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narayan

syrian rue and friends

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hi all,

Peganum Harmala (syrian rue) and other species of the Zygophyllaceae family are proclaimed weeds here in south australia and grow quite prolifically.

I was wondering does anyone know if other members of the Zygophyllaceae family could be a suitable replacement for syrian rue as a MAOI inhibitor?

This stuff grows like a mother fucker (esp caltrop) and is really hard to get rid of, if SA peeps started collecting all the seed they could find then we'd all be doing the environment, state government and local landholders a huge favour, as well as having a plentiful supply of a MAOI inhibitor.

If i can find out some specific areas in which it grows would anyone be interested in knowing where abouts to find it so they can collect seed?

I'm pretty sure its too wet and cold around adelaide for it to grow, but i know it grows further north.

[ 01. June 2004, 15:25: Message edited by: narayan ]

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try the dormant roots. I would suspect them to be more potent.

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Tribulus terrestris (calthrop) is P. harmala's closest cousin and some have reported success with using the extract for MAO inhibition.

Likewise, Passiflora species have been mentioned as somewhat MAO inhibiting.

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I found a paper in Phytochemistry dealing with P harmal in wetern China and the translocation of alkaloids between the aerial and subterranean parts seasonally

and as T says - the dormant roots are prob mere potent and may contain none of the sickening shite in the seeds

as for the environment - harvetsing seed would possibly be bad as youd no doubt spread it more in the process - but harvesting the roots would seriously dent the weed population, probably to the point youd have to start planting it on private land to replace lost supply.

As for other zygophylls. get yourself a UV light from tandys and go see, the harmala alkaloids glow fluorescent green - try chewing up a few rue seeds and lick your hand and see!

[ 02. June 2004, 02:06: Message edited by: reville ]

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tribilus is three corner jack in sa and i have seen it covering large areas in campbelltown and salisbury.

t s t .

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My experience is that Passiflora leaves are a lot stronger than Trib. Terr. I can get a buzz off an acidified tea made with 50g of dried leaves. Unfortunately, it has a bit of an anxiety component, similar to Yohimbe or even a nicotine OD. Oddly enough, when I precipitated the alkaloids using a Manske-type salt reaction, the effect was a cleaner, more euphoric stimulation. Why people say that MAOIs make them sleepy is beyond me, but then I haven't taken enough to get to the trippy stage.

My impressions from reading about Trib. Terr. is that it is possibly more suitable as a daily tonic sort of thing, as it contains a number of health-promoting substances apart from the alkaloids.

Also, Passiflora flowers are completely different from the leaves. These are reputed to contain anxiolytic flavonoids, but I have never got much of an effect from dried, commercial material. Interestingly, the alcohol extract looks and smells almost identical to the alcohol extract of poppies, ie, a sweetish latex.

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John,I used to live in a rented house down your way in Calwell.

In the backyard was a P.Incarnata vine that I smoked and made tea out of many times.The tea was an excellent anxiolitic and the smoke was reminiscent of Kava X hooter and VERY workable and pleasant.

I'm kicking myself for not taking cuttings of this plant as most people laugh when I say I had effects from smoking it...pm me if you want the addy to mount a guerilla raid on the property :D

Seriously though has anyone else smoked passiflora by itself or as an adjunct?

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Hey Theo

lost it sorry but the Journal is 'Phytochemistry' if an institution near you has it look through the index

I just sat down at Uni one day and started looking over each one for intereting articles

I photocopied it but lost that

I want a new copy when i go back to visit friends in perth. Also there is the article bout Distribution of alkaloids in Duboisia myoporides that shows that PNG and FN queensland strains solely have nicotine. I collected some up there but as fractal accidentally found out i wasnt far enough north - so he had plenty of time to talk with imaginary house guests :)

Im after a P incarnata!! - If you do a raid plz pull up lots of suckers and grow them for trades!

I know its easy this way but slower from seed.

Id rather get a strain that you think is Ok anyway

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Ok for people like me who don'y know which passionfruit vine p. incarnata is here's some pics:

http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=7315

and I'm quite sure I have seen them growing somewhere...

the flower is not much to go by since it looks the same as most passionfruit flowers, but the green fruit, seem to be the ones you can recognize them by...

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Just keep in mind that many passifloras contain cyanide in possibly dangerous quantities. P.incarnata is a low cyanide species.

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The passionflower in question was either a non-fruiting variety..are there any?

Or as tantra stated not self-pollinating.

I'd go to the new owners place and ask them for some suckers,but they would prolly know by now what was in the garden shed before I left

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You can get seed easily - its a permitted import

P incarnata is deciduous and has long pointed leaves

pasincdr.jpg

like P mollisima ( the banana passionfruit)

pasta01.jpg

Most specimens i have been shown as P incarnata were actually P caerulea, the rootstock blue passionfruit

passiflora.jpg

Passiflora_caerulea.gif

It has more lobed leaves - look at the ends of the leaf - but shares the suckering habit

[ 07. June 2004, 21:50: Message edited by: reville ]

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The deciduous ID is a good one. I walk past a vine every day that still has leaves under an inch or so of frost. So does P. Incarnata actually fruit? (coz otherwise no-one is going to bother grafting it onto rootstock).

Rev's recent post of the Ott paper on b-carbolines has jogged my thinking. If all MAOIs don't act the same, then I have simpler explanation for the shitty wired sensation I got from Passiflora tea. Namely, I may have simply overdone the harman and given myself serotonin syndrome. It certainly felt quite like a couple of times when I have had to give up the St John's wort after a week of twice-daily dosing, but this of course happened immediately.

Maybe we have an alternative here to Sceletium? It then comes down to whether one would rather risk oxalic acid or cyanide toxicity :) BTW, that was 25g of dried material which was too much, after going back to my notes.

Another thing I like about this plant is its symmetry - get wired on the leaves then chill out on the flowers. LOL, get in quick before the TGA starts busting pavlova makers!

[ 25. June 2004, 14:56: Message edited by: John_Barleycorn ]

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Rev the vine I had showedthe same leaf structure as P caerulea in the photy^ BUT the flowers had pink petals like the banana pasiflora with blue stamens like P caerulea was perrenial and never bore fruit.

Still potent IMHO whatever it is...and John a little cyanide won't hurt

for long

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well that just makes it more interesting :)

so what the chance of getting a pic of this mystery vine

also best grab some cuttings now as vigorous suckering vines have habit of being the first things to go in a garden renovation

[ 25. June 2004, 21:49: Message edited by: reville ]

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reville:

also best grab some cuttings now as vigorous suckering vines have habit of being the first things to go in a garden renovation

Another consideration is that I believe most Passiflora have a fairly limited life-span.

I notice a report on Erowid about someone experiencing an "orgasmic" state on Passiflora, although they attributed that to its MAOI properties whilst simultaneously doing DMT. It gets interestinger and interestinger!

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Yeah it had a rue-ish feel to it just less pronounced due to burning I guess then again I'm a sensitive guy and all

John I sent that balaclava and the black jumpsuit down :D

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Rev and T's investigation of Trib Terr seeds under blacklight prompted me to see whether the seeds could be obtained separately. Sure enough, MG via HHH allegedly do 'em as a powder. They seem to fluoresce more than an equivalent weight of Passiflora leaves, which is good news. Even better, no significant tannin, so it is much easier to get down a strong tea without the risk of hurling.

Initial impressions were that I was in for a trip, as my teeth started to tingle in the same way they do as a prelude to the shroom experience. However, 4g turned out simply to be a nice mood elevator. Drank a zillion beers and a glass of red without any noticeable ill effect of the MAOI. Pulse remained unchanged, dunno about blood pressure.

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4gms tribilis seed ext is a health food capsule sized dose so i wouldnt expect it to be reliably active .but when taking them regularly i would occasionally have interations at unexpected times.

was it 25gms some told me was just enough?

i met someone recently with a half cup of s rue seeds they had collected in the past year in the centre of sa.i was pleased to be given a t spoon full.they are slightly fater than what i've usually seen.from what i was told they are no easier to grow!

t s t .

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John_Barleycorn:

Sure enough, MG via HHH allegedly do 'em as a powder.

do u mean morning glory seeds?? and do they have an maoi effect?

aaron

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