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t st tantra

cannabis;the evil weed/the man with the golden arm

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8.30 tuesday on sbs for the cannabis one.

abc2 8.30 sat for otto premingers movie starring a young frank sinatra as a jazz drummer dealing with heroin addiction.very intense performance by sinatra!the music is worth a listen too!

[check time and station details for this one]

t s t .

Edited by t st tantra

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Awesome thanks for the heads up Tst, Ive been wanting to see The Man with the Golden Arm for over a decade and ironicly Im reading the book at the moment (which is birlliant by the way)

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Both seem very interesting, will be great to see the perspective views on drugs/addiction from over half a century ago.

And starring Frank Sinatra is just icing on the cake.

Cheers.

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Both seem very interesting, will be great to see the perspective views on drugs/addiction from over half a century ago.

And starring Frank Sinatra is just icing on the cake.

Cheers.

If anyone has foxtel natioanl geographic channel or discovery has a program called taboo drugs there is some rather ignorant crap in it but also some good factual info , i had it on last night and watched a bit on traditional Yopo use and MDMA before falling asleep very keen to see the rest of it

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That BBC documentary "The Evil Weed" actually has some very interesting information in it and is well worth watching. But as usual has some complete crap to it.

The thing that shits me the most is some idiot claiming to do nothing but smoke cannabis all day everyday, lying back in the chair like he's smacked out of his head in the middle of day, looking totally china eyed. If he was really such a heavy smoker he'd be able to handle his weed a little better and if he really wanted to stop so bad he would! His just a light wieght trying to get some attention and blame all he's personal problems on cannabis.

They also claim that you have a higher chance of developing schizoprenia if you smoke cannabis, without telling you how they came to that assumtion, which is a completly false and baseless claim. There able to hide there little political motives in statisics since people who have schozophenia are more likely to do drugs and cannabis is the easiest drug to get before you turn 18.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19560900

You can watch it on utube if you miss it on SBS tomorrow night.

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Abusing marijuana REALLY FUCKS YOU UP!!! as alot of us here already know : P physically and mentally.

now ive nothing against the erb' in fact i LOVE the stuff. I never want to go back to being a daily smoker however, to the point that I am physically and mentally dependant.

A point I found startling (and believable) when I was researching a group topic for work, was that MJ quadruples your risk of heart attack for an hour after injesting, due to the impact it has on your heartrate.

Again I LOVE my weed, in fact it would be my favourite drug ever, but now when I do have a smoke,(fortnightly at best) I really get the full effects LOL, sometimes even fractals, its more like a psychadelic trip than just 'gettin stoned', and takes a good 2 days to get over. I just think how much damage MJ must be doing to your system for your body and mind to have built tolerance to these effects. Out of all drugs i know of, marijuana has taken out more of my friends than any other. I believe this to be due to the theory that pot activates, and accentuates pre-existing and dormant mental illnesses.

I know sane people who smoke Mj and they function perfextly well, sometimes alot better than non-smokers.

However my friends who are tweekers should definately give the shit up and get themselves some professional help!!!

This points to my theory that only sane, grounded people should do drugs lol, and those that aernt should work to get themselves 'sane' so they can do drugs lol

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Abusing marijuana REALLY FUCKS YOU UP!!! as alot of us here already know : P physically and mentally.

now ive nothing against the erb' in fact i LOVE the stuff. I never want to go back to being a daily smoker however, to the point that I am physically and mentally dependant.

As long as I have tobacco bongs I don’t get physical withdraws, just can’t sleep and get really bored. The heaviest cannabis smokers that I’ve ever met have all been people that mixed it with tobacco and don’t smoke cigarettes. This may not be the case with everyone, but the fact is, you have to decide that life is so unpleasant that you have to get stoned continually everyday for a fair long time to make yourself think you need it or become ‘mentally dependent’.

A point I found startling (and believable) when I was researching a group topic for work, was that MJ quadruples your risk of heart attack for an hour after injesting, due to the impact it has on your heartrate.

Using cannabis has actually been shown to be healthy for your heart, kind of like going for a jog and I’ve read more studies claiming this than what your government propaganda study is trying to claim. If you produce the study ill produce one that has more credibility and says the opposite, lol.

Again I LOVE my weed, in fact it would be my favourite drug ever, but now when I do have a smoke,(fortnightly at best) I really get the full effects LOL, sometimes even fractals, its more like a psychadelic trip than just 'gettin stoned', and takes a good 2 days to get over.

Good for you, your body doesn’t tolerate cannabis well. Why be so ‘smug’ about it and deny it’s clear and amazing medical properties and it’s usually (for most people) incredibly gentle effects it has on the body, compared to other drugs!

By the way, when using it medically most people would probably prefer to get stoned than have a psychedelic experience, constantly. Just another wonderful thing about the cannabis plant, you can control the type of high though tolerance levels.

I just think how much damage MJ must be doing to your system for your body and mind to have built tolerance to these effects.

Maybe you should just watch the documentary that this thread is about, might give you a better understanding of the amazing relationship between cannabinoids from the cannabis plant and the human brain.

Out of all drugs i know of, marijuana has taken out more of my friends than any other. I believe this to be due to the theory that pot activates, and accentuates pre-existing and dormant mental illnesses.

You clearly don’t know much alcoholics, or are incredibly young cause I can think of three people that I know(n) that have permanently screwed their bodies and have clearly given themselves brain damage from alcohol, before thier 30th birthday, not even heroin could do this. Everyone I know that has gone downhill abusing cannabis has always been able to stop and walk away, without a scratch once they 'really' wanted too, well, didnt you? Unless there were either mental health or family issues. Healthy people do not have problems with cannabis once they abstain from abusing it.

BTW, your key word being theory! The link I provided was to a scientific study that ‘scientifically’ proves that cannabis does ‘not’ give people a mental illness that wouldn’t have got it anyway. But you would probably be more interested in reading about cannabis giving people hard attacks I guess, LOL.

This points to my theory that only sane, grounded people should do drugs lol, and those that aernt should work to get themselves 'sane' so they can do drugs lol

It’s the other way around, drugs are there to help us, feed the mind and heal the sick. Get recreationally high on all the drugs you want, people should be able to make their own choice, but to claim that drugs should only be taken recreationally and not by the sick, just proves that you haven’t thought this whole situation out very hard.

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This points to my theory that only sane, grounded people should do drugs lol, and those that aernt should work to get themselves 'sane' so they can do drugs lol

that rememinds me of this quote i read from this indian swami called swami rama. this guy actually has some really great & interesting things to say & i recommend his book Living With the Himalayan Masters. anyway the part of the book i'm referring to (which i think a lot of people will find very interesting) is the chapter where he speaks about soma & he actually believes & claims to have met & lived with people who live in the deep himalayas who still use the true ancient soma (but thats another story).

so anyway he's talking about the use of psychedelic drugs as a means of spiritual development & to justify why he feels psychedelics aren't the wisest choice as a spiritual path he said something along the lines of:

"these substances are only useful if you are absolutely mentally & spiritually prepared & if you are not they can be very dangerous. however if you are absolutely mentally & spiritually prepared then you really do not need them ."

i personally find this very pertinent even though i don't follow this advice to the letter myself. i'm sure it may not be a very popular statement to a lot of people on this site but i think it's very interesting & worth thinking about if self development is your focus.

...anyway

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I see and acknowledge your point.

Im sorry if I appear smug, its not my intent. like I said, I love mj, and have been a horrific chronic in my time.

I agree that mj cant 'cause' psychosis/schitzophrenia. My point was that it can 'bring to the surface' dormant conditions or accentuate pre-existing. i.e people with fucked up heads shouldnt smoke MJ!!

Yes my body has a low tolerance, as i am no longer saturated, and i receive the full effects, kinda like when you first ever got high, and i love it!!!

I do know that MJ contains more carcinogens than tobacco, and mj is more commonly inhaled deeper into the lungs and held in them for a longer duration than tobacco-

If you are prone to having a heart attack and go for a jog, the chances are you are more likely to have a heart attack.

I really think Mj gets of lightly as a 'soft drug' ESPECIALLY ultra strong hydroponically grown gear.

PS i dont work for the government. I work for a community who are helping people who are killing themselves with their addictions. If you think MJ is all chocolate chip cookies, banana smoothies and late night infomercials, you should pop in for a reality check, or maybee thats a check you havent taken for yourself. MJ is great for that.

edit- Unless there were either mental health or family issues. Healthy people do not have problems with cannabis once they abstain from abusing it. i agree, except maybee emphasemia if used for a long duration?

BTW, your key word being theory! The link I provided was to a scientific study that ‘scientifically’ proves that cannabis does ‘not’ give people a mental illness that wouldn’t have got it anyway. But you would probably be more interested in reading about cannabis giving people hard attacks I guess, LOL. word, im not discounting medicinal marijuanas applications!! Im not saying MJ is evil!! though i think you would be foolish to also discount the suffering that the abuse of MJ can cause! gawd i know first hand!!! and i mean it is ALL theory isnt it? i mean you can prove anything you want if your willing to argue long enough. This (4x chance of heart attack) thing struck me as interesting, as a 22yr old friend of mine(chronic) had a heartyin march after a session. Im of a mind that he was predisposed, but thats not to say that MJ didnt have its play in bringing it on.

This was high potency hydro, and even after i had a cone of this stuff my heart would race out of my chest!!

Anyways food for thought, and please man I am not one to ever judge someone on their addictions, ever. I am a past addict in every sense of that word. Peace!!!

As long as I have tobacco bongs I don’t get physical withdraws, just can’t sleep and get really bored

Kava and Gardening. Dude- you can do better than baccy bongs ; P

Edited by incognito

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Thanks t st. although i misread this thread and thus half the show i saw the last half just now by accident.

As always with these MJ docos I am left wanting more insight, but it was thought provoking nonetheless.

I esp. liked the dude in England at his MJ farm who was making the extract and what he had to say about CBD(?) (cannabinoids?). That was really fascinating and i think i understand this plant a little better now and the medicine it could potentially deliver.

I think this is what we have been talking (or what you have been talking to me) about for the last few years t st. And it finally makes so much more sense :rolleyes:

I like plants that contain paradoxes and contradictions. Marijuana is certainly one of those.

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Yeah, i agree w/Jabez, if you get fucked up because ov marijuana abuse then it's your fault not the erbs, which as we all know is gods gift to humankind & can do nothing wrong.

All the government paid scientists with their so called proofs & theories like:

In conclusion, the authors say: "The observed increases in apolipoprotein C3 in the marijuana users hint of the possibility that chronic marijuana abuse could lead to impairments of cellular energetics and mitochondrial function, which are critical events associated with myocardial infarction, stroke, and ischemic/reperfusion damage."

http://massageforadults.blogspot.com/2008/...ana-may-be.html

It's all just words, part ov a conspiracy so they can keep all the best buds for themselves...

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IME hydro and bush are two different discussions. have smoked both for extended periods over the years (avg frequency say 3 nights a week) and i will aviod hydro if i can. both have been a very positive influence on my life but one is clearly a cleaner exp than the other. i havnt heard of a racing heart on bush.

in the reading i have done, mj definitely does not have more carcinogens than tobacco, if you have any solid info (not govnt sponsored) on this i would love to have a squiz. infact there is new evidence that MJ reduces the risk of certain cancers.

as for the medicinal benifit, there is no argument.

abusers dont do pot any favours and seem to be the only focus of its use, there are many smokers that live active healthy contributing lives but fly under the radar. (if i lie in the sun for too long i get burnt, although short spurts are are good for my health.)

but there is nothing that is suitable for everyone.

in the US 100 people die a year from peanut allergy, wheres the war on peanuts!

MAKE COOKIES NOT WAR. :P

kork

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Yeah, i agree w/Jabez, if you get fucked up because ov marijuana abuse then it's your fault not the erbs, which as we all know is gods gift to humankind & can do nothing wrong.

All the government paid scientists with their so called proofs & theories like:

http://massageforadults.blogspot.com/2008/...ana-may-be.html

It's all just words, part ov a conspiracy so they can keep all the best buds for themselves...

the above link is to a report written by NIDA (National institute on drug abuse) which is a United States federal government research institute. credibility = 0

pretty solid evidence "hint of the possibility". if there was clear evidence there would be no hinting of possibilities there would be images of failing hearts, lungs, brains plastered in more places than for tobacco, but there is none. mmm?

edit: just a reminder that the states have 5% of the worlds population and 25% of the imprisoned population.

Edited by Korky

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IME I have found the flip side, the majority of commercial grade bush is straight Sativa or Sativa dominant vs Hydro which is the opposite (Indica) and its the Sativa that tends to lead to a racing heart and the can often last a lot longer.

I have also found that the majority of people I know that have mental issues with pot say that a lot of bush and most Sativa or high THC vs CBD strains will give them problems (Indica being higher in CBD)

Also people shouldn't believe the common myth that 'bush/outdoor' is always a lot cleaner than hydro as this simply isn't the case as a lot of bush is grown with slow release pellets and stuff like miracle grow which is totally synthetic, contains a lot of salts and is rarely flushed out plus it is common to see commercial bush with mold issues.

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IME I have found the flip side, the majority of commercial grade bush is straight Sativa or Sativa dominant vs Hydro which is the opposite (Indica) and its the Sativa that tends to lead to a racing heart and the can often last a lot longer.

I have also found that the majority of people I know that have mental issues with pot say that a lot of bush and most Sativa or high THC vs CBD strains will give them problems (Indica being higher in CBD)

Also people shouldn't believe the common myth that 'bush/outdoor' is always a lot cleaner than hydro as this simply isn't the case as a lot of bush is grown with slow release pellets and stuff like miracle grow which is totally synthetic, contains a lot of salts and is rarely flushed out plus it is common to see commercial bush with mold issues.

interesting, what you say does reflect what this threads doco presented regarding CBD. but must admit my experience with hydro has been more cloudy than the body high attributed to indica. that could be a number of things of course. i havnt had to buy bush so its all been clean so far and i have no smoking friends that have wrestled mental issues, so havent seen this relationship first hand. but it all makes sense.

thanks for the insight.

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Yeah, i agree w/Jabez, if you get fucked up because ov marijuana abuse then it's your fault not the erbs, which as we all know is gods gift to humankind & can do nothing wrong.

All the government paid scientists with their so called proofs & theories like:

http://massageforadults.blogspot.com/2008/...ana-may-be.html

It's all just words, part ov a conspiracy so they can keep all the best buds for themselves...

I'm off for a holiday to nimbin so ill make this quick.

You just need to look at the heading of the link you provided to see that it is an assumtion and not a scientific conclusion.

More Evidence that Marijuana 'May' be Linked to Heart Attack

That’s how the government creates the propaganda around cannabis. Whenever you see a study claiming cannabis causes people to develop psychosis, they fill it up with the words, may, might, could and seems, without actually ever giving any scientific evidence as to how they came to their conclusion, which scientifically talking makes it an assumption and a "conspiracy theory" by the true definition, which is a belief without any actual evidence to back it up. Although, I think the reason the government does this is a little more complicated than wanting to keep all the good buds for themselves. I'm not going to try to explain to you why cannabis was made illegal right around the world in the first place, because you should already know and it wasn’t for any one reason and it would take a long time to type it all out, but I don’t think anyone who has actually researched the issue would deny it had nothing to do with the apparent dangers of using cannabis.

But, one main reason governments around the world still try to push all there propaganda is because of international treaties, which the US, Russia and China hold the rest of the world too, I think it’s also basically because most governments would rather leave such a touchy issue for someone else to deal with it. But if you want to see how inconsistent governments are with their claims, you just have to see how the mainstream media of different countries treat the issue, for example in the US you very rarely them talk about “cannabis induced psychosis”, probably because it’s very hard to sell that kind of BS to people when there’s people all over the country using it medically, they usually just claim it’s a gateway drug and would set a bad example to kids. The UK media are unbelievable you constantly hear them carrying on about how one joint puts you at 30x more risk of developing psychosis, or whatever amount they think would sound scary at the time. Then Australia media just tries not to talk about the issue, but if forced they will just say experts are worried about the ‘possible’ mental health issues that are associated with using cannabis. Don’t forget it wasn’t 5 years ago that they were trying to tell us that the potency of cannabis has increased 30x what it used to be. They were comparing the weakest cannabis ever tested by the most potent ever tested which was under 1% THC (which would not get a flea stoned) to 27% THC which is incredibly potent, but most people would never smoke cannabis this potent, anyway.

People can believe what they want and it would be a lot easier to blame the big bad weed, rather than excepting that it was something that you were born with. Like on the documentary were they showed you that poor kid talking about how bad the voices are and then they go straight to the parents claiming they know it was the herb that did it (in there expert opinion), of course there going to say that, why would they want to except that it was something they passed on to their son, when they can just as easierly blame cannabis.

BTW, I’m telling you guys as a known fact that hydroponically grown cannabis has nothing to do with it; it’s simply the strain of cannabis. Each strain has its own little signature high to it and I could except that there is a problem with a small amount of vulnerable people smoking large amounts of cannabis with high amounts of THC and very little amounts of CBD (which is anti-psychotic) though a bong mixed with tobacco (tobacco not only makes it additive, but also more potent), over and over again for years, still can’t be proven that even this has any long term side effects, though.

I have smoked cannabis (indica strain) that I know was grown outside which was so potent that you have trouble finding your centre of gravity for the first few minutes after getting out of bed and was just horrible for depression and then I’ve smoked cannabis sativa/indica hybrid, usually the best) that was just as potent (but more gentle on the body) that was grown in perfect indoor conditions and just did wonders.

It’s all about the strain of cannabis you use.

Like they said on that documentary cannabiol receptors are one of the densest in our brains, that one statement really sums up how much cannabis can benefit people who are using the right strains for whatever they need it for.

Forgetting about its environmentally friendly potential the cannabis plant has with materials and forgetting you can make one of the most healthiest oils from the seed, I gotta say personally I’m amazed at what even synthetic cannabinoids are capable of. Once we start studying this whole thing properly, without ignorance getting in the way, I think we will all be amazed with what we can do to help mankind with cannabinoids, from medicine for so many different things down to safe recreational drugs with all different kinds of effects.

CANNABIS IS THE FUTURE

EDIT: BTW, in reality it's like the guy said at the end of the documentary (which I agree with), the way cannabis screws peoples lives up is not though a direct change in brain chemistry, but rather though a indirect effect of lost relationships and opportunitys from people who abuse it and just sit around all day tokin and not getting things done. This is clearly the fault of the abuser and not cannabis, since if it wasn't the herb it would have been something else.

Edited by jabez

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Whenever you see a study claiming cannabis causes people to develop psychosis, they fill it up with the words, may, might, could and seems, without actually ever giving any scientific evidence as to how they came to their conclusion, which scientifically talking makes it an assumption and a "conspiracy theory" by the true definition, which is a belief without any actual evidence to back it up.

have you done your own research? where are your studies, you cannot be biased in studies, as you are in your thinking, i am not for and not against, but i think as a society we need to look at the problems that drugs create in society, not only pot, but the other harder drugs too. if you want a real view of what pot does to you, mentally, physically, look at all studies, compare, maybe create your own study, get a grant. then maybe you can post your opinons, not only with passion but the facts to back it up.

your opinon could be viewed as a conspiracy theory too?

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I would just like to get some things straight here.

Firstly, this whole Bush / Hydro naming needs to be clear. When people are referring to bush, they are referring to the lose whispy buds right? and hydro the dense ones? it seems like it.

Fact is this is incorrect. You can grow the strain Romulan, which looks like badly looked after weed in a cupboard in bubblers with a light above and to most stoners, they would think it is bush.

Just because a plant is grown in hydro does not make it stronger. It may grow slightly quicker due to the nutrients being highly available, but strength is mostly attributed to strain. This comment pisses me off because governments and health departments love to demonise hydroponics like it allows some sort of superlab of weed which is just total shit.

Stronger indoor pot can be obtained by using UVA/UVB Lights which makes the plant produce more tricombes to protect it self. Theoretically, outdoor pot should be much stronger per gram than indoor given the conditions are good.

Strong strains are easily available, and commercial cash croppers will use strains that pack as much bud as they can get into a given space, so these are usually indicas. While sativa may give soaring highs with high heart rates, i personally find some of the strong indicas to much to handle, and sometimes to bring on paranoia more often than sativas, but it is strain and strength dependent.

The merits of flushing/not flushing v. soil/soilless is still up for debate in the communities. Both sides can use synthetic or organic fertilizers which both in the end allow for these minerals to become available to the plant. Available nitrogen is nitrogen, doesn't matter what it comes from.

In regards to the doco, i thought it was good, it didn't jump to either side of the fence. I did like the smug look of the guy that mentioned that cannabis had a anti-psycotic in it and i also agree and respect with the comment at the very end about while cannabis is not in the whole scheme of things, very damaging to the body at all, its the apathy it can cause that is probably the bigger issue.

Edited by Eth_Head

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CANNABIS IS THE FUTURE

but hang on, you cant sleep without it?? without smoking tobacco bongs?? mmm yum!!

sounds like a rad future man

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Id like to say something, I am bipolar with schizoid tendencies. I am very sensitive with cannabis (and psychedelics) to the point where I can feel something from a crumb. But I was smoking it before I was diagnosed and it DOSE make me very prone to psychosis where i have to be very careful when I smoke it.

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cannabis is a strong psychedelic. if you don't have a tolerance it can & does blow your mind! i think care should be taken with it same as any psychedelic as it has the potential to change your consciousness in profound ways. & all people are different & have very different chemistries which interact with different chemicals in very different ways. some people are much more prone to various side effects than others. i think incog has a point when he said that mj must cause a lot of damage when a tolerance has been reached & you really don't feel anything much at all when you get stoned. i'm not sure if damage is the right word, i guess that depends on the individual & the particular circumstance & level of use, but some pretty strong changes must be occuring as cannabis truly is a very strong hallucinogenic drug which causes very pronounced changes in consciousness when taken without tolerance. so for those effects to be almost un-noticeable is saying something no?

with responsible use it's a brilliant medicine & can be a wonderful ally if it suits your temperament & chemistry.

from what i've seen, the people that have had the most trouble from mj are the ones who started very early & were chronic smokers from a young age. like early teens onwards. i know first hand. i had my first smoke when i was 9! by the age of 11-12 i smoked it somewhat regularly (with long periods of not smoking) & was pretty into it when i was 14-15. it was just a part of the community where i grew up & most kids i knew did the same thing pretty much. i think i was lucky, i know it has sent some of my old friends on tangents they never quite came back from. it certainly sent me on a tangent... changed how my brain developed in certain ways for sure. some affects were positive i believe & some affects i feel i would be much better off without.

but thats when i reckon it can do the most harm...strong use at a young age...& people who have incompatible chemistry or a high psycho-sensitivity. like terence mckenna once said, if people have been seeing ufo's, lucid dreaming & having transdimentional out of body/astral projection like experiences their whole lives, he doesn't recommend a strong program of psychedelic drug use. as you probably don't need it. probably good advice ;) if you haven't however then you probably need to get up to speed lol

Edited by xodarap

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bit off topic but there is some show on abc1 tonight or tomorrow worth watching, wish i knew the name of it? all i know is when i turned on the tv the guy said "this is a plant i cant live without" while showing a picture of a Brugmansia Sanguinea!!! if someone knows the name of the show could you please post it?

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'xodarap'

"these substances are only useful if you are absolutely mentally & spiritually prepared & if you are not they can be very dangerous. however if you are absolutely mentally & spiritually prepared then you really do not need them ."

So, in other words you’re saying that psychedelics’ aren’t fit for human consumtion, lol

'incognito'

Yes my body has a low tolerance, as i am no longer saturated, and i receive the full effects, kinda like when you first ever got high, and i love it!!!

Everybody has a low tolerance to cannabis once they abstain from it, but if it takes you over two days 2 get over the effects then you have a really low tolerance to it and are probably one of the few people that probably shouldn’t be smoking it in the first place, I'm the same with alcohol, but does that make alcohol some evil substance that grown adults don’t have the right to use in the privacy of their own home?

'incognito'

I do know that MJ contains more carcinogens than tobacco, and mj is more commonly inhaled deeper into the lungs and held in them for a longer duration than tobacco-

People usually smoke cannabis though a (also have you ever heard of a vaporizer or are you aware it can be eaten) bong which cools down the smoke and makes it far less dangerous, plus people don’t tend to smoke as much cannabis as tobacco smokers tend to smoke and on top of that its never been proven that cannabis is a major concern for lung damage, not saying it isn’t just stating that the evidence is inconclusive. Let’s keep this to factual evidence and not moralism, I mean where not ignorant Christians, are we?

'incognito'

I really think Mj gets of lightly as a 'soft drug' ESPECIALLY ultra strong hydroponically grown gear.

Although I’m sure you’re a very intelligent person, you really show your true ignorance making statements like this, I mean you’re a gardener aren’t you? If so you really should have a better understanding of genetics.

'incognito'

PS i dont work for the government. I work for a community who are helping people who are killing themselves with their addictions. If you think MJ is all chocolate chip cookies, banana smoothies and late night infomercials, you should pop in for a reality check, or maybee thats a check you havent taken for yourself. MJ is great for that.

How much people have you meet that get physically sick from abstaining from cannabis, like people do from alcohol and heroin? Plus its the oldest trick in the book, I have known endless amounts of people that do it; "I swear I only smoke a little cannabis" BS! Plus, don't make the mistake of thinking I havent been around these people all my life, they sit around with a can of bourban and coke at 10 in the morning, carrying on how the weed is there problem!!!

'incognito'

word, im not discounting medicinal marijuanas applications!! Im not saying MJ is evil!! though i think you would be foolish to also discount the suffering that the abuse of MJ can cause! gawd i know first hand!!! and i mean it is ALL theory isnt it? i mean you can prove anything you want if your willing to argue long enough. This (4x chance of heart attack) thing struck me as interesting, as a 22yr old friend of mine(chronic) had a heartyin march after a session. Im of a mind that he was predisposed, but thats not to say that MJ didnt have its play in bringing it on.

This was high potency hydro, and even after i had a cone of this stuff my heart would race out of my chest!!

So you’re trying to claim that you witnessed the first known death in the history of the world caused by smoking cannabis. I think it’s fair to say that this poor bloke was wasn’t going to be hanging around for too long whether a smoked cannabis or not, he clearly had heart problems.

Also, please quit talking about this super hydroponic propaganda. What you mean to say is a high potency strain of cannabis.

BTW, abusing anything can cause suffering to people and it doesn’t even need to be a drug, it could be too much sex or driving dangerously in a car. Am I also foolish for blaming the people who have destroyed their (and others) lives this way, rather than blaming sex and cars?

'incognito'

Anyways food for thought, and please man I am not one to ever judge someone on their addictions, ever. I am a past addict in every sense of that word. Peace!!!

I gotta admit incognito, you have a very polite way of calling someone a junkie. I suppose I can accept that, since I enjoy being stoned all the time, but that doesn’t make cannabis any less a medical herb and I do have a medical condition that I was born with. I've smoked for over 13 years and have quit for 6 months there and 12 months here a number of times, trying to do it their way, with their shitty antidepressants and benzodiazepines, but none of them can make me eat healthy have a good routine when it comes to sleep, allow me to be content with socializing with people and most of all give me some inspiration that there’s actually a meaning to this spinning rock we inhabit.

So with all due respect fuck you people and your alcohol or kava or whatever it is, cannabis is the only thing that helps with my medical condition and I know I’m not the only one

'incognito'

Kava and Gardening. Dude- you can do better than baccy bongs ; P

Gardening is a brilliant idea, just getting back into it now (my turkeys poults are also starting to hatch, which is cool and also keeps my mind consumed) but I live in cold arse western Victoria where the grass barely grows in winter and its mostly to cold to go outside. So WTF are you meant to do to kill boredom in the middle of winter down here, lol.

Also, tobacco has been smoked for thousands of years and is the most potent (non hallucinogenic) 'organic' smoke blend you can smoke though a bong (except for maybe opium) I really don’t understand why people see smoking tobacco out of a bong as disgusting, I love tobacco and enjoy smoking it out of a water pipe.

My whole point was, which obviously went right over your head is that adding tobacco to your cannabis makes it additive. I must also say you also really show your Hypocrisy (to particular drugs) when you start claiming that cannabis is not a medical and is unfit for human consumption, but kava is just fine, I bet you even drink alcohol?

'spudamore'

have you done your own research? where are your studies, you cannot be biased in studies, as you are in your thinking, i am not for and not against, but i think as a society we need to look at the problems that drugs create in society, not only pot, but the other harder drugs too. if you want a real view of what pot does to you, mentally, physically, look at all studies, compare, maybe create your own study, get a grant. then maybe you can post your opinons, not only with passion but the facts to back it up.

your opinon could be viewed as a conspiracy theory too?

Firstly, prohibition causes far more problems in society than any drug known to man could ever do, even alcohol!!!

I have done endless research on the cannabis plant and read all studies especially if I don’t agree with it!

My whole argument is based on a very impressive study that I have already posted but since, but since you already know it all and clearly didn’t read it I will post the abstract for ya!

Assessing the impact of cannabis use on trends in diagnosed schizophrenia in the United Kingdom from 1996 to 2005.

Department of Medicines Management, Keele University, Staffordshire, UK. [email protected]

A recent systematic review concluded that cannabis use increases risk of psychotic outcomes independently of confounding and transient intoxication effects. Furthermore, a model of the association between cannabis use and schizophrenia indicated that the incidence and prevalence of schizophrenia would increase from 1990 onwards. The model is based on three factors: a) increased relative risk of psychotic outcomes for frequent cannabis users compared to those who have never used cannabis between 1.8 and 3.1, B) a substantial rise in UK cannabis use from the mid-1970s and c) elevated risk of 20 years from first use of cannabis. This paper investigates whether this has occurred in the UK by examining trends in the annual prevalence and incidence of schizophrenia and psychoses, as measured by diagnosed cases from 1996 to 2005. Retrospective analysis of the General Practice Research Database (GPRD) was conducted for 183 practices in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The study cohort comprised almost 600,000 patients each year, representing approximately 2.3% of the UK population aged 16 to 44. Between 1996 and 2005 the incidence and prevalence of schizophrenia and psychoses were either stable or declining. Explanations other than a genuine stability or decline were considered, but appeared less plausible. In conclusion, this study did not find any evidence of increasing schizophrenia or psychoses in the general population from 1996 to 2005.

Assessing the impact of cannabis use on trends in diagnosed schizophrenia

There was a study released by the MHCA a few years back that was meant to be the largest study about cannabis ever done in Australia called Wheres Theres Smoke. The howard government went to the media (with the study in hand) and claimed that they finally had the prove that cannabis is a major cause of mental illness in Australia. Now if you flicked though the study and just read the headlines, a person could very easierly walk away thinking cannabis is the worst drug out there, with all their personal opinions and antidotal evidence (they do this so the media can chop the study up and make it look as bad as they want), 'but' if you actually take the time to read all 76 pages of the study you’ll see that there don’t conclude that cannabis is a major cause of mental illness at all.

When I sent a email to the MHCA asking why they allowed the government to claim their study was claiming that cannabis was a major cause of mental illness, when the study clearly did not state that, they sent me back a email saying they didn’t claim cannabis was a major cause of mental illness and that I totally misunderstood what the study was about and then accused me of not even reading it, WTF!

BTW, can you supply me with a peer reviewed study where the researchers outright claim there’s such a thing as “cannabis induced psychosis” and media reports are not counted it must be the study or at least the abstract to the study.

'incognito'

CANNABIS IS THE FUTURE

but hang on, you cant sleep without it?? without smoking tobacco bongs?? mmm yum!!

sounds like a rad future man

Your starting to sound a bit angry there incognito, maybe it’s time for a another bowl of kava, lol.

Like I’ve already stated I have a medical condition and have had serious problems with appetite and sleep ever since I was born and anyway so what if I need a medical herb to get to sleep and so what if I have formed a habit and feel the need to smoke a herb every day, are you trying to say that a person who uses opiates for pain can’t get addicted and once they do get addicted does this mean that they are no longer a medical user and can only now be classed a addict, who don’t deserve drugs to kill their pain?

'xodarap'

cannabis is a strong psychedelic. if you don't have a tolerance it can & does blow your mind! i think care should be taken with it same as any psychedelic as it has the potential to change your consciousness in profound ways. & all people are different & have very different chemistries which interact with different chemicals in very different ways. some people are much more prone to various side effects than others. i think incog has a point when he said that mj must cause a lot of damage when a tolerance has been reached & you really don't feel anything much at all when you get stoned. i'm not sure if damage is the right word, i guess that depends on the individual & the particular circumstance & level of use, but some pretty strong changes must be occuring as cannabis truly is a very strong hallucinogenic drug which causes very pronounced changes in consciousness when taken without tolerance. so for those effects to be almost un-noticeable is saying something no?

That’s a point, but you have to remember that cannabis can’t really be compared to other drugs, since you can’t over dose from it, so common sense would probably tell you that of course there would come a point with cannabis when it no longer effects you, otherwise you’d be able to overdose on it , right? I mean it’s not like the tolerance that you get off alcohol and other drugs where you just need more to get the same effect. Which to me personally indicates how harmless it is on your brain, since you get to the point where the less you smoke the higher you get, unlike any other drug known to man where no matter how much tolerance you have to it, if you just take more and more you’ll continue getting higher till you overdose and die. Cannabis just doesn’t work this way, with weed you get to the point where it says to you 'cut' down or ill no longer give you joy, this is unique with all drugs.

Also, although cannabis can be incredibly potent (truly psychedelic, without a tolerance), like has already been pointed out, it’s all got to do with the strain and method you use it. For example I know people that just totally flip out when they smoke a bong, but really love there joints and simply don’t have any issues with cannabis as long as they stay away from bongs and only smoke joints, also if cannabis was legal you could buy different strains (mild/potent and strains with the exact effect that you’re looking for) knowing exactly what to expect, rather than just being able to buy cannabis on the street that is purposely breed to just blow you away.

At the end of the day the cannabis plant should be fully legal for adult consumption and fully researched for its obviously incredible medical benefits and there’s not a logical argument in the world that could dispute this fact.

peace

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So, in other words you’re saying that psychedelics’ aren’t fit for human consumtion, lol

no not saying that, i just felt the quote was food for thought. if you're not very careful how you use them, psychedelics can be damaging & i kind of feel that if you're not somewhat prepared for the experience & so able to integrate it in a useful & healthy way, then in the long run concerning self development, the benefits are probably questionable & you could actually be setting yourself back. not saying this is the rule, just something worth considering if you're serious about self development & want to be as honest with yourself as possible.

i gotta say i agree with much that you say. i absolutely believe we should absolutely without a doubt have the right to use this medicine, i think it's a wonderful & incredible herb.

i just think it's important to be as honest as we can be with ourselves & look at all the sides to the story. that said i believe the positive aspects of mj use far outweigh the negative. & the negative aspects are probably mostly due to a lack of education & the ability to apply what knowledge we do have to excercise self control in the interests of our health.

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Yeah sorry xodarap,

My reponse to you was a poor attempt of humor. I argee that quote is food for thought and is something that should be considered, if you are really interested in using these plants to understanding what it is we are apart of, rather than just get smashed.

Peace

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