apothecary Posted July 10, 2009 http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07...4.htm?site=news ACT police are warning users of the illegal drug ecstasy of a bad batch in circulation in the Territory.The tablets have been found to contain a dangerous mix of three chemicals, methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), benzylpiperazine (BZP) and Triflouromethylphenylpiperazine (TFMPP), which can lead to serious illness and death. The pills are described as green with a bat motif and a number were seized in two raids in May. ACT Policing Drug and Alcohol Policy coordinator Detective Senior Constable Mark Battye says they are concerned some of the tablets may still be in circulation. "We can't make it clear enough that when you're taking ecstasy tablets you're putting your life in your own hands," he said. "You never know what's inside the tablets, they're manufactured and supplied and dealt by criminals whose only motivation is money and greed." I wish I could disagree with DSC Battye. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neoshaman Posted July 10, 2009 "We can't make it clear enough that when you're taking ecstasy tablets you're putting your life in your own hands," he said. Yes thats right thanks to our stupid drug laws users are put at a great deal of risk the irony is that every police spokemsn from every state seems to fucking miss is IF IT WAS LEGAL THIS SHIT WOULD NOT BE IN IT WOULD BE PRODUCED UNDER STRICT STANDARDS AND DOSAGE AND EXACT CHEMICAL CONTENT WOULD BE KNOWN LETS ALL CONGRADULATE OUR GIOVERNMENTS ON WHAT THEIR HARM MAXIMISATION POLICIES HAVE ACHIEVED Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mac Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Yes thats right thanks to our stupid drug laws users are put at a great deal of risk the irony is that every police spokemsn from every state seems to fucking miss is IF IT WAS LEGAL THIS SHIT WOULD NOT BE IN IT WOULD BE PRODUCED UNDER STRICT STANDARDS AND DOSAGE AND EXACT CHEMICAL CONTENT WOULD BE KNOWN Eggxactly I caught another mention on the news about the US government legalizing & taxing pot to help dig them out of the financial crisis, it just gos to show Cold Hard Cash is the only thing that will make governments revise any drug policy's Money Talks Edited July 10, 2009 by mac Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neoshaman Posted July 10, 2009 Eggxactly I caught another mention on the news about the US government legalizing & taxing pot to help dig them out of the financial crisis, it just gos to show Cold Hard Cash is the only thing that will make governments revise any drug policy's Money Talks Money talks exactly I would be more then happy to pay a tax on it if it was made safer through legalisation lets see Cost to make tablets for large pharmecetical company say $4-$5 200% mark up $15 chemists profit on sale $5 government tax $10 per pill $30 for say a nice clean 125mg hit of adam now based on an approximation of 200,000 pills being sold each week $2,000,000 in tax colleced per week $104,000,000 in taxes per annum and thats just off X imagine if you threw in pot , sally , kratom IMO all fairly safe lacking in addictive qualities ( well all ceratinly far less addictive then tobacco ) you have the biggest boost just imagine how beneficial those funds could be to public health care etc etc etc etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gromit Posted July 10, 2009 Bad Batch Bat motif DSC Battye. Hmmm... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiral Posted July 10, 2009 Wiki link TFMPP acts as a 5-HT1B,[1] 5-HT2A, and 5-HT2C receptor agonist. TFMPP is rarely administered by itself, and there has been little research into it as a single drug. More commonly, TFMPP is co-administered with another piperazine derivative BZP, which acts as a serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine releasing agent,[2] in addition to being a 5-HT receptor agonist in its own right. Due to the serotonin agonist effects and increase in dopamine levels produced by the BZP/TFMPP combination, this mixture of drugs produces effects which crudely mimic the effects of MDMA ("ecstasy") in animals,[3] and so have been advertised as an "MDMA substitute" to consumers.[4]. In fact the effects of TFMPP are more similar to hallucinogens such as LSD or (more similarly) mescaline, although much weaker, with the maximal 5-HT2A agonist effect of TFMPP found to be only 40% compared to the strong hallucinogen DOM.[5] So it would be more accurate to describe the combination of BZP and TFMPP as being closer to a combination of a weak dose of LSD mixed with amphetamine rather than comparing it to MDMA. However research has shown that in addition to the effects on serotonin, the combination results in an unexpectedly large amount of dopamine release that far exceeds what one would expect from the DA releasing properties of each drug alone added together. This suggests a strong degree of synergy between the two drugs. [1] TFMPP has only mild effects when not combined with benzylpiperazine, and it produces aversive effects in animals rather than self-administration, which explains the decision not to permanently make TFMPP an illicit drug. TFMPP has also been previously reported as a metabolite of the analgesic antrafenine.[6] TFMPP shares some features with fenfluramine. The dosage commonly used when combined with BZP for "ecstasy-like effects" is between 30 and 100 mg, while higher doses of TFMPP alone cause mildly hallucinogenic effects at around 100–250mg; however, higher doses can cause a range of side effects including migraine headaches, muscle aches, nausea and vomiting, as well as a come-down syndrome characterised by insomnia, loss of appetite, and headache; these side effects tend to discourage use of TFMPP. [edit] One can only assume that it's being added to the pills to make the MDMA spin out more, a cutting agent if you will, because if these pills contain MDMA then why are using anything else in the pill other than to cut it...also the molecule picture on Wiki of this compound looks just like a lophora...coincidence maybe but still it does look like one. H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neoshaman Posted July 10, 2009 Bad BatchBat motif DSC Battye. Hmmm... heard the purple stars and white moons getting round sydney/ central coast have a similar make up know of someone who suffered servere body tremors for 3 days after taking the stars Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted July 10, 2009 Yeah we really don't need to go into the "fuck the government" every single time do we? This was posted more as a harm min./warning to people who might come in contact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
santiago Posted July 10, 2009 Yes thats right thanks to our stupid drug laws users are put at a great deal of risk the irony is that every police spokemsn from every state seems to fucking miss is IF IT WAS LEGAL THIS SHIT WOULD NOT BE IN IT WOULD BE PRODUCED UNDER STRICT STANDARDS AND DOSAGE AND EXACT CHEMICAL CONTENT WOULD BE KNOWN LETS ALL CONGRADULATE OUR GIOVERNMENTS ON WHAT THEIR HARM MAXIMISATION POLICIES HAVE ACHIEVED sure i can see your point but where do you draw the line, why stop at pills and pot, why not get heroin, ketamine, pcp and lsd from our government too, its called a pipe dream that never should and never will happen, let the little pill heads take a risk with their dodgy dealers.....unfortunately thats what life is about and why as a society we are governed by rules, like it or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neoshaman Posted July 10, 2009 Yeah we really don't need to go into the "fuck the government" every single time do we? This was posted more as a harm min./warning to people who might come in contact. True harm minimisation is getting the laws changed its all good to warn people who frequent forums like ours but what about the 10s of 1000's who don't ?????????? warning a couple of thousand people if that achieves very little i would personally rather see harm minimised for every person who touches these drugs not that it will happen in my life time but its something that we all should be passionate about of course there is going to be a reference to stupid legislation on these kind of threads the only reason you need to post this in the first place is due to the ridiculous laws that are currently in place that maximise harm to all users those who want to read my constant ranting on the subject should be free to do so just as others that are sick of it are more then free to skip over my posts it doesn't harm anyone or detract from the original post either way Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neoshaman Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) sure i can see your point but where do you draw the line, why stop at pills and pot, why not get heroin, ketamine, pcp and lsd from our government too, its called a pipe dream that never should and never will happen, let the little pill heads take a risk with their dodgy dealers.....unfortunately thats what life is about and why as a society we are governed by rules, like it or not. Actually MDMA is quite safe if used moderately and why stop at pills and pot because as I stated they are less addictive and dangerous then drugs our government lets retail stores with minimal restrictions sell the other things you mentioned can be quite dangerous even in moderation , society and rules can be changed they are not set in stone at one point a black man couldn't marry a white woman and you could be locked up for being gay should all the people that fought for those rights have just shut the fuck up and done nothing drug users are treated as socila out casts and its wrong that because we choose to do things other then alcohol we are singled out and that everything we work for can be taken away from us I'm going to stop there because I seem to be derailing apoth's thread and that was never the intention Posts like this regarding harm minmisation more then justify my stance. Its nice to know that you think organised crime as oppose to our government is better off recieving these funds and that you would rather see needless deaths then lobby for change Edited July 10, 2009 by neoshaman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted July 10, 2009 I don't disagree with you neoshaman, but let's be realistic here: ranting on this forum in threads like this will do very little if anything at all to change the situation. Especially considering everyone here (pretty much) holds the same view. If you really are that angry you should try and direct it somewhere constructive such as lobbying to get RaveSafe to parties, or promoting/supporting events like EGA or whatever. Maybe you are skeptical about these actions, I was as well until last year I discovered my queries to the Greens party NSW about sniffer dogs in the state almost had the law revoked due to being expired! So, you never know what your anger can achieve in such situations...but your anger directed here is unfortunately predictably going to do little/nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neoshaman Posted July 10, 2009 I don't disagree with you neoshaman, but let's be realistic here: ranting on this forum in threads like this will do very little if anything at all to change the situation. Especially considering everyone here (pretty much) holds the same view. If you really are that angry you should try and direct it somewhere constructive such as lobbying to get RaveSafe to parties, or promoting/supporting events like EGA or whatever. Maybe you are skeptical about these actions, I was as well until last year I discovered my queries to the Greens party NSW about sniffer dogs in the state almost had the law revoked due to being expired! So, you never know what your anger can achieve in such situations...but your anger directed here is unfortunately predictably going to do little/nothing. agreed apoth i guess i'm trying to encourage others to do what I'm already doing lobby ing parliment / politicians trying to encourage ex police and maybe current police to join LEAP supporting lobby groups who already appeal to this cause maybe I go about it the wrong way sometimes but i assure you I'm quite involved in these type of things externally from this board and trhis is to some degree why I'm so passionate on the topic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted July 10, 2009 so traditionally it is pills that contain adulterated material and sometimes blotters but does that make anybody immune just because they can source shards and licky? some people might be pretty skillful at using test kits, and visual/other identification, and if that's you then good on ya for knowing your shit.... however, do we all agree that it's not JUST pill users who risk ingesting nasty chems? i sometimes wonder if it makes sense to get off the e train altogether and use shitty cut gas simply because it probably is what it is and not something more dangerous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Yeah right, 'cos shitty cut gas never contains dangerous byproducts like iodoephedrine? Yes TI, I can only speak for myself but I definitely agree it's not just pill users in this issue. Cigarette smokers (pesticides, nitrates, ammonia, etc), pot smokers (pesticides, hormones, etc), LSD heads (bromo-dragonfly anyone?), cocaine freaks (who knows, heaps of shit used as adulterants here), and smackies (fentanyl or other synthetic opiates etc) will all be exposed to some risk along the lines of adulterants! We can and should be rightfully angry at the government for putting us in this situation, but in the mean-time all we can do is try to spread information wherever it pops up to try and minimise those risks. The goal for me isn't to say "this is dangerous, never do it again" (unless you are asking for my personal advice! in which case I will tell you "what I would do" or "my opinion is"), the goal for me is just to say here is the info: the risks are apparent, accept or deny is up to you. Edited July 10, 2009 by apothecary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted July 10, 2009 Bad BatchBat motif DSC Battye. Hmmm... LOL , thanks a lot for this one, I was laughing by my own this morning at work True harm minimisation is getting the laws changed its all good to warn people who frequent forums like ours but what about the 10s of 1000's who don't ?????????? I disagree, even many who do read forums, even this one which is really more sensible and serious than the lot, are not really safer as many choose to live and act irresponsibly or risky despite the consultance and warnings from the substances themselves. But yeah, legalisation af course eliminates the problems from the legal status, so only when legal we can be informed about them so that even idiots can have it spelled to them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Presidente Hillbillios Posted July 12, 2009 heard the purple stars and white moons getting round sydney/ central coast have a similar make up know of someone who suffered servere body tremors for 3 days after taking the stars hey guys, i have heard the same about white moons, plus there is a batch of clear O size caps that are producing effects that are just as bad.. be careful Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted July 12, 2009 This really is Battye This is why I only use botanicals... nobody can lace my cacti that I grew Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lofty86 Posted July 12, 2009 This really is Battye This is why I only use botanicals... nobody can lace my cacti that I grew I agree its much safer to eat shit you grow in your own yard, i remember a few years ago i copped a little green pill with chinese symbols made me throw up my stomach lining, over heat, and i had blinking sight, kinda hard to explain i wasnt blinking my eyes but my sight was blinking in and out rapidly (no i wasnt under a strobe light LOL) put me off scoring unknown substances pressed by godknows who sold by 18 year old clubrats who dont give a fuck about your safty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted July 13, 2009 hey guys, i have heard the same about white moons, plus there is a batch of clear O size caps that are producing effects that are just as bad..be careful Thanks Hillbilly, good info. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neoshaman Posted July 13, 2009 hey guys, i have heard the same about white moons, plus there is a batch of clear O size caps that are producing effects that are just as bad..be careful yeah i've heard about those so called clear caps my guess is they are the left overs or crushed pills from the moons dam what ever happened to the days of getting 100mg of crystal in a capsule that was what it was meant to be Its sad that the government doesn't see benefits of legalisation but its much sadder that the people making this crap are so fucking greedy they put the $$ they can make before the health of the people who use what they sell if anyone wants a reason to quit depriving these fucking dogs of income should be a good start although I have to say a little reaserch doesn't hurt as both those pills are listed on pillreports.com as being highly adultrated Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixSon Posted July 14, 2009 research helps, but ive noticed on the sunnycoast if there is quality pill around, it will take a ccouple of weeks before a imitation comes out probally from the same press, and it contains shite and looks exactly the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiral Posted July 14, 2009 Would it be fair to say that quality pills are imports, but dangerous, heavily cut, crappy copy cats are locally produced. My theory for this being pure greed and a lack of the correct precursors locally to make safe, quality X. I can honestly say in the time I was in Europe all bar one time the X was absolutely mind blowing. The competition to produce a cleaner purer product is where it's at over there, but here it's not easy to make correctly so it's slapped together with dangerous admixtures and whacked out on the street asap, therefore the motive is not to produce the best quality drug but simply to cash in quickly and spend big on cars and boats etc. Unfortunately the user has no idea what is locally produced or which are imports, it's beginning to become like a game of Russian Roulette. H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neoshaman Posted July 14, 2009 Would it be fair to say that quality pills are imports, but dangerous, heavily cut, crappy copy cats are locally produced. My theory for this being pure greed and a lack of the correct precursors locally to make safe, quality X. I can honestly say in the time I was in Europe all bar one time the X was absolutely mind blowing. The competition to produce a cleaner purer product is where it's at over there, but here it's not easy to make correctly so it's slapped together with dangerous admixtures and whacked out on the street asap, therefore the motive is not to produce the best quality drug but simply to cash in quickly and spend big on cars and boats etc. Unfortunately the user has no idea what is locally produced or which are imports, it's beginning to become like a game of Russian Roulette.H. Down on the Central Coast I actaully saw a test come up for pure clean unadultarted MDMA/MDEA first Ihave ssen in years I don't get involved withh it personally but I have a lot of friends who do and I think its great someone is producing some high quality clean products judging by the quality of the print though they were locals Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted July 14, 2009 Yeah I don't think the importers have any meaningful monopoly on purity, or vice versa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites