relationships and the good/bad decisions we make...love is blind...?

[Pelinster]

Thanks for restoring the thread. I actually missed everything from my post to when it was edited and was a little disappointed.

I can definitely relate to some of what you are saying Hunab. Like I said, I too have only been single for a very small percentage of my adult life.

The thread title caught my eye straight away, when I first saw it. I too think a lot about love and the concept of biology vs spirituality. As in - am I just fulfilling some pathetic instinct (monkey theory? ), or is there a higher purpose to love. When I consider my love for life, the universe, and all things beautiful - I can't help but think that love is so much more than just 'reproducing' and even the act of reproducing itself could be considered more of an act of creation than a survival instinct - especially if you also believe that we are not the sum of our material parts, that the bodies we inhabit are no more a representation of who we really are than the building we are born in. Sure our biology has an instinct to reproduce, to pass on the information so that it may be eternal - but as a self aware being, I hold in a much higher regard the act of creation. I would rather create something that transcended the momentum of that information - and did the complete opposite. That is how I see myself at times..

I have been reflecting upon my relationships quite a lot since being single again, and something that I now recognise is that I actually used each of my long term partners as a kind of launching platform - for my own personal development.

I have a pattern..

It goes something like this - I identify someone that I have established would be within a certain range of success for getting involved with me on a deeper level (I have a fear of rejection that prevents me going in completely cold). I think there is a relationship between the kinds of people who give out that signal freely and the next step in my pattern - which is to identify any flaws, and consider those flaws, almost at first to rationalise why I shouldn't get involved, but eventually I always decide that each of those flaws are actually great development opportunities - for this other person. In other words, I then see myself as this great improver of people (how empowering!). I will reward this person for their attentions towards me by developing them! - I end up being more concerned with an ideal vision for this other person than would for one myself!

Don't get me wrong. I am not rationalising each of these steps as I live them.. The logic has only been discovered by reflection.

Now, once the honeymoon period is over - the relationship usually goes like this --> I try to influence. If I succeed, I reward with a stronger level of commitment. If I fail, I make a personal sacrifice (I give in to the element and try to accept it as part of my new life - all whilst deep down resenting that choice). Each sacrifice builds to this well of resentment deep within me.

Now here is the irony. Guess what are the most resounding elements I find that I can not change in this other person? and these elements just so happen to be the deal breakers. These elements at the end of the road are the straws that will break the camels back. If I can't change these most important elements - the scales will tip so far that my commitment level will be overpowered by the level of pooling resentment, and I will leave..

These elements at that time, which I see now are actually the things I most want to change about myself!

Now the irony doesn't end there. Each time I have 'walked away' from one of these relationships, I have simultaneously overcome these elements in my own life! The person becomes a symbol of those things which I want to change most about myself, and as I walk away from that person, I walk away from those elements. I imagine this is an awful experience for the other person. Because I never could have changed those elements in them. It was a hopeless cause - I don't imagine I could ever successfully influence and develop others in an area I myself require development. It is hypocritical and the emotional involvement destroys any chance at rationality, causing the issue to get distorted and turning it instead into a venting session for any emotional resentment both parties have stored away..

Of course, knowing this I would never willingly enter into a relationship like this again, it would be very callous and cruel for someone to willingly do this to somebody else they cared about. Set them up to fail, simply to become a symbol - to enable another person's development..

Wow, big post..

Anyway, as you could imagine. I am so sick of this ego centric attitude and environment in my love life. Realising the truth now makes me feel sick inside. How horrible.. I am practically just hooking up with my own ego!

I would love to actually connect with someone who is uniquely different from myself, and to appreciate them for who they are. Maybe then come together in some beautiful manner yet maintaining individuality. That I think would not only be quite interesting to experience, but also another great way to keep the ego in check.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Pelinster

[Chiral]

It goes something like this - I identify someone that I have established would be within a certain range of success for getting involved with me on a deeper level (I have a fear of rejection that prevents me going in completely cold). I think there is a relationship between the kinds of people who give out that signal freely and the next step in my pattern - which is to identify any flaws, and consider those flaws, almost at first to rationalise why I shouldn't get involved, but eventually I always decide that each of those flaws are actually great development opportunities - for this other person. In other words, I then see myself as this great improver of people (how empowering!). I will reward this person for their attentions towards me by developing them! - I end up being more concerned with an ideal vision for this other person than would for one myself!

mmm interesting...could you perhaps elaborate on one of the things you like to try and change...?

Don't get me wrong. I am not rationalising each of these steps as I live them.. The logic has only been discovered by reflection.

wow up until I read this I was thinking you where premeditating these moves...but you say you don't realise you are doing them till after the relationship in hindsight...

You certainly are a little hard on yourself and appear to analyse your intentions and motives quite heavily...if I had been using your technique I'm sure I would not have followed the path I have..I fall head first blindly and then don't see the issues till my blindfold melts off after some time. Some say being with a person typically opposite your personality is becoming...I have a hard time understanding this philosophy as it would appear that all my relationships have been opposites and it has been nothing but hardwork and for the most ...well didn't feel right.

I have met people in the past that the chemistry is bang on straight away...but it seems that to cement this meeting and make it into something more requires a very quick mind and no procrastination...usually I meet these people at the completely wrong period of time in my life and I can't give them the energy they require..that has happened to me so many times it's not funny...it's like I make a decision and just as I'm taking that fork in the road out of the corner of my is the perfect opportunity but I am committed to the road and can't take the other road as it's too late....frustrating to say the least...one girl in particular I have come into contact with her 3 times in my life and at each occasion I have just committed to another relationship...I have never seen her when I'm single...at the 3rd encounter I think she gave up as it was so frustrating to try and find each other at the right times.

H.

[Pelinster]

mmm interesting...could you perhaps elaborate on one of the things you like to try and change...?

O.k. here are the main ones from 3 long relationships:

Self Esteem - Learning to love thy self.

Escapism & Addiction - No longer seeking to escape from reality, from myself.

Emotional Maturity - Taking responsibility for my own feelings.

Self Discipline - being neat, organised. Being consistent. Making structured choices, having a vision and sticking to it.

Productivity - not being lazy. Staying productive. Earning rest. Working hard and committing to my job.

Health & Fitness - Eating the right foods, exercising regularly. Making the fundamental choice to be healthy.

Balance - doing things in moderation. Exercising temperance..

At one point in time each of these would have been not a statement about myself, but someone else. As in, "<insert partner's name> needs to learn to take responsibility for her own emotions", etc..

There is a flaw to developing in this way. It is purely reactive. If I had the sense I have now, I wouldn't have had to go through all of that to achieve those things. I would have used my creative will to drive the tension that would have pushed me to change each of those elements. Instead I have allowed myself to play the 'victim' of circumstances.. but I don't blame myself for that - the society we live in is reactive by majority and our educational system also teaches us to behave that way.

..usually I meet these people at the completely wrong period of time in my life and I can't give them the energy they require..that has happened to me so many times it's not funny...it's like I make a decision and just as I'm taking that fork in the road out of the corner of my is the perfect opportunity but I am committed to the road and can't take the other road as it's too late....frustrating to say the least...one girl in particular I have come into contact with her 3 times in my life and at each occasion I have just committed to another relationship...I have never seen her when I'm single...at the 3rd encounter I think she gave up as it was so frustrating to try and find each other at the right times.

H.

That's really sad man.. I feel sorry for you.. Sometimes life feels like it's trying to teach you one lesson, and one lesson only I feel - and that is that you can't have what you truly want. I feel that mantra on my back all of the time, and have let it lead me for many years. The greatest obstacle I have had to overcome is simply learning that I can have what I want. As I said above, we are taught this from a very young age - "but I want the Megatron toy so bad! Please Mum!" .. "Well, you can't always have what you want son. Sooner or later, you are going to learn that".

Edited June 14, 2009 by Pelinster

[devance]

All I know is that women around 30+ have a style that has with too much watching TV as if every thing comes out like: my adultery that shows I am unhappy so show some concern.

A TV Women talk show host who are are the strong sister types because they are lesbians and the llegal law takes the place of a natural healing process.

What wreaks a marriage is that Women are imaginary and when have a affair tell you.

[rahli]

I think it was Jenny Macklin, the shadow mister for families at the time that stated "Marrage is not a love affair. It is an agreement between two people to raise a loving family".

I can relate to this statement as this is the reason my wife and I got married, because we planned to have children and felt that marrage was a solid base from which to raise a family.

There are many reasons that couples form relationships but I feel it wise to include this ideology (not necessarily the joining in marrage) when children (ie families), are involved.

Good luck to you and your family Hanub Ku. I hope you can work things out for the long run.

Edited June 14, 2009 by rahli

[hutch]

I have had 3 major relationships, and haven't spent a lot of my adult life single. I am in a headspace at the moment where I am thinking - 'do I really need a girlfriend'. I notice that I have this instinct where I subconsciously assess just about every women as a potential partner and I was determined to turn it off. I feel it wasn't going to do me any good, on any level, even if my goal was to find a partner. I found the way to turn it off. You set a vision for yourself. A vision you create of your future. The ideal future. In that vision, I do see a family. Only there are a lot of specifics to that family. These specifics instantly rule out a very large percentage of the population, so now I don't assess just 'anyone' as a potential partner. Sounds simple but it was a huge revelation for me.

Something else I notice now, when I look around me - is I have a lot of work to do before I am anywhere near that vision. I can do a lot of that work on my own. So now I have all the time in the world. The closer I get to building that vision, the more I will attract the kinds of people who fit the criteria that matches that vision anyway.

Very Very Wise! but I think it would take a very strong willed person to be able to stick with it so good luck to you. I do love your vision though! I think most people are shit scared of being alone. I know I would be, but in a way I think I would like it. It all seems like a contradiction in my own mind.

Cheers

Hutch