ordeal and turns to just saying fuck it, I won't sell any pseudo containing products at all then and rid myself of the shoddy whole mess.

There are still friendly caring pharmacists that will sell you the real deal with no issues or writing up all, they know you well, and by first name, know your family and friends, know that you are not a criminal or drug dealer and sell you the appropriate medication for the relief of your condition.

Then there are paranoid to bones freaks who don't know you and refuse point blank to sell you a pseudo containing medicine. I once left mine at home and didn't realize till I was almost at work when i went to take a couple of daytime tabs, so I parked and went into the last known chemist before work, explained my situation to her, she showed me a dozen PE containing substitutes, I then told her that I'm not here to buy any PE cold and flu medications and said I'm aware they do not work and need the psudeo containing one. She went back to a shelf behind the counter found a brand that had psudeo in them and asked me to show my license and sign some paperwork, Whilst I was signing up she had packaged the tablets up in a bag and sticky taped the bag, I finished signing up and had already paid.

I get in the car get to work and find she had indeed whilst i was busy signing, put the PE containing brand in the bag and tricked me all up....I was furious but did not have the energy or time to go back and give her shit...it does however tell a tale on this dire situation that customers and pharmacists face with these ridiculous regulations.

[Rabaelthazar]

You just need to find the right chemist. I have about 5 chemists that I'll regularly visit, depending on the need. One chemist has a great range of natural remedies, another has cheap baby formula, one has a particular cough lolly that I like, one sells a brand of ear plug that fit my ear better than the regular ones and one chemist agrees that PE isn't as effective as pseudo. She'll suggest the good stuff if she can see I have a cold without me having to ask. I guess also getting to know the pharmacist on a personal level helps.

I personally don't actually like the feeling I get off psuedo... it can give me weird OOBE type feelings and make it difficult for me to socialize, but it does the job when I have a runny nose. I always hold off on using any cold and flu tablets as long as I possibly can.

One more point, to the OP (although the thread is pretty old now). I've worked a lot in retail and have had to become familiar with the Trade Practices Act. You are right that you are entitled to a refund for goods which are not fit for the purpose for which they are sold, but your situation doesn't actually fit in to that category. Phenylephrine is still a decongestant (albeit a not particularly effective one) which is the purpose for which the medication was sold to you. Had you asked for a decongestant and the chemist sold you a pack of ibuprofen, then the product would not be fit for the purpose for which it was sold.

Your situation is more like buying a tin of instant coffee and taking it back to the supermarket because it doesn't give the same caffeine kick as an espresso. The instant coffee is (arguably) still coffee but doesn't suit my individual needs.

There's no "fault" (at least not yet proven) as such in the product, it just doesn't suit you, which is classified as a change of mind. Unfortunately, you have no legal rights in getting an exchange for a change of mind, although some retailers will offer a limited change of mind exchange period.

Having said that, had I been the chemist, I would have refunded your money to keep you happy and hopefully get your future business.

[Rabaelthazar]

This post was in my mind tonight when I went to the chemist to fill a script.

THere was a sign at the counter stating that goods could be exchanged if (among other reasons) they are "not doing what they are supposed to".

I posed the hypothetical situation of phenylephrine not working as it says it will on the pack and was met with:

"Actually, we can't refund on any medication. The reason is we have no way of knowing whether the medicine has been stored correctly and that sort of thing. There's actually a federal law that says we can't."

When I asked in which Act that law was included, the girl at the counter couldn't tell me. The pharmacist may have known, but I was on my way out and didn't go back to check. That could be the whole answer right there, if anyone can identify the piece of legislation referred to.

[Slybacon]

Yeah ok if you were going to resell the product. If your burger doesn't taste right at maccas you get a refund, Im sure they dont resell the burger tho.

[mud]

I'd take a nice kratom tea

and sprinkling of ephedra powder any day

over codral

and

that pe shit made my teeth feel funny.

It kinda made them itchy, is that even possible?

anyway, on principle

I'd have stood there and told him the refund would be a lot easier than police report he'd otherwise have to fill out- not put myself through all this shit worrying at it, and walk outta there with money or compensation for my trouble.

Edited July 19, 2010 by mud

[ThunderIdeal]

"that pe shit made my teeth feel funny.

It kinda made them itchy, is that even possible?"

maybe

but it's INCREDIBLY hard to imagine.

that's crazy chiral. not only is it so underhanded and deceptive, but you'd already signed the paper work... where does she get off? obviously thinks she is helping save the world or something.

Edited July 19, 2010 by ThunderIdeal

[bℓσωηG]

One of the first things i did when i got to Bali was go to the chemist to get some pseudo ephedrine tablets the strong Indo variety to clear my lingering flu symptoms, but to my surprise they don't sell them over the counter anymore in the tourist areas , instead you have to buy them off the young guys that wear the fanny packs that hang on the street like its some kind of street drug? The madness is spreading world over

[Slybacon]

One of the first things i did when i got to Bali was go to the chemist to get some pseudo ephedrine tablets the strong Indo variety to clear my lingering flu symptoms, but to my surprise they don't sell them over the counter anymore in the tourist areas , instead you have to buy them off the young guys that wear the fanny packs that hang on the street like its some kind of street drug? The madness is spreading world over

 

The indo shit is great! You can still get it from a chemist in bali you may just need to go to a few, there seems to be one every block tho so it doesn't take long. Sumatra you can get cold and flu tabs from every little shop on the road.

[bℓσωηG]

 

 

You can still get it from a chemist in bali you may just need to go to a few

that good news then, yeah i did get tired of walking ... but most of the guys that hang on the street hassling you for transport or to hire out there bikes will have some pseudo on them , think i was paying 40 000rp for a tube of 10 this time round , and oh yeah beat the hell out of sudafed

 

[Auxin]

...I get in the car get to work and find she had indeed whilst i was busy signing, put the PE containing brand in the bag and tricked me all up...

And I'll bet the pack you signed for ended up being sold to her tweaker friend. If she got away with that for even 10% of pseudo customers I bet it'd be profitable.

[Chiral]

And I'll bet the pack you signed for ended up being sold to her tweaker friend. If she got away with that for even 10% of pseudo customers I bet it'd be profitable.

 

hah...what a brilliant way to maneuver pseudo out onto the black market, like you say I bet you could sign thousands of regular Joe's for PE medication, most don't have a clue to be honest, I see people buying PE all the time and don't even glance at the box or the ingriedients so I can't see them even batting an eye lid to sign their names to it.

Be very interesting to know the stats on chemists who are playing this little ace up their sleeve.

[PD.]

They don't have worry about break ins as 99 percent of pharmacy break ins involve pseudo.

i have never known anyone to do over a chemist to get at psuedo, not saying it wouldnt happen but out of the times i have known it(chemist burg) to happen 9 times out of ten the target was morph and benzos, the other times its just a mad grab and dash. It actually happens with regularity around here and usually the dudes get pinched, the guys after psuedo that i know of just buy tha packs and swap for the end product, hell of alot cheaper than buying m3th plus they reckon tha signature thing is a load of shit sayin they can go to chemist after chemist with no hassles.

Edited July 20, 2010 by PD.