Acacia Acuminata

[Eluna]

Hi guys

My first post on the Corroboree, so yeah hiya

Just wondering if anyone has any knowledge on tryptamine content of Acacia Acuminata.

From what i have been able to find online from a few sources some suggest varying levels of various tryptamine but i would like to get more solid info if possible.

Thanks!

[holymountain]

hi there and welcome to the forums

from what i know, which is very little, acuminats are known for alkaloid content and would be well worth growing...however the best thing i could recommend you doing is using the search engine. i recall heaps of infomation about acuminatas being posted over the years. pretty much everything you would want to know about acuminatas is here on these forums and a lot more than i could tell you has been written about them.

good luck!

[herbal_hindsight]

hey there welcome to the forums eluna

i attended last years ega and there was one thing i can not forget easily and that was how much it was stressed that acacia acuminata is definently very worthwhile to grow due to it's alkaloid content.

i am slightly disorganised atm but will hopefully stumble across a lot of my seeds that have been put into 'safe' spots

when i do i will get as many growing as i can!

it really was stressed to me by a lot of people that it's a very worthy acacia to propagate ;)

and yes there is a lot of info on acuminatas on here so give the search engine a go

best of luck!

[Eluna]

Thanks for that guys

I read -

acuminata is a good source of both dmt and 5meodmt and has been used for that for a while now. Different things in different parts. There is also some difference between narrow and broad phyllode strains. don't ask me for details though as this is a WA species which doesn't grow well here.

And upon further searching i cannot find any specifics regarding what was said above.

[tripsis]

That's an old quote from Torsten, right? I wouldn't find clarification of that quote either. From my understanding, no Australian Acacia spp. have been confirmed to have 5-MeO-DMT in them.

[Eluna]

That's an old quote from Torsten, right? I wouldn't find clarification of that quote either. From my understanding, no Australian Acacia spp. have been confirmed to have 5-MeO-DMT in them.

 

Hmm..

Thanks for that, anyone else got any input?

[Yawning Man]

Does acuminata grow in WA?

[tripsis]

Does acuminata grow in WA?

Yes.

[Eluna]

Does acuminata grow in WA?

 

Its actually endemic to WA.

[naja naja]

So go find out urself.

[holymountain]

when i've toured WA driving from Perth to places like Bunbury or Fern Tree Gully I've seen hundreds and hundreds of them on the side of the road. Drooling against the window wishing we could pull over. They seem to be easyish to identify compared to most acacias as they have the very, very thin phyllodes. At least from what I can gather.

[occidentalis]

when i've toured WA driving from Perth to places like Bunbury or Fern Tree Gully I've seen hundreds and hundreds of them on the side of the road. Drooling against the window wishing we could pull over. They seem to be easyish to identify compared to most acacias as they have the very, very thin phyllodes. At least from what I can gather.

 

You won't see many between Perth and Bunbury. Occurrence is essentially in a band between Kalbarri and Esperance, with scattered outliers. Look for wandoo. Because of their ubiquity throughout the drier areas they have spread and there are often populations along highways due to seed spread by vehicles which is what you may have seen.

The species is highly variable, the most obvious variation is phyllode form, as mentioned, but seed size and morphology seems to be another variable characteristic. There were something like 9 subspecies recognised but they have since mostly been given full species status, although at the moment most only have phrase names (PhD there if anyone wants it). All deserve analyses (which have no doubt been done, publication pending). There are easily recognisable broad and narrow phylloded forms. The narrow (really terete) one is found in drier areas further north.

There is a gradation to A. burkittii which was previously classified as a subspcies of A. acuminata. Acacia burkittii tends to occur further north and east in drier country (pastoral zone, midwest, and sometimes in the mallee extending through SA to NSW. You may find similar things out there which deserve analysis and should always be vouchered, strange creatures are out there!). I have generally found it on rocky outcrops and calcrete breakaways around claypans (always lots of aboriginal artwork near these areas too!), but these specimens are generally small. Larger trees occur on riverbanks but are less common. I would like to see a comparative analysis of plants from each of these locations and see what role environment plays in chemistry.

From the most recent acuminata analyses I have heard of I recall there was no 5Meo in the test material. This was contrary to expectations from smoked bioassay. Chemistry and subjective experience (qualitatively and quantitatively) are similar in variability to morphology.

Just a hint, most WA ethnobotanists are not very keen to answer noob questions about WA wattles... it is understandable as an area of interest, but if you are not prepared to get in the car and find some plants and do some science yourself, you won't get much sympathy here, and you won't get any assistance if your interest is purely rape and pillage. The phylogeny and ethnobotany of WA Acacias is IMO one of the most fascinating topics out there... easily akin to Trichocereus in complexity. Jump in and get your feet wet .

[Eluna]

Thanks for that! very helpful post!

I will say, i have already got my feet wet and experimented with acuminata, gone for some nice long drives and got some sort of a tan

I also am not about rape and pillage, i already have some acuminata growing, along with some calea z and catha edulis which are going very nicely after 6 months, those were all from cutlings and i am soon going to plant some seedlings for various cacti and a few other wattles.

Since i do not have access to advanced scientific equipment to measure alkaloid levels, i thought i would just enquire into if anyone else had done so, so i could get a better idea of what im dealing with.

Thanks again for all the helpful info

[DarkSpark]

I am not sure if this is right but cant you figure out the rough alkaloid content trhoguh weighing your final extract ??? i.e. if you start with 100g of plant matter and end up with 1g of goodies wouldn't this mean the content is around 1% ???

obviously you wouldn't be able to tell WHAT alkaloids are present but you can get the AMOUNt at least.

please correct me if this is wrong.

[alkatrope]

Firstly, you'd need to dry your bark completely.

You could then get a good idea but there's always a degree of loss in the process so your final yield is likely to be slightly lower than it would actually be.

It's not too difficult to isolate pure DMT so that's not an issue. You could also do a total alkaloid yield by weighing all the stuff you purified the DMT from.

[santiago]

the most unbelievable thing about this species is the smell of the fresh cut inner bark, it's truly a pleasure for the smell sense..it gives goosepimples in a smooth way and without being too weird if you simply for a second or two burn the green tip of a leaf it generally makes you sneeze but the ever so slight feeling of niceness acompanies for 20 seconds or so.....very mild maybe 1/10. if the woodchip is burnt for a few second also it produces a lovely smell smoke, almost like incence and possibly a 1.5/10.....this is purely subjectual and nothing to get excited about however just thought i would chip in

[santiago]

DP

Edited June 24, 2010 by santiago

[Chiral]

the most unbelievable thing about this species is the smell of the fresh cut inner bark, it's truly a pleasure for the smell sense..it gives goosepimples in a smooth way and without being too weird if you simply for a second or two burn the green tip of a leaf it generally makes you sneeze but the ever so slight feeling of niceness acompanies for 20 seconds or so.....very mild maybe 1/10. if the woodchip is burnt for a few second also it produces a lovely smell smoke, almost like incence and possibly a 1.5/10.....this is purely subjectual and nothing to get excited about however just thought i would chip in

 

Skatole

[shadow]

GO have a squiz down around Margies ,yellingup(spelling)Good luck

[Bush Turkey]

GO have a squiz down around Margies ,yellingup(spelling)Good luck

 

doesnt grow their! doesnt grow near the coast at all

[sharxx101]

This acacia seems to love melb even know it comes from armer parts, I have a few in the ground

[dazza501]

i just bought three of these, they are being sold at a local festival, $3 each, good root structure, foot + seedlings

[upside]

I just sprouted about 14 a.acuminata narrow phylode variety, but the fun in finding them in nature is quite a learning curve. I've seen a few around lately, my hopes rise then I notice the round flowers.. damn haha the adventure continues.... More reading, more looking...

[Auxin]

Next year I'm planning to start a mini-project testing to see if I can get any A. burkittii and A. acuminata 'narrow phyllode' plants to survive my winters.

I'm hoping to have them ~5cm tall at transplant, then placed 30 cm apart in 60+ cm wide rows to allow for 36 of each species in the ground I'm preparing for them. I expect most to die in the winter and I could move around any survivors in the following spring, so would the above spacing be adequate for 6 months of growth after transplant?

How many years (or how tall do they get) before flowering?

[Sallubrious]

Is it absolutely essential to get them in the ground in their first year ?

A lot Acacias don't really get a tough woody stem in their first growing season, so they might be a bit susceptible to cold in their first year if you get really heavy frosts. I'd keep them potted for 2 or 3 years and maintain them in a cold frame until they toughen up a bit more.

They can grow as a hedge but it won't be very dense until they get to about 4 or 5 years old and then that spacing could start to get a bit too close. The plants tend to grow quite sparsely at first and then when they get older 6-8 years they start to spread out and become as wider or wider than they are tall. So if they all survive that spacing will be good for the 5 years or so and then they'd become quite cramped, but you could always prune them to keep them manageable.

I've seen them flower and set seed albeit not very heavily at 3 years old.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Sally