How can one practice A/B Extractions?

[blip]

.

Edited April 5, 2010 by lsdreamz

[naja naja]

No doze

[alkatrope]

Yeah caffeine's not a bad one, tea leaves or coffee or whatever.. I don't think shellite is a good non polar for it though, would want something like DCM or chloroform..

[Yawning Man]

Edit. Sorry

Edited February 8, 2010 by Yawning Man

[mescalito]

Yeah a bucket of sea water and an accurate digital PH meter minus the shellite.

You just missed a powerful full moon too....but I guess you're looking towards the plant world over the mineral world

[Alice]

Some OTC medicine that would be legal to extract would be handy, as you can generally get a list of all ingredients, and you can properly "practice" as you will know the theoretical maximum yield from the stated mg on the packet.

Extraction of caffeien from tea bags is a classical 1st year uni experiment, though the version I've seen makes use of solubility rules rather than A/B.

Quinine from tonic water is a good one I think, as it give you practice in extracting miniscule amounts from a large volume of solution. But you won't know how successful you've been unless you can find out the % quinine per L etc etc... at least you'll know it's quinine from the taste.

I guess the thing I should be asking is what do you have growing in your ethno-garden that would be legal to extract? Remember that plenty of our ethno plants contain legal alkaloids. That way it's a bit more realistic as you have to deal with all the plant matter etc, plus you might contribute to the knowledge base while you practice.

Nicotine from tobacco? Hmm, maybe not such a good idea, nicotine in small amount is quite toxic, wouldn't want to get conc nicotine on your skin. Not sure of legality.

[blip]

.

Edited April 5, 2010 by lsdreamz

[alkatrope]

To put it simply.. To be able to do an A/B, you need at least one ionizable functional group. One is preferable.

If you look at the molecule of a trypatamine or phenethylamine.. You can see they have a nitrogen atom (the amine). This is a basic ionizable group.. And it is what allows the A/B to work.

So get an idea which groups are ionizable and if you spot one in your molecule then chances are it can be A/B'd (naturally there are other factors which can complicate things). Typically you'll be dealing with amines. Carboxylic acids (COOH) are a good example of an acid one.

If you look at the structure of salvinorin, no such groups occur, so A/B will not work. Not sure what the active is in lion's tail but I've got a feeling it won't work either.

[Auxin]

You could make up a liter of strong tea from lions tail or salvias or just about anything else without alkaloids, then toss in ten or twenty diphenhydramine hydrochloride pills (an allergy/sleeping pill) and a few tablespoons of vinegar. That would simulate extracting a alkaloid containing plant whos alkaloids are similar in solubility to DMT or 5-MeODMT (probably closer to the latter). Then basify and extract, extract into your solvent, evaporate, and see if you have to further purify the product to get it white.

Caffeine wouldnt be so good because its already mostly freebase, extracting caffeine is just solvent extraction unless its in a very strong acid. Not to mention you'd need DCM if extracting from liquid. I extracted it from NoDoze with alcohol in elementary school, made pretty crystals that were great sprinkled on apple slices Not as tasty as my purified vitamin C on apples tho. I always made teachers nervous...

Tonic water is only like 0.001% quinine (and people bitch about phalaris )

Heimia and Datura are common ethnos with loads of alkaloids, both are sensitive to strong acids and bases and neither would be especially soluble in shellite I dont think (neither should go beyond the pH range of 2-10, and neither should remain near either end of that for too many hours)

[Chiral]

cold n flu tabs...sorry couldn't resist..

you could try using succulents and other non tricho varieties etc...I'm sure that practicing with a bunch of them would help...try some delosperma too..

the theory behind organic chemistry is really quite simple..

pull the alkaloids out of the material into an aqueous state as salt.

basify that solution and push the alkaloids out then capture in a solvent.

separate the solvent from the base liquid and then evaporate the solvent for a freebase...or...salt the solvent with an acidic water to return the alkaloid to it's salt form without being in the plant anymore.

that's about it really...pH is the only really hard core rule with some alks but other than that...it's pushing and pulling.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Chiral

[blip]

.

Edited April 5, 2010 by lsdreamz

[planthelper]

the more one learns about extracting, the more one can get inspired.

for the lions tail, you could try to make,

a tincture,

alcohol, still, or coldfinger, or reflux systems,

copy hash making technics, like water/ice hash, or screening/ rubbing,

aceton soaks and maybe salvia like cleanup (orb's technic)

if a plant contains an alkaloid, you use various methodes of A/B extractions,

valerian might be a good and cheap herb to practice on.

some plants, you work hot and you boil or better simmer your material,

whilst others you work cold, meaning at room temperature.

even the experienced researcher goes thru a practice phase everytime,

so if you have no sucess at the beginning, don't let that stop you from keep trying,

as only prtactice makes you a master.

[blip]

.

Edited April 5, 2010 by lsdreamz

[Auxin]

 

 

...After a few months i have the roots a go (MY GOD those roots were massive!! (thats what she said) ) and THAT i felt ...

Do you mean you felt the valerian, or felt the girl getting frantically excited at the sight of your massive hard root?

 

[C_T]

if your talking alkaloids, i would have though caffeine would be perfect. It IS an alkaloid and legal.

Why can't you convert the caffeine freebase to a salt... caffeine anhydrous, caffeine hcl etc etc? That could be fun AND good practice.

[Auxin]

You can convert caffeine freebase to a salt.. dissolve anhydrous caffeine in anhydrous ether and gas in anhydrous hydrogen chloride, just never expose the product to air

Caffeine is just too weak of a base to be exclusively in the salt form. Even in coffee and tea (mildly acid solutions) its mostly freebase and the salts that are there are in equilibrium with the freebase. Thats why old books will reference something called 'citrated caffeine' rather than caffeine citrate.

But if its just practice one Can cheat.. start with acidified coffee, make basic, call it freebasing

[mu!]

dont forget recrystalization! thats when things get really interesting

[planthelper]

dont forget recrystalization! thats when things get really interesting

 

and an other good trick which works with a variety of materials is "acetoning".

sometimes the material (the goo) will not dry out.

now, pour the right ammount (very small ammount) of aceton over the resin on your plate and by doing so, you might be able to clean the material further, and aswell make it, so it will dry out nicly.

some material form crystalls easier than others,

but for example with dmt, it helps a lot when you scratch the plates, meaning once the first batch of solvent evaporated on your plate, you just scratch the surface of the plate with a sharp clean object. somehow this tiny fractures, will increase the chances of ending up with a plate of crystalls, instead of a plate with amorphous material.

Edited February 21, 2010 by planthelper

[spice]

Practicing an a/b on any kind of medication will cause problems, legal ones, and inert binder/filler ones. Stick with caffine and then maybe plant alkaloids (there are many out there).