I don'tknow how to put into words

[Chiral]

I don't want to get sidetracked but.. What makes everyone so sure that these entities are "divine"? Assuming that they are real..

"SATAN himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness" (II Cor. 11:14)

Good question...speaking from my experiences I have not encountered any malevolent beings...but it's almost impossible to say when you are in brain overload...just noticing them and staying in contact or focus is hard enough let alone knowing what scripts they read... I would say that on the odd occasion that DMT can be somewhat dark...the overal feel is slightly sinister, i have always noticed this from day one and after some 40+ experiences I still say the same thing.

What I will say is that in my basic sleep dreams i have definitely encountered sinister or malevolent entities that have scared the shit out of me and I mean scare big time...decloaking humans with nothing but destruction and in the business of creating a hell in all humans mindset or some sort of trickery to brainwash us whilst they go about their business...these are my dreams and interpretations only...my psychedelic encounters are never like that except for one time....and I'd like to explain this one as I found it intruiging.

I at one time had access to some liquid and messed around with various dose levels over periods of weeks and months....one time I decided to just do a half dose and see what went on.....the trip was so evil and dark it was like watching the end of the world..I saw imagery of Hitler, swastika's, fires , explosions, atomic bombs, black and Grey monster type beings that had sharp spiny arms and teeth...the whole trip from start to end of which was about 5 hrs was completely evil....almost Satanic if you will.

I don't think anyone here would ultimately say beyond a doubt that these entities are divine.... but they do appear helpful and compassionate...perhaps it is Satan and he is playing tricks with us and luring us into his lair with psychedelics ...who knows ....

H.

[baphomet]

I don't think anyone here would ultimately say beyond a doubt that these entities are divine...

the experience of communicating with a being is far out, there are no words to describe it, nothing to compare it to, just the knowledge that you experienced something divine

[holymountain]

okay not really wanting to inflame this any further. but just want to correct myself a little.

i did not mean to insinuate that some people are more deserving of encountering entities or whatever than others. what i meant was those approaching psychedelic experiences with the mind set of wanting a deep experience seem to be more likely to get a deeper experience. it's all set and setting. if you are taking mushrooms with freinds whilst camping the environment isn't really conducive to deep inner experiences. it is conducive to laughing your asses off and having a great time. however taking highish doses of mushrooms on your own in a dark room is likely to give you deep experiences where you can encounter a whole range of things. i didn't mean to exclude anyone when i talked about having the honour of encountering beings. it was the wrong word to use but i did and do feel very grateful for my experiences and i am honoured to have had them. i don't think anyone deserves them more than others but i do think it's up to you and how you approach the experience that determines what you get.

Ok buddy.. I saw the thread in which you drew pictures of these "entities" and if I remember rightly at least one of them was from the effects of mushrooms? DMT, I can't comment on cause I haven't used enough of it but if you are reporting this shit on mushrooms then I must say that I have a hard time believing your claims or think that maybe you have difficulty distinguishing between what's real & what's not.

maybe i am off with the fairies like you have suggested but i know what i've seen and experienced and theres not much i can do about it. you're right, i am having difficulty distinguishing whats real and whats not. i've thought long and hard about how it is possible and the answer is i don't know. these could all just be figments of my imagination but if thats the case then it's still worth investigating how my imagination can be so convincing and come up with stuff that i can't even fathom. i'm not trying to get glory from my 'claims' i'm just interested to find out if others have experienced similar things so i can figure out what the hell is happening. and if you look at the thread with my drawings you'll see several people saying they have seen similar things. do you have a hard time believing their claims as well? there are a lot of books written on this subject, a lot of people discussing it and a lot of documentation throughout history of people encountering various beings. who knows what the hell it means but there shouldn't be a problem with people trying to figure it out amongst themselves. all i've got are my experiences and all you have are your experiences which seem to mainly be of taking mushrooms with friends and smoking joints and laughing lots.

also..maybe divine wasn't the right word. right before i said divine i did say there aren't words to really describe it so nitpicking about the use of that word isn't really helpful. i honestly struggle to find the words to describe this stuff. what we are talking seems to be beyond the capabilities of our language or at least my vocabulary.

Edited May 12, 2009 by holymountain

[incognito]

if you are taking mushrooms with freinds whilst camping the environment isn't really conducive to deep inner experiences. it is conducive to laughing your asses off and having a great time. however taking highish doses of mushrooms on your own in a dark room is likely to give you deep experiences where you can encounter a whole range of things.

BINGO

[Chiral]

Yeah Holy you put it perfectly...personally I very rarely these days get high for the hell of it, and act like teenager so speak.... I usually plan my occasions and try to get the most out of them as possible and it is almost exclusively plant psychedelics and the occasions are spaced apart.

Baph will say oh yeah but what about your codeine addiction etc...I do admit that I use opiates like that as way of keeping calm and somewhat level...I'm really skitzy without them but what I can say is that since my experience on Friday I haven't touched any other meds and can't believe how alive and fresh I feel...even my wife has noticed how jolly and happy I have been....something has clicked I don't know what but something has happened...I took my daughter to feed the ducks yesterday and didn't feel any anxiety about being out and about or anything in fact it was extremely enjoyable and I was high on life if you like.

H.

[faustus]

I took my daughter to feed the ducks yesterday and didn't feel any anxiety about being out and about or anything in fact it was extremely enjoyable and I was high on life if you like.

i was waiting for you to say something like this

a lot of people claim that they have profound spiritual experiences due to psychedelics or that the true nature of reality has revealed itself to them, but if this doesn't transfer into real-world changes and improvements in your life, then it doesn't mean shit.

[Chiral]

Agree 100% man.... whats the point if it's not healing and making positive changes in your life....that's why I never really understood heavy pot smokers but I guess that's pretty different as it's not psychedelic ...but in all honesty I am feeling remarkably happy and bouncing around the place like I'm 16 again...it's a little strange but I'm stoked none the less...can't put my finger on why or how but right now I'm just content....

H.

[ThunderIdeal]

pot is psychadelic. personally, i have powerful experiences whenever i first resume smoking pot, but it diminishes over time and somehow i get trapped in a cycle where i'm smoking every day and it's really more harmful than useful, so i quit again (it stops being psychadelic pretty quickly with daily use). using tobacco with pot is definitely not the wisest way to go about it.

[incognito]

using tobacco with pot is definitely not the wisest way to go about it.

ur opinion only.

no way i could personally smoke erb without spin. yuk.

alas my wise friend , i am in total agreeance with you. after long breaks, ganja is very psychadelic for me. strong ganja gives me fractals and a most intense self reflection, which give me extremely useful insight into myself and the world around me.

i agree the psychadelic effects seem to wane with regular use.

Edited May 12, 2009 by incognito

[santiago]

In regards to Alien abduction, which was previously referenced and the relatioship it has with all things either real or percieved as real or mystical one really has to first look into the capabilities of the human mind.

As i said before nowhere, nobody has one iota of proof that anything mystical exists, if you do prove it. In actual fact we are probably just a by absolute fluke of time and space, planet conditions and location and type of atmosphere and co existing fauna and flora an absolute chance happening, we are by a unimaginably small and stroke of luck chance, humans that is, we will never be able to comprehend.

Even if another planet existed with intelligent life and the managed to build a spaceship, the same rules of physics must apply, there is no way they can build a ship to go 1/4 the speed of light, if even the speed of light itself, which would be needed to travel the great depths of space, and even if they did would they just stumble apon planet earth, a proverbial needle in a haystick.

Lets face it, the planet is all we have, there is no such thing as ghosts or aliens or anything remarkable, we cant even decide on a combined religion. Can somebody please PROVE that something else exists, please, until then the only proof there is is that all this crap just comes from inside our mind.

http://www.treurniet.ca/Ufo/AbductionReality.htm

[MindExpansion]

Yeh weed has given me very prfound self and world analysis comparable to most of the other psychedelics ive used.

Eventually these were negated by the paranoia and feeling of addiction.

Not a fan of spin myself, tended to smoke bongs green, and spin joints with leonotis, sceletium etc.

Peace

[Chiral]

Yeah no I'm pretty much off the mark with saying it's not psychedelic ...I do remember buying some skunk from a cafe in Amsterdam and going back to my hotel with my GF and smoking a spliff each and tripping balls hard core ...but the old school usual bush buds of yesteryear where no way like the modern superfreaky hydro.

I don't think you can say smoke a huge amount of skunk in one sitting and have an experience similar to mushrooms or mescaline where you can have life changing events...that also meaning not having to smoke it again either too I mean....most pot smokers smoke daily, they don't smoke for enlightenment or deep hyperspace diagnostic voyages ...do they...I dunno because I gave up weed many many moons ago....it had some really adverse effects with me...paranoia and anxiety were unbearable....munchies I could deal with but the rest meh...

H.

[holymountain]

Lets face it, the planet is all we have, there is no such thing as ghosts or aliens or anything remarkable, we cant even decide on a combined religion. Can somebody please PROVE that something else exists, please, until then the only proof there is is that all this crap just comes from inside our mind.

http://www.treurniet.ca/Ufo/AbductionReality.htm

I'll prove that something exists right after you prove that nothing exists. Why must other intelligent life be governed by the same rules of physics as us? why do we have to leave earth to meet this life? why can't it exist alongside us in a parrallel dimension? why must it be physical? humans always fall into the trap of assuming other life forms should fit into our concieved notions of them.

we can't see radio raves with our eyes but we have developed tools that allow us to pick them up and recieve them. so there is then no doubt that radio waves exist. who's to say that DMT isn't a tool that allows us to pick up and recieve waves previously hidden and thought non existant?

the point of mystical experiences is that they are not physical and they are not tangible. thats what makes them so mystical.

if you want proof you might have to partake in your own shamanic adventure. i'm talking breakthrough, heroic doses. not just good fun giggles doses. the proof will be in the pudding and you'll know it when you get there.

but then you can also say 'all this crap just came from inside my mind'...as far as i'm concerned that doesn't solve anything. the reality you are experiening right now also comes from inside your mind. everything comes from inside your mind. the question is: where does my mind come from and how is it capable of creating such experiences?

as for weed. i agree it is psychedelic in it's own way but as soon as you start smoking it regularly all the magic stops and all the negatives start kicking in.

Edited May 12, 2009 by holymountain

[faustus]

everything comes from inside your mind. the question is: where does my mind come from and how is it capable of creating such experiences?

the brain produces a simulation of the external world from the input it receives through the senses. it's correct to say that we can never know what reality is, because we only have an indirect experience of it through our senses.

everyone's brain produces a simulation of the world. where these simulations overlap, this is called "reality". but again, objective reality isn't and shouldn't be determined by the consensus experience.

i've kept quiet until now because i really just don't want to be associated with baphomet. and i didn't want to be a sourpuss.

whether or not the entities are real is a metaphysical issue, and beyond knowledge. there is no evidence that they DON'T exist. nor there is there any evidence that they DO exist. in the absence of evidence i choose to sit on the fence i.e. remain agnostic. IMHO, the only rationale perspective to take is to be agnostic. even if the clouds parted and god revealed himself to you, you can never be sure if what you experienced was real or not.

and yes, i've had very strange and very realistic non-ordinary states of consciousness, WITHOUT drugs!

[santiago]

I'll prove that something exists right after you prove that nothing exists.

Very true, it is however the foundation of an argument that we have all been using since school days. Sometimes when my 4yo daughter pesters me from the booster seat in the back seat, 'but why dad, why.....why why why' i can quickly create silence by saying 'why not'.

Hey dont take me to seriously, im on this forum for something to do, i really like the topics and its sorta like practice to be the lawyers we will never be (not to say some out there are not). Its such an interesting topic for the fact that it has that underlying, dont talk at the dinner table about politics or religion feel to it because nobody will ever agree and it can stir up major differences. This stuff probably started civil wars in times gone by but here we are rationally discussing it and the fact that naughty chems arte part of the process as well.

Fuck me im running out of time, im going to research how i can disprove that nothing exists, because it is already easy to prove that nothing exists

[apothecary]

I was high on life if you like.

Why can't we just call it what it most probably is: you weren't high on life at all, rather you were high on the after-effects of a massive dose of serotonergic drugs.

I would take what faustus said one step further. The positive effects derived from a positive experience do not mean shit simply for translating into a good feeling for a few days after or the ability to feed the ducks where normally you couldn't: rather you need to be able to rationalise what you have supposedly learnt and put it to good use in your day to day life. Why exactly do you think you feel so good right now Hunab?

More often than not when I have previously seen people reporting trips like this they end up crashing pretty hard from the psychedelic peak within a year. i.e. you have reached the point of big red flag despite how good it feels. The forum is littered with such examples of people who found it very easy to take high doses of something, "talk the talk" with the right terminology and keep up their "shamanic adventure" for a while, but very hard to rationalise these experiences into anything lasting or useful in their lives, often to their ultimate detriment on a much larger scale than the supposed benefits they derived from their cumulative experiences.

I would be tempted to warn you that anyone saying otherwise is a liar, but that's only my opinion and personal experiences talking again.

If you want my advice (a big part of me is telling another part of me to not even bother posting in this thread): now would be a great time (as any point in the last few months imo) for you to get off the drugs. All drugs. Followed by a serious re-evaluation of your life and its goals. My feeling is that if you don't do it now by choice, you'll be forced to do it sooner rather than later on much poorer circumstances. I base this only on my witnessing of several such scenarios.

[MindExpansion]

Sina I was going to say a similar thing but thought I may as well just leave it.

I think you're virtually spot on, these 'great' and profound after effects of high dose psychedelics never tend to last long for most people and often then don't have any lasting benifit.

And I totally agree with your last paragraph, Hunab knows my feelings on the matter so they don't need saying again.

Peace

[Chiral]

Why can't we just call it what it most probably is: you weren't high on life at all, rather you were high on the after-effects of a massive dose of serotonergic drugs.

how can you be so sure of that...? 3 -4 days later it's not afterglow anymore its more like a reboot.

I would take what faustus said one step further. The positive effects derived from a positive experience do not mean shit simply for translating into a good feeling for a few days after or the ability to feed the ducks where normally you couldn't: rather you need to be able to rationalise what you have supposedly learnt and put it to good use in your day to day life.

I beleive i am but don't see the need to publicise it here ...I'm getting around at home and with my family in a far more positive manner continously now instead of very ocaisionally...I've only just started to unwind and am looking at doing some other creative hobbies etc....it's too much to dribble out here but i am happy and content and moving in a direction that feels right at the moment.

Why exactly do you think you feel so good right now Hunab?

I really struggle to answer that because the day after on saturday I was in a lot of pain and was suffering some serious mental and physical issues...they all completly resolved the following day at a rate i have never known before...usually a come down from say a weekend of parting will drag on till like wednesday especially when you have to go to work but I was ill one day and almost a completly different person 24hrs later...I tell you I just don't know why..I cannot explain it at present sorry..perhaps you have a theory.

More often than not when I have previously seen people reporting trips like this they end up crashing pretty hard from the psychedelic peak within a year. i.e. you have reached the point of big red flag despite how good it feels. The forum is littered with such examples of people who found it very easy to take high doses of something, "talk the talk" with the right terminology and keep up their "shamanic adventure" for a while, but very hard to rationalise these experiences into anything lasting or useful in their lives, often to their ultimate detriment on a much larger scale than the supposed benefits they derived from their cumulative experiences.

I find that to be very believable but I would suggest that only some not all of those went in that direction...perhaps the ones you don't hear from anymore are off traveling the world or studying Buddhism..who knows...I'm extremely stubborn when it comes to these matters and have been born into this interest...from the age of 12 years old i knew all about most psychedelics from reading through a complete encyclopedia set my parents owned and from that day on it has been an ongoing obsession of mine...I have left many many people in my wake ...mostly partners who feel they didn't need to investigate any further or didn't get anything out of it with any purpose....I find it way too interesting to walk away from... sorry...it's always been my internal desire and always will be.

I would be tempted to warn you that anyone saying otherwise is a liar, but that's only my opinion and personal experiences talking again.

we don't know enough people around the world to come to those conclusions so I simply cannot ever comment on that period.

If you want my advice (a big part of me is telling another part of me to not even bother posting in this thread): now would be a great time (as any point in the last few months imo) for you to get off the drugs. All drugs. Followed by a serious re-evaluation of your life and its goals. My feeling is that if you don't do it now by choice, you'll be forced to do it sooner rather than later on much poorer circumstances. I base this only on my witnessing of several such scenarios.

I hear you loud and clear and will decide what to do with the rest of my life in good time, but I can assure you that experimentation with ethno's will continue but in all likeness synths have been abandoned all together now....I can't say anymore than that about it at present...stubborn ..yes..inquisitive and unrelenting in my pursuits ...yes...will I fall from grace...I don't know I might get hit by a car before any psychedelic meltdown occurred in me.

H.

[apothecary]

Well, that's pretty much the exact answer I was expecting but not hoping for, and the reason I didn't want to post anything.

Not gonna bother because I've heard it before the same lines at the same point on the path a few too many times.

Can only say I hope I'm wrong.

Edited May 12, 2009 by apothecary

[Chiral]

I know what you are trying to say ...its like a smart gambler who wins a lot of money and walks away with his winnings... a dumb gambler wins and then decides its not enough and keeps going till its all lost again...it's the same hypothesis...

ME says he agrees with you and I have just asked him why he does not take your advice as well as he is having difficulties with weed and psychedelics etc...

and his response is well yeah he probably should but i bet my last nickel it doesn't happen.

Don't get me wrong Apoth I have the greatest admiration for your intelligence around here but I cannot simply take your advice and drop everything that has been a part of my life since I was able to investigate these substances some 30 years ago...I'm also wondering if you would also take your own advice...I kind of feel like I'm being singled out here....my original intentions were to relay an experience to other board members which is what this community is about...grow a plant consume it tell us about your experiences etc etc.

H.

[incognito]

jesus christ sina thats a fairly selfrighteous decree!

seems from what ive read u believe Hunab is on a downward spiral.

fuck everyone has their ups and downs in life, even YOU im sure.

i think people are starting to project alot of their own personal issues onto this post (me included).

I think everyone has learned something from this, not just Hunab.

the power of subs.

[FancyPants]

I hear you loud and clear and will decide what to do with the rest of my life in good time, but I can assure you that experimentation with ethno's will continue but in all likeness synths have been abandoned all together now....I can't say anymore than that about it at present...stubborn ..yes..inquisitive and unrelenting in my pursuits ...yes...will I fall from grace...I don't know I might get hit by a car before any psychedelic meltdown occurred in me.

H.

Right out of my mouth.

[t st tantra]

hunab looks on the upward spiral to me!

hunab how does your wife feel about your 'habits'?and how do you feel about hers?

i have had some good relationships but .......

t s t .

Edited May 12, 2009 by t st tantra

[apothecary]

edit

Edited May 13, 2009 by apothecary

[apothecary]

I reckon you should just ignore what I said Hunab. Nevermind.

Edited May 13, 2009 by apothecary