Dead man took rat poison 'to get high'

[Chiral]

A man who ate rat poison to get high at a house party in central Queensland collapsed and died on the floor soon after, a court has been told.

Rockhampton man Myles Edward Stritzke is on trial for the manslaughter of Bronte James Clifford on June 8 last year, after Stritzke allegedly supplied the deadly chemical strychnine.

A woman who attended the party along with four other men, Gervase Laura Ballingall, told Rockhampton District Court yesterday Stritzke had brought along the rat poison in powder form inside a clip seal bag, telling the group it would give them a "buzz" but could also be lethal if too much was consumed.

Ms Ballingall gave evidence yesterday that she and two men smoked some marijuana in a bedroom at the house party.

Soon after returning to the lounge room, Ms Ballingall said Mr Clifford arrived, appearing “not all with it” and acting “a little hyper” before he collapsed on the floor.

Read the full story at The Rockhampton Morning Bulletin. vvvvv

GERVASE Laura Ballingall was meant to be going to the beach the night she met Bronte James Clifford and heard him die.

Ms Ballingall said she was standing under a Rockhampton house, directly below where she could hear people trying to resuscitate Mr Clifford after he allegedly collapsed from eating strychnine, a poison used to kill rats.

Instead of going to the beach on June 8 last year, Ms Ballingall went to a party in Rockhampton with Myles Edward Stritzke.

Ms Ballingall, 24, said she didn’t know any of the four or five men at the party, who were throwing glow sticks at each other when she arrived with Stritzke around 8pm.

Ms Ballingall said she saw Stritzke take a plastic clip-sealed bag from his pocket and leave it on a counter in the kitchen.

It’s alleged the powder inside the bag was strychnine, which Stritzke told people would give them a buzz but that too much could kill.

Stritzke is on trial in Rockhampton Supreme Court for manslaughter following Mr Clifford’s death.

The Crown case is that Stritzke is responsible for Mr Clifford’s death because he knew how deadly strychnine was.

Ms Ballingall gave evidence yesterday that she and two men smoked some marijuana in a bedroom at the house party.

Soon after returning to the lounge room, Ms Ballingall said Mr Clifford arrived, appearing “not all with it” and acting “a little hyper”.

Ms Ballingall admitted to the court that Mr Clifford rubbed her up the wrong way and she tried to tune him out.

She said she remembered Mr Clifford sitting at a table with Stritzke but couldn’t recall what they were talking about.

Ms Ballingall said out of the corner of her eye she saw Mr Clifford stand up, have a drink of something and heard him say something about going to the toilet.

She said he walked through the kitchen into the hallway and then she heard a thud.

“Someone said he’d tripped and Myles (Stritzke) was calling out to him to get a response.

“After that it all went sour.”

Ms Ballingall said she couldn’t see down the hallway but heard Stritzke yelling out: “Are you all right mate?”

When there was no response Stritzke went to see if Mr Clifford was okay, Ms Ballingall said.

“Then I could hear skin-on-skin slapping, as if he was possibly being slapped on the face or on the arm to try and get a response out of him,” she said.

“Then I think Myles called out to call an ambulance because he (Mr Clifford) was OD-ing.”

Ms Ballingall said she started having “a panic attack” and had to walk outside to the back steps.

She said when she “couldn’t take the sounds coming from the hallway” she moved underneath the house.

She described the sounds as “heavy thudding, like convulsions, sort of like an epileptic fit”.

Mr Clifford died at the scene.

The trial continues today.

SOURCE

[FancyPants]

Put that vile piece of mouldy rat splooge in jail. Of ALL the things he could have adulterated fake pills into containing he chose STRYCHNINE?

[mac]

The Cramps - Strychnine

[tripsis]

That is unbelievably fucked up.

[momomoto]

It's been big news around these parts for a while - the guys were very young at the time (18, 19?), the bloke stole it from his at the time estranged father, who'd had for years - before it was banned.

I'd heard myself that strychnine could get you high, which movie had said it I forget, but I had seen it or heard it somewhere.

I feel for these guys who have had to stoop to this level, if you've ever lived in Rocky (especially as a late-teen, early-20's male) then you know exactly where they are coming from.

From reading about this alkaloid I believe I've been sold a white powder laced with strychnine in the past, just some of the body effects seem to compare.

Some research:

An alkaloid found naturally in various plants, though contrary to popular opinion, not in most hallucinogenic ones.

Effects: In rats, it produces definite improvements in maze learning and visual and spatial discrimination. In humans, it has a stimulating effect on the spinal cord. It can produce a painful erection, a dangerously high heart rate, excessive body heat, and profuse sweating.

Precautions: It is extremely toxic.

Dosage: Doses high enough to result in measureable improvements in brain functioning (2 mg or more) carry a very high risk of rapid heart rate, convulsions, opisthotonus (a condition where the head is bent back as far as it will go), intense pain (consciousness is maintained until death), and death from respiratory paralysis; doses small enough to avoid these risks do not produce any measureable improvements. As yet, no one has isolated the brain-enhancing component for safe commercial use.

source: http://drugsafetysite.com/herbs/strychnine/

I find this below reference to be quite bizarre/highly dangerous

An alkaloid drug obtained from the seeds of Strychnos nux-vomica. In high doses, strychnine causes severe muscular spasms which can be fatal if respiratory muscles are involved. In low doses it can act as a stimulant, boosting athletic performance. A related chemical was used by the Aztecs to enable them to complete their amazing runs which lasted up to 3 days. In the nineteenth century and the early part of this century, disreputable trainers and coaches sometimes spiked the drinks of their charges with small amounts of strychnine to give them an extra boost during very demanding competitions, such as bare-knuckle fights. In the St. Louis Olympic Games of 1904, the marathon runner, Thomas Hicks, was given strychnine mixed with brandy, in order to inject a bit more pace into his last few kilometres of running.

source: http://www.answers.com/topic/strychnine

Strychnine

Anti-drug educators frequently tell their students some variant on the theme of inevitable strychnine poisoning through LSD use, for example, that strychnine is commonly sold as a cheaper substitute for LSD by unscrupulous drug dealers; that strychnine is a byproduct of LSD synthesis; that the body produces strychnine as a result of LSD metabolism; or that strychnine is somehow necessary to bond LSD to blotter paper.[7] None of this is true.[8] These memes may even be believed and propagated by drug users themselves. In reality, most hallucinogens cause some degree of mental or physical discomfort after the "trip" is over. This is an indirect effect of the drug,[8] not strychnine or any other adulterant. Additionally, strychnine itself is one of the most bitter substances known. The bitter taste can be detected at 1 part per million, which is well below the toxic level.[8] Finally, the dangerous dose of strychnine is too high to be contained in a blotter square, even if the entire square were composed of the poison.[8]

Strychnine has indeed rarely been discovered mixed with LSD and other drugs in a few samples recovered by law enforcement agencies, but these were all found in murder or attempted murder investigations where someone was being specifically targeted for poisoning, and not associated with recreational LSD use

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_legends...t_illegal_drugs

other info:

http://www.discoveriesinmedicine.com/Ra-Thy/Strychnine.html

http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_strychnine.htm

http://www.human-existence.com/blog/?p=332

Edited December 2, 2009 by momomoto

[Torsten]

Fancypants, why be so judgemental? where did it say he adulterated pills? Maybe you know more than me about this case, but how about this scenario: Supplier brings strychine to party and tells everyone it's strychnine. no one knows what that means, but they believe him that it will get them high. victim overdoses.

How would that be the supplier's fault? Did he really not tell anyone that it was strychnine or did they just not listen?

Imagine this was a different RC that you had brought to a part and you would end up in the supplier's position. You'd want the facts rather than the fear mognering, right?

I personally was very keen to try strychnine in my younger years and possibly even now. I've had tiny amounts and it seems interesting. Like anything it is fatal if you have to much and there is not a lot of margin for error, so probably not something to 'eyeball' from a baggie, but ignorance and fearmongering won't educate anyone about the true nature of strychnine.... which by the way was used medically and recreationally for a long time and is still a tradition in at least one shamanic culture.

[santiago]

I personally was very keen to try strychnine in my younger years and possibly even now.

Holy crap Torsten, in all honesty i found this forum (although was aware of it many years before via gomaos garden links) from typing in gooogle search "dxm" "australia".

As simple as that.

Maybe now some dude will type in "strychnine" "australia" and get some info. Hopefully not with a packet of ratsack in his shopping centre basket. If even that contains it. New news to me though recreational strychnine. The scary name should keep most sane people away hopefully not at all im saying you dont know your shit and may even be intelligent in your foresight on this subject.

Off topic avils (car sickness thingys) were the weird ass thing my generation experimented with. Kinda sad really. Who really wants to walk a few kms to pick a golden leaf from a special tree or wake up with a girl pissing on the end of their bed (a true friends story however of course the tree and the girl were true hallucinations).

[ballzac]

How would that be the supplier's fault? Did he really not tell anyone that it was strychnine or did they just not listen?

None of us really know enough about what happened to make a judgement, but it doesn't sound like this was the right setting to be introducing people to such a dangerous chemical. This would imply extreme negligence at least. People are told every day that 'ecstasy' (whatever that is) is extremely dangerous. Then they see people taking fifteen pill in a night and realise that it's not as dangerous as they've been led to believe. It's not unexpected that people will have a blasé attitude to taking chemicals.

If you offer someone something as dangerous as strychnine, you really need make sure they're not intoxicated at the time, that they understand the dangers, and also have the ability to measure out a safe dose. If you pull out a bag of white powder at a party and tell people it'll get them high, with a casual mention that too much can kill, you are definitely responsible for any deaths that occur IMO.

[Teotzlcoatl]

69ron over at the Nexus uses strychnine for different things.

[tripsis]

and is still a tradition in at least one shamanic culture

Which culture Torsten?

69ron over at the Nexus uses strychnine for different things.

Such as what?

Parties are not generally ideal places for taking drugs, especially ones with such acute dangers involved. If perhaps he had brought some 0.001g analytical scales along, telling people how much to have, then the accident might have been looked upon more favourably. But there was no mention of such a thing and in fact he just left the bag on the counter, which in itself is pretty negligent. Manslaughter seems a fairly just charge in my opinion.

[FancyPants]

Fancypants, why be so judgemental? where did it say he adulterated pills? Maybe you know more than me about this case, but how about this scenario: Supplier brings strychine to party and tells everyone it's strychnine. no one knows what that means, but they believe him that it will get them high. victim overdoses.

How would that be the supplier's fault? Did he really not tell anyone that it was strychnine or did they just not listen?

Imagine this was a different RC that you had brought to a part and you would end up in the supplier's position. You'd want the facts rather than the fear mognering, right?

I personally was very keen to try strychnine in my younger years and possibly even now. I've had tiny amounts and it seems interesting. Like anything it is fatal if you have to much and there is not a lot of margin for error, so probably not something to 'eyeball' from a baggie, but ignorance and fearmongering won't educate anyone about the true nature of strychnine.... which by the way was used medically and recreationally for a long time and is still a tradition in at least one shamanic culture.

You're absolutely right I have no idea what was said and am only going by this media report which obviously could be full of shit. BUT, if this guy didn't tell anybody it was strychnine, and just put white powder in caps in a baggie and left it on the kitchen bench, what would be the natural assumption of those at a party? Irresponsible for anyone to take anything they didn't know, but to be deliberately mislead is a different case altogether. Assuming they weren't told like I said.

Assuming he told them all it was strychnine and they didn't know what it was, boosux they shouldn't have taken it anyway, especially if he'd said too much was lethal. Ergo much less responsibility placed on his own head. Surely they would have recognised if he said "rat poison"? Would they still have taken it?

Assuming he told them all it was strychnine and they did know what it was then they hold the responsibility in taking a substance they didn't know too much about apart from being rat poison and that this guy told them small amounts would be fine. Should they still have taken it?

There's a lot of assumptions about a situation none of us were there to know, but on the face of somebody introducing white encapsulated powder that small amounts will give a buzz while larger amounts will kill (sound anything like a familiar empathic "party drug"?) KNOWING themselves it was rat poison in my books is mostly responsible for the fuckup at hand. If this guy was genuine about wanting to use and enjoy strychnine in relatively safe way about something used generally as poison, wouldn't he have done a hell of a lot more research and given his friends a lot more information about it? Hell he should've even labelled the bag "strychnine". I certainly try and label everything I can even if I think nobody else is likely to ever find it. Some bags I put "not for consumption" on them and I'm far from a meticulous amateur.

[Torsten]

Which culture Torsten?

The Colombian camalongueros.

Camalonga is the name of a plant drug in two areas and they use two different plants. The better known one is Thevetia peruviana seeds in Peru, while the Colombian one uses a Strychnos species seed.

http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2007/12/camalonga/

more info here too:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...amp;mode=linear

Strychnos seeds are also commonly used in ayurvedic preparations

[tripsis]

Thanks, those links provided some very interesting reads.

[nabraxas]

Parties are not generally ideal places for taking drugs

I must have been going to the wrong kind ov parties....

[Teotzlcoatl]

Such as what?

He said he used it as a Nootropic or something.... I donno, check it out at the Nexus!

69ron said- I know that small doses of strychnine act as a stimulant, and make your senses more acute. Sounds have more detail, colors are brighter, everything looks more intense, etc., so it almost sounds like something on the verge of being psychedelic. But from what I've read, even people suffering seizures from strychnine overdose don't have psychedelic effects. I keep reading that the mind remains clear even up until death from overdose of strychnine. The effects it has on the senses, while fantastic in low doses in combination with other psychedelics, are not truly psychedelic, it just increases your senses, it doesn't cause sense distortions, or at least that's what I've read.

Camalonga is the name of a plant drug in two areas and they use two different plants. The better known one is Thevetia peruviana seeds in Peru, while the Colombian one uses a Strychnos species seed.

Actually Torsten I believe there is three species which are used... two contain strychnine and the other is unique.

[Garbage]

Years ago i worked alongside what could best be described as a Scottish Hobo,he said he was working to get money to go on more adventures.

He had an account of taking Strychnine,but he was a drug abuser so his stories were probably nonsense.

But who knows,maybe rat poison was THE party drug in the dismal Scotland of the 70's/80's.

[Teotzlcoatl]

But who knows,maybe rat poison was THE party drug in the dismal Scotland of the 70's/80's.

It would not surprise me.

Kids in America in the 90s and sometimes still even today inhale "air duster" cans which gives them a strange high.

[tripsis]

I must have been going to the wrong kind ov parties....

Depends of the party, depends on the drugs and depends on intentions. As much fun as it may be tripping at a party, I think there are better places to do it.

Edited December 3, 2009 by tripsis

[AndyAmine.]

Yeah 'duster spray' is a crazy thing to use, it doesnt contain the basic hydrocarbons used in most aerosols that are commonly 'huffed' it contains Flurocarbons such as difluoroethane, trifluoroethane and tetrafluoroethane which AFAIK are much more toxic.

Im really not sure how that would have started to get so popular rather than just being used as a temporary replacement for butane or nitrous.

FYI Teotz: Butane like Nitrous was used as a human anesthetic around the early 20th century and can produce very plesent and profound effects for a very low cost and without the need for I.D, because of this people will often look for other aerosols around the house or shops as an alternative because these substances can be very psychologicly addictive not to mention enjoyable.

.

Inhalant use in 1st world countries is very, very common in the 10-18yrs age group and the lower socioeconomic classes, it has never really been a 'fad'.

Edited December 4, 2009 by AndyAmine.