Chemicals and hormones to induce mutations

[Jack]

Does anyone know anything about this topic as i can find very little info online regarding this and cacti. So far my experiments are using mechanical injury to induce mutations will know more as these plants grow in the next 12months.

[Auxin]

I'm starting to experiment with irradiating very small seedlings with a UV-C sterilizing lamp to induce mutagenesis. Light is easier to block than potent chemical mutagens so in that regard its safer (tho can cause blindness and skin cancer). I've already had a few fatalities.. all of the plant kind

As for chemical mutagens nitrous acid/nitrite might be easiest to source and most relatively safe, sodium nitrite is in those oxygen absorbing packets in jars of candied anchovy snacks and stuff. Dissolve some in water, maby with some citric acid, and it'll have the power to mutate seed DNA. I'd avoid organic chemical mutagens except maby colchicine (tho even it is quite deadly, just not particularly carcinogenic)

[Jack]

Thanks for that auxin do you have any links to further information? Any cacti links i find only mention chemical mutagens but dont specify.

So that bridgesii seedling you posted pics of was that caused be exposing the seedlings to your UV-C lamp?

Edited April 2, 2009 by Jack

[ThunderIdeal]

i'm not sure if it's exactly what you're after but there was a big thread here about using a (very dangerous) chemical to grow freak plants, and one poster's low tech method involved chopping up some type of canna which is high in the (dangerous) chemical.

[Jack]

ThunderIdeal please post the link I am interested in taking a look. I need to know everything I can about the subject.

[Ace]

Some info about the Autumn Crocus and Colchicine (a mutagenic chemical) can be gleaned from this thread. See also here and here.

jars of candied anchovy snacks

I'd hate to be a kid in that candy store...

Edited April 2, 2009 by Ace

[Alchemica]

Try using the search engine for "colchicine".

A couple of other links that could be of use (not directly related to cacti):

http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload/...0005b7e_204.pdf

http://plant-tc.cfans.umn.edu/listserv/200...4/msg00071.html

Edited April 2, 2009 by The Alchemist

[Jack]

thanks must have missed that

[ThunderIdeal]

yes, autumn crocus, not canna! links appear to have been provided, and i wouldn't have done your searching in any event ( i will just supply the dud leads )

be sure and let us know what transpires, jack

Edited April 2, 2009 by ThunderIdeal

[Auxin]

Damn, lost my links to use of nitrite/nitrous acid on seeds to induce mutation. I keep intending to trial different concentrations on tomato seeds to get an idea of effectiveness but I always get distracted. Theres more info on use of organics like ethyleneimine and pure nitroso compounds (one of the critters nitrous acid would make in the seed to do the magic) but thats pretty dangerous. Some colchicine links were posted, theres some good info on that- I'd just like to point out that treating unawoken seed gives a high chance of making polyploids which dont really look all mutantey, if you want monsters then it might be better to treat already awoken seeds so theres more cells and maby just some would go polyploid/aneuploid... like how chimera are mixes of different cactus cells this would be mixes of the same cactus cells but with different chromosome counts in.

And no, that bridgesii seedling never got hit by UVC, its a self created mutant

jars of candied anchovy snacks

I'd hate to be a kid in that candy store...

Man, dont knock my candied anchovy snacks! Sweet salty anchovyie goodness

[Garbage]

I can say that after a nuclear scare involving a meteorite that wasn't and a period of hellish illness after breathing in the dust from a ground corner which i also polished barehanded with waterstones i mention that harnessing the power of the atom could be the thing.

To cut this sorry episode short i now have an 'Inspector Alert' by International Medcom,and a move of flat imminent.

If you scare easily then read no further.

Outside when it is not raining i get about 35 counts per minute average and indoors about 45,my old bed when fully clothed with Duvet reads about 53 CPM.

A white glazed cup jumps to about 60 as do the windows,the bathroom tiles read about 90CPM and the Kitchen tiles 100 CPM,the toilet can only muster 80 but the bahroom sink reads 155 CPM and cleaning it makes no difference.

Online you may find granite countertops read 60 background plus 60 beta and 60 gamma for a total of 180CPM,some countertops seem to be mined adjacent to Uranium Mines and alpha can apparently be difficult to read with many meters so radiation from the above sources could be higher...

A housebrick in situ reads about 80CPM.

It's possibly glazes that are the culprits,online you may find that your childs or your own glazed china drinking cup contains at least uranium and thorium.

Like the lady at the Health Protection Agency remarked to me,'There is radiation in everything'.

My glazed pots for example can muster 70 CPM.

My quick fix for altering the DNA of seeds would be placing them on a white glazed tile for beta irradiation.

[.dg]

http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=58223

awsome thread at the nook.....

[rhodostom]

Auxin,

I'd be very interested to learn more about what you are trying and how it is working. Nitty gritty details etc.

Cultivar has a few articles about irradiation and cactus, but at least on the web, they do not post their specific parameters they used to induce the mutations.

Link 1

Link 2

[Auxin]

Ok, my research isnt very far yet but heres what I have.

I'm using a 4 Watt portable UVC sanitizer

I plant the seeds in a row and before they start sprouting multiple areoles I use the UVC lamp to irradiate them. To date I have been doing it at a distance of 15-20 mm from seedling to surface of bulb (its recessed into the unit by about 1 cm). My initial trials consisted of irradiating either for a solid 8 minutes or 10 minutes but the 8 minute group did poorly and the 10 minute group flat out died. After that I refined my method to, instead of doing all the damage at once, irradiate in shorter bursts giving time for multiple cell divisions between treatments so the surviving tissue could deal with the damage better. I trialed one spare seedling with 2 minute bursts every 2-3 days and over 10 days gave 4 treatments. It was visably scared after the fourth treatment so I waited a few days and then grafted. Its now 8 days post-grafting and 3 weeks since irradiation began and it survived grafting and removal from the humidity bubble I put on new grafts and has shown the first signs of growth on its apical meristem So I'm gonna continue developing that technique of repeated short irradiations with recovery time in between. Next up are more T. peruvianus and some T. macrogonus, perhaps some T. bridgesii X T. pachanoi F1's

[ddd]

From reading a lot on these fourms, it seems that the monstrose cacti generall have higher alkaloid levels. I'm wondering what would happen if some of these chemicals within the cacti are extracted and applied to a cactus-would a mutation happen?

For example: Extract "X" from the tbm, then inject-feed- or topically apply "X" to a normal bridgesii. I wonder if there's a point where the bridgesii will start monstrose growth because of "X"?

It would be interesting to see a chemical analysis of the TBM's vs the regular bridgesiis. Maybe the tbms would be higher in certain chemicals. Then maybe these chemicals could be used to produce monstrosities.

What if it's hormone that causes the monstrosity? Then what would happen if a regular bridgesii was grafted onto a tbm? Do you think the hormones would be transfered and possibly cause a monstrosity?

[Moses]

http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=58223

awsome thread at the nook.....

excellent read thanx dg420 , does anyone know where i can get some BAP in adelaide/australia??

i would love to try it on some variegates i have at the moment.

Auxin,

I'd be very interested to learn more about what you are trying and how it is working. Nitty gritty details etc.

Cultivar has a few articles about irradiation and cactus, but at least on the web, they do not post their specific parameters they used to induce the mutations.

Link 1

Link 2

ive been trying to contact cultivar for over a year to purchase their special edition mag which goes into more depth on irradiating seeds apparently and other breeding practices for colour mutations but no answer.

does anyone here have the mag in question or contact with cultivar??

[ThunderIdeal]

regular bridgesii was grafted onto a tbm? Do you think the hormones would be transfered and possibly cause a monstrosity?

or vice versa? interesting post.

[tipz]

Bump, I was going to start a similar thread but i found this one

Just wondering how you went with your experiments auxin, and if you ended up obtaining BAP Moses and what have your results been ?

Also where would one obtain colchicine ? I have 10000 trich seeds coming and i really want to make some mutants.

cheers - Tipz

[Bongchitis]

Bump, I was going to start a similar thread but i found this one

Just wondering how you went with your experiments auxin, and if you ended up obtaining BAP Moses and what have your results been ?

Also where would one obtain colchicine ? I have 10000 trich seeds coming and i really want to make some mutants.

cheers - Tipz

 

A gout medication called Colgout contains colchicine but requires a prescription or unsuspecting grandparents.... otherwise there is the crocus flower.

[tripsis]

Plant hormones cannot be used to induce mutagenesis tipz, so if that's your plan, you're better off trying something.

[Change]

BUMP

well its been 6 years, thats some solid time to plan and execute an experiment.

so whats happened with the UV-C sterilizing lamp tek you were talking about Auxin ?

has anyone else had any success or failures ?

[Auxin]

The UV-C killed most and of the survivors a few looked nice and tortured for a year or three but then they just became normal looking cacti.

I may not have done enough seedlings. Did a few dozen when I should have done a thousand, lol

[Change]

Has anyone tried using a UV-C bulb on a mature plant ?

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Thanks for the update auxin!

[Señor Corrochio]

Has anyone tried using a UV-C bulb on a mature plant ?

This type of thing should really just be done on seeds, also I think UVC spectrum would be way too weak to expect any results (by about 10000 times weaker).