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santiago

$10 min eftpos

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Really i should ask more shop owners but every time i do i just get some blank eyed shop assistant who blabs ' im sorry thats the policy'.

First of all i am a mild mannered shopper who really likes to use eftpos, i find it easier than losing coins down the side of seats and having to account for notes when with one card you can just swipe and pay, no human error.

What is really starting to get me pissed off is in this day and age where eftpos is 'your own cash', the system has been around for 18 years and that companies at the moment more than ever need your money time and time again your faced with $10 minimum purchase. I find this complete bullshit. For example i went to BP petrol station to buy over priced lunch one day, 'no sorry sir $10 minimum purchase on eftpos' the shop assistant gruffed. No probs i said ill go elsewhere. So i drove literally 2 minutes up the road to another BP. My $6 purchase was accepted.

This is just one example. Same multinational company within hundreds of metres apart with differing cash policies. Im just so pissed off. Some places charge an extra 50 cents if you use under $10 eftpos which is acceptable but still a rort. Some places have a minimum $5 policy, some places dont. The range of companies are from large to small. Where is the consistancy and what is the law?

Personally it is starting to get to me and the next shop i go to and they deny me the chance to buy a pie and coke and friggin give them my hard earned money, time and choice and when i pull out my card and they say 'sorry $10 minimum' i think i will explode. Number one im spending my money at your fucking shop. Number two if you are willing to use eftpos as a means to gather customers money then if it costs you 50 cents loss per eftpos transaction (if thats actually the case) then fucking wear it you moron. Number three its fucking 2009 and eftos whether its 10 cents or 10 million is my fucking right as a spender fucking fucking fucking.

I just dont get it, there is no consistancy from shop to shop, situation to situation in regards to this matter. Im hoping somebody who is a shop owner reads this and sheds some light on this 'rip off'.

Put it this way, if i want to buy something and your employee or you says 'sorry sir $10 minimum eftpos' i as one lone individual am going to first of all NOT SPEND anything at your shop. I think it is a deliberate marketing strategy aimed at gullible individuals to make them buy 1 more bottle of coke or a packet of chewies etc etc cos most people are sheep and will do so just to get over the $10 mark. DONT DO IT.

I have had enough. Tomorrow i am going to that shop that denied me that $6.95 purchase today with all my filthy 5 cent coins and im going to pour them on the counter and watch you count them. I will have the last laugh hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

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My local post office has a $10.00 minumum...depending on which cashier serves you that is :huh: ...I mean it's absurd that one woman one day charges me my $4.40 to post some seeds etc out, and 2 days later in the same post office a cold hearted bitch of a woman says nope 10 dollar minimum sir...and refuse's to budge on the sale...it's all a bit silly really but that 5cent thang should piss a few off...particularly if you make them count it out...make sure the coins are all greasy and dirty too...that should sort em out... :wink:

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I loathe people who use eftpos for small purchases. It makes check out waiting times so much longer and is such a waste of time for those who queue and for the staff [who don't work for free].

As for shop owners who set limits, I think that's only fair enough. They have to pay for YOUR convenience [eftpos is not free!] so it's only fair enough that they try and recover some of that cost or set a minimum. If they recover cost that means everyone else [including those people who have cash and don't waste time and resources] have to pay part of those costs. ie *I* pay part of your eftpos costs, so now it's personal! :P

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I loathe people who use eftpos for small purchases. It makes check out waiting times so much longer and is such a waste of time for those who queue and for the staff [who don't work for free].

As for shop owners who set limits, I think that's only fair enough. They have to pay for YOUR convenience [eftpos is not free!] so it's only fair enough that they try and recover some of that cost or set a minimum. If they recover cost that means everyone else [including those people who have cash and don't waste time and resources] have to pay part of those costs. ie *I* pay part of your eftpos costs, so now it's personal! :P

No no no Torsten, for a start what do you consider to be a small purchase. Who is to say a small purchase to you is a small purchase to me. Also has that theory of the customer is always right officially died. $6.95 for example is not a small amount to me. I stinking well worked just to survive in this current day age for 20 minutes just to be denied the opportunity to buy the goods and services i want by a eftpos $10 minimum shop to spend my $6.95.

So what is the cost to a shop for my $6.95 eftpos purchase. What you are really saying is that the little man does not count these days really we are only concerned about the bigger spender...right.

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I dunno I think the banks are trying to corner people and in particular shoppers into using plastic....particularly when they can attract fees of up to $2 for not using an ATM that is your banks, just to get $20 out so you can use cash at the store that has a $10 minimum...see what I mean it's like you are forced to do what they want...personally I hate carrying cash too...I have gotten used to not using it... being a traveler for so long you become very accustomed to plastic and the fact that it can be replaced rather quickly...large amounts of cash being carried by people is long gone...so why not allow people say a 5 minimum at least...the $10.00 limit is particularly frustrating...and the being slower at the checkout thing...mmmm I'm pretty quick at the swipe and punch pin jobby...better than fumbling for coins and paper etc...My tobacconist is rather cheeky though and I have had stern words with them about this...they charge each sale regardless of size, 40cents to use eftpos...I told him that's bang out of order...why should I pay for the phonecall...and what makes you so special that you feel you are the only store in this city that has the right to do that...cheeky git.

H.

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LOL Yeah you might just as well say you "loathe" people that use cash for small purchases, taking up all the time in the queue, using that official currency in such a non-profligate way, that "you" have paid for!

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Yea thats a crock of shit the cash being faster than card, i worked at a joint not too long ago and for a few years at that that only took credit card and eftpos, we were stunningly quick, there was no error human or customer, banking was easy peasy no 45 cents here or $11 dollars there to recover and for every dinosour customer who cried cash there was 30 more that did not blink an eyelid. Get with it, cash is an outdated system.

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No no no Torsten, for a start what do you consider to be a small purchase. Who is to say a small purchase to you is a small purchase to me.

It doesn't matter what YOU think the size of the purcahse is. It matters what the size of the purchase is in relation to the bank fees charged. eg, most BP service stations are franchises, which means someone like your mum or dad owns it. They have to live from what they sell. Depending on what set up they have with the bank they might be on a treansaction plus volume charge or just a volume charge. if the former, then there is a certain cost associated with each transaction. So for a $6 sandwich they might be looking at $2 profit, of which they might lose 10 or 20 cents, ie 5-10%.

But that's not the worst part. A cash transaction takes about 10-20 seconds. An EFT transaction takes 20-40 seconds minimum. ie the staff costs for your EFT transaction are twice as high as for a cash transaction. And bottom line is NOTHING is free, so if you use up more staff time then someone has to pay for that.

Also has that theory of the customer is always right officially died.

Customers are often arrogant morons. I've worked in retail and hospitality and had to get out of it because it was driving me nuts. The only reason why I can tolerate running SAB is because you don't have to deal with customers much online and for the most part we seem to have a smarter than average customer base .

If customers are always right, why do at least 10% of them get their own address wrong when placing online orders? :BANGHEAD2:

That theory is completely outdated and irrelevant. I think customers should [and have a right to] expect competence and friendliness from staff, but that's about it. The whole concept that staff need to be polite and at service to a complete fuckwit customer has no place in our society.

I fail to see how 'the customer is always right' has anythign to do with paying by EFT though. I mean, would you insist on paying by cheque even if there is a sign that says 'no cheques accepted'? That's essentially what you are saying.

$6.95 for example is not a small amount to me. I stinking well worked just to survive in this current day age for 20 minutes just to be denied the opportunity to buy the goods and services i want by a eftpos $10 minimum shop to spend my $6.95.

Why not go to shops that take your

So what is the cost to a shop for my $6.95 eftpos purchase.

Don't know. I can find out. The cost would be both financial instritution fees, PLUS staff costs. I would think the latter is more significant. At about 30 cents per minute you can see that a business can save quite a bit of money by eliminating 50% of wasted staff time. ie, your EFTPOS transaction costs at least an extra 10 cents, which is another 5 % of your sandwich. I am sure if they could afford to give 5% discount then they'd do it rather than waste it on staff costs.

Bottom line is that a small transaction costs the business more than a large transaction. These costs need to be paid by everyone, ie they drive prices up. I am old enough to remember supermarket checkouts without EFT and it's annoyed me ever since.

What you are really saying is that the little man does not count these days really we are only concerned about the bigger spender...right.

Absolutely not what I am saying. I personally find EFTPOS for larger amounts just as annoying, but I can see the customer security purpose in it rather than just being a customer convenience. Also, if a rich guy pays for his fanta by eftpos I get just as shitty as if a poor guy does it.

I think you need to have a look at why the shops do it and also get off your high horse in regards to the shops owing you something. In many of these places the person who's money you re talking about is no different than your family, your neighbours and your friends. In fact, are you sure no one in your family and friends owns a service station or small shop?

I do agree with you though that such limits should be clearly displayed and should be adhered to. And for national companies there should be consistency. Mind you, like I said, many are franchises [incl many post offices these days].

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Customers are often arrogant morons.

Customers are the only reason businesses are in business.

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Yea thats a crock of shit the cash being faster than card, i worked at a joint not too long ago and for a few years at that that only took credit card and eftpos, we were stunningly quick, there was no error human or customer, banking was easy peasy no 45 cents here or $11 dollars there to recover and for every dinosour customer who cried cash there was 30 more that did not blink an eyelid. Get with it, cash is an outdated system.

How is that a comparison if your place only took cards and no cash?

It's a business fact that cards take more time and cost more. Retail bodies have done a huge amount of research into this. There is only ONE good reason for running a business primarily/solely on cards and that is to prevent theft [by staff].

cash will never be outdated. Don't forget that even in the most developed countries cash still accounts for the largest part of the retail economy and there are parts that simply can't be replaced by cards.

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with eft they have to wait for it to be approved. unless there is tricky change or the person takes a long time to pull out their money, cash is quicker.

i like cash, the shrapnel is a bit annoying but i always get rid of it eventually... alternatively you can start a jar and eventually just bank it all. asshole banks try to rob you when you make too many eft transactions or atm withdrawals in a month so fuck em, i just withdraw several hundred each time.

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Businesses are the only reason customers are in custom. :huh::huh:

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I loathe people who use eftpos for small purchases. It makes check out waiting times so much longer and is such a waste of time for those who queue and for the staff [who don't work for free].

I'm assuming that is like a credit card! People in America are terrible about this! I carry cash and only cash!

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Customers are the only reason businesses are in business.

You have a very limited view of the world it seems.

My retail business makes me no money. It makes just enough to pay one staff member who is the person who processes your orders and maintains the nursery. I could shut SAB down overnight and it would make no difference to me. So why do I bother? I started it because there was a need for it and initially I enjoyed it. That only lasted a few years. I do like the idea of job security though, so I am basically keeping the business in place in case I ever find myself in the situation that I need a job. In the meantime someone else is doing that job and I just keep an eye on things.

I'll quite happily tell annoying or stupid customers to shop elsewhere as I have no need or desire for the business to grow. I do still very much enjoy supplying special plants to special people, but let's just say that getting your address right would be the very least I would expect from someone I would like to be my customer. I do actually quite regularly send annoying customers to Medicine Garden ;)

We even left a 'road to nursery is impassable' notice up for several years to discourage people from popping into the nursery, and our opening times are definitely not customer friendly.

My partner has worked in a restaurant that was a labour of love. because everyone loved the food it was easy for the management to be selective - not by financial status, but by culinary status.

Another family member runs a business simply because he wants to provide the locals an alternative to a bully competitor. He hasn't made any money in it and is unlikely to anytime soon, but he is having a ball regardless. It's keeping him out of retirement.

So yeah, people have businesses for all sorts of reasons. Having a business does not mean you have to put up with every tom, dick and harriette that has an opinion but no substance to match it.

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How is that a comparison if your place only took cards and no cash?

It's a business fact that cards take more time and cost more. Retail bodies have done a huge amount of research into this. There is only ONE good reason for running a business primarily/solely on cards and that is to prevent theft [by staff].

cash will never be outdated. Don't forget that even in the most developed countries cash still accounts for the largest part of the retail economy and there are parts that simply can't be replaced by cards.

The comparison lies in the quickness of transaction. There is absolutely minimal difference in speed of transaction in regards to eftpos and cash, the only difference lies in the shops electronic funds transfer point of sale machine, yes it is true some can take 10 or so seconds but others take 2 seconds or less, i really dont find employee costs relevant because you may as well eliminate cigarette smoking employees from any work place for example only as generally they spend 5 minutes per hour huffing their precious cargo, also i think once apon a time i calculated i made a fair bit of money shitting every year and pissing in the toilets at my workplace using company water and toilet paper and getting paid for it.

Its not only staff error to prevent theft via cash it alsp prevent robbery. Of course cash will never be outdated, how will people pay for a $50 bag with their dealer. However in a world where the card whether or not its credit card or eftpos is becoming increasingly reliant it is simply the same as your own money so why should it be resticted in any way.

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The comparison lies in the quickness of transaction. There is absolutely minimal difference in speed of transaction in regards to eftpos and cash

That is not how business cost their transaction expenses.

Why don't you got to Coles or Woolies and have a look. They have quite fast system, yet you can see the difference in transaction speed quite easily.

i really dont find employee costs relevant because you may as well eliminate cigarette smoking employees from any work place for example

Many business do. A smoker has no right to any more breaks than a non-smoker and this is enforced in a lot of businesses now.

Its not only staff error to prevent theft via cash it alsp prevent robbery.

There are other ways to prevent robbery.

However in a world where the card whether or not its credit card or eftpos is becoming increasingly reliant it is simply the same as your own money so why should it be resticted in any way.

You don't seem to grasp that paying by EFT involves a third party. This third party gets money for the service they provide. Just like many businesses now charge a 1-3% credit card surcharge, it is only fair enough that EFT transactions are based on a 'user pays' system.

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However in a world where the card whether or not its credit card or eftpos is becoming increasingly reliant it is simply the same as your own money so why should it be resticted in any way.

You don't seem to grasp that paying by EFT involves a third party. This third party gets money for the service they provide. Just like many businesses now charge a 1-3% credit card surcharge, it is only fair enough that EFT transactions are based on a 'user pays' system.

But shouldnt the amount of customers that come in the door outweigh the negative impact of a 50 cent loss per eftpos transaction. Any small shop worth while opening their doors should at least have a 100% markup, in regards to many successful shops a 300% markup is not uncommon so surely a eftpos minimal loss is to be expected. I also pay a third party for the use of my card so what makes 'YOU' and by you i dont mean you torsten personally but a shop owner any different and any more privileged than me.

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But isn't there a 3rd party that getsa cut in cash transactions too? Ah fuc* it, I give up, I might as well be invisible.

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But shouldnt the amount of customers that come in the door outweigh the negative impact of a 50 cent loss per eftpos transaction.

The numbers probably don't add up whcih is why shops ipose the limit. I am sure they do the limit for a reason not just arbitrarily.

Any small shop worth while opening their doors should at least have a 100% markup, in regards to many successful shops a 300% markup is not uncommon

HUH? In all my years I've only ever come across 2 businesses that worked on 300%. Many businesses work on 60-100%. Most retail shops that simply resell goods use about 40-60%. However, food businesses usually only have 40%.

so surely a eftpos minimal loss is to be expected.

I have no idea what mark up servos work on.

I also pay a third party for the use of my card so what makes 'YOU' and by you i dont mean you torsten personally but a shop owner any different and any more privileged than me.

huh? I don't think I understand. Just because you are willing to pay for your transaction doesn't mean a shop has calculated that into their costs.

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But isn't there a 3rd party that getsa cut in cash transactions too? Ah fuc* it, I give up, I might as well be invisible.

I did like your post before this one ;)

Banks usually give a few free transactions, so taking your money out weekly [if you get paid into your account] will not cost anything. I lived on 100% cash for many years and never paid any bank fees [except for everyone else's as I had to subsidise all EFT transactions with my purchases].

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So in reality there is no consitancy in shopkeeping, any shop selling anything can just justify any percentage they take and any limit they set in regards to eftpos, there is no law to keep this particular selling point consistant and unfortunatelely ill just have to bite my tounge and wear it. I knew i would have to anyway but i enjoyed your viewpoint Torsten.

Will i have the energy tomorrow to hand over my scungy 5 cent pieces and take pix to post. I hope so :lol:

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So in reality there is no consitancy in shopkeeping, any shop selling anything can just justify any percentage they take and any limit they set in regards to eftpos, there is no law to keep this particular selling point consistant

I think there are probably laws about signage to indicate extra charges.

Essentially shops can charge whatever they want and it is the customer who decides which shops get to survive and which don't.

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Cool thats all i needed to hear, i cant go into a shop and spend real money if i want to unless i have at least $10 to spend.

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any service station or coles/woolworths around here (melbourne), it takes less than 5 seconds after you key in your PIN for the transaction to go through...it takes longer for the customer to count out their cash and for the cashiers to count it, most of the time...then they put they cash in the register, pause for a bit while they do some mental calculations and ask "do you have the 10c?" and so the customer fishes around in their wallet for change they don't have :) then the old-school cashiers (who do their job properly, i assume) count out the change from biggest to smallest notes/coins. at the big supermarkets, you've already swiped your card while they're scanning. it makes no difference. it only takes longer when people sign for credit...and all those stores now, you can use a PIN for credit.

are those $2 ATM transaction fees justified? i seem to be paying for those a lot.

please offload your 5c's...just for our (my) amusement. i waited for 5 minutes at coles last night while these two girls paid for a pack of smokes in change and the cashier twice forgot how much she counted and started over. was pretty funny

santiago...i think you may have bigger issues if this makes you so irate :wink:

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But isn't there a 3rd party that getsa cut in cash transactions too? Ah fuc* it, I give up, I might as well be invisible.

ROFLMAO....nice one Thelema...I just spat coffee all over my keyboard... :P ...simple answer to all this is to lower the minimum to $5.00...that is not going to have any impact on these stores and the third party cost and everyone can be happy...most supermarkets I see have always had a "cash only" aisle as well so there are always options to take your money off you...it's not like they don't want it. Those big chain convienience stores and BP's etc do have extremely marked up goods and are purely there to make money and sell items on the go, as fast as possible to consumers...so it does not make sense that they use a $10 minimum when $5 is ideal...comparing those types of franchise's to small town restaurants and alternative lifestyle nurseries is somewhat lop sided...that model fits in better with small fruit and veg stores and Asian grocery stores where it's all cash and that's all there is too it.

H.

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