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shouldn't people be able to journey on their own impetus rather than within the meme conditioning of the tribe,

Sure. So why would these people demand spoon-feeding and instant gratification from the "The Tribe"?

Brothers, this one nears too close to the truth. Don your cowls, we will convene on how to deal with this reprobate upon next new moon. I'll bring the maté.

and if the medical community, why not the psychiatric or psychological knowledge bases....or the scientific analyst, X-modality healer, chemist, ecologist, biologist, sociologist, ethnobotanist... entheogenisist??

Perhaps some of these people already have some of this information. Probably only the ones with dreadlocks though.

why does this stink of the self justifying DMT ego demon raising its head again? what is really to be gained using this knowledge restriction other than an elite servicing their own needs?

Why does that stink of the over-analyzing paranoiac conspiracy theorist?

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.

Edited by lsdreamz

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Maybe we need to create an "inner circle" forum... as dire as it sounds, it does allow us to share findings and things and not tell the whole world and every 15 year old kid and so on.

Julian.

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Can u please google earth mark all ur best mushroom picking spots for us then and then put the link here so every1 can have free access to ur best picking locations? I may need to know where to pick shrooms one day should I happen to be in ur area.

Firstly, this info is not secret. It is public knowledge for those bothered to look it up. Yes even google can give u the answers u seek. There is a massive clue here for those with enough determination to do sum googling and come up with an answer. It is sumthing u don't seem to grasp and we can't seem to explain too u adequately.

I am sorry this has caused an arguement, but there are other places on the net where these things can be discussed more freely.

Peace

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Massive is an understatement. You can lead a horse to water....

plus it's been talked about before.

Can't see gates holding long though, that's just the way it is. Initiative doesn't = good intention.

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this is a message from the nyungar people concerning this tree

i have been asked to pass this on to everyone reading this post.

------------------------

the moodjar is an important tree to nyungar people, being of significant cultural value. The tree itself takes a long time to establish and is already under significant threat due to land clearing and environmental stresses. It is advisable, no matter where you are located within Australia, to seek permission from the local indigenous community for plant harvesting and use. This means that everything operates in a sustainable way, and can be monitored by Indigenous elders.

Please do not collect plants without seeking permission first from your local aboriginal community. Plants are available from xanthoria nursery at various times of the year, we would like to urge people to consider purchasing these plants and nurturing them before taking plants or parts of them from their natural environment.

-------------------------

this is a concern to indigenous elders. the last thing the ethno community needs is negative public attention brought to them by careless attitudes towards indigenous culture and plants, surely we here are respectful towards plants, and can understand how important plants are to many people throughout the world. do we wish to be seen as new age hippies or 'druggies' out to find the latest high, or buzz? or do we wish to be seen as intelligent mindful people who actually understand the meaning of ethnobotany?

ethnobotany is more than collecting plants and procuring native names......... (it is) suggested that ethnobotanists should strive to explain deep understandings of plant life and plant relationships as perceived by the indigenous peoples (Robbins. 1916)

someone mentioned ayahuasca in this thread, when schultes was going through the amazon he actually apprenticed himself to an Amazonian shaman, which involves a long term commitment and genuine relationship, i think this is a good example that he was respectful to the people and the plants he was looking into, he wasnt going in there and helping himself, to be the first white man to 'discover' ayahuasca.

so i have been asked to present this message to us here from the nyungar people. its up to us to decide what happens in the future. i say let the plants be, if you wish to explore more about this tree then get involved with nyungar community. how many people here who have harvested this plant have spoken with indigenous elders about this?

i think now about henry cox and the work he has done with pituri, i dont know the exact details but i do know that he has worked with community over many years and developed a close relationship to indigenous communities to be able to do the work he has done with pituri, he didnt do this for selfish gains i gather, and has proven himself to indigenous communities as someone they can trust with information about a sacred plant. perhaps we could take inspiration from people such as cox and allow their behavior to inform our own actions in regards to australian ethnobotany.

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inpsyte,you claim to have much involvement and knowledge......how much have you chosen to share here on these public forums.......little ,i believe........so when others make the same decision you scream elitist conspiracy......i feel youre largely here because you like to debate......

i would prefer to make everything public but the recent changes to the political/legal situation have changed my actions.......

t s t .

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I think the main issue is not whether the information is public or private.

It's how it is presented. Western culture tends to degrade the Sacredness of these plants.

This community should be walking in the opposite direction, in an effort to sanctify the plants and their spiritual paths within modern culture.

Not directly related to this subject, but worth mentioning, is how modern culture goes by deteriorating the "meaning" of things.

A clear example of this is the act of giving names to things, thus benefiting from inheriting the somewhat established meaning

but degrading the meaning for future generations to come. It might seem "cool" for some rock band aspirant to name his band

with some word which refers to a plant or anything else by the matter, and it might seem he is even honoring that subject,

however, the once established meaning has now become just a product of consumer capitalism, a google search will

probably return more information related to the band than to the original meaning of the word.

The same applies to movies, business names, product names, anything that can be marketed and sold...

Now the question to ask is "am I worthy of it?". Did I ask permission?

Edited by James

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there seems to be no conspiracy,just a number of people with similar ideas,talking about it openly here.........

t s t .

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The good thing is that this being out in the open, people will propogate plants and knowing it is special, it can be assisted to grow more prolifically in the wild.

Julian.

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More importantly, the trail can possibly take one across the whole interior of Oz.

Intriguing...

As is it's eastern lookalike.

Edited by strangebrew

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First off I wish to state that I am very much pro-conservationist and can well understand and even support at times the with-holding of information out of concern for a species wellfare. But in this case I wonder how much hypocrisy is involved and how much elitist BS. Since I believe I already know the species being referred to, its no skin off my back whether the species is named here or not. (though I think it should for the following reasons)

What I find more than a little strange is that the species that may become endangered due to rarity and difficulty of propagation is named here while the species that is as common as muck is kept secret.

Being as common as muck it may well be best if there are no qualms whatsoever about revealing the species name (maybe we should be singing like canary's) since this may take some of the pressure off the species that are presently or more likely to come under pressure.

Edited by Mycot

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What I find more than a little strange is that the species that may become endangered due to rarity and difficulty of propagation is named here while the species that is as common as muck is kept secret. Please explain.

Glad you said that. Totally mystified me too why the potentially vulnerable, impossible to cultivate species remained named. For a moment I was beginning to think I was barking up the wrong wattle. :lol:

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Once again, it's not secret. Just not 100% public knowledge. I am sure there are many people who wish the rarer species were unnamed, but u can't undo sumthing that has already been done. Once again, this species has been published in an international ethnobotanical journal and can be found via google if one knows wat or where too look for such info. I have explained my reasons why I choose not to divulge this info too public forum. The info is out there, one just needs too know where too look and have the determination to do sum reading and not just a simple google search like "Acacia DMT W.A."

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Maybe I'm a little slow since we continue to speak about other more vulnerable acacia species in this forum.

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Would u like me too send u sum seeds Mycot? I got plenty there.

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:lol: Nah but thanks Naja. I'm just arguing on principle.

And like you say it is pretty easy to look up, I just cant understand the secrecy in this case.

Edited by Mycot

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It's a good point.

I don't really think either species is at any risk

some particular special genotypes may be - but much of that damage has already been done by widespread land clearing.

Personally I think whatever can be kept off google/wikipedia/the shroomery should be. Tell your friends by word of mouth if you think they will act responsibly and if they have a need to know (ie, a realistic ability to use the information).

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this is a message from the nyungar people concerning this tree

i have been asked to pass this on to everyone reading this post.

I have taken these words as someone who lives closely with the elders, and stepped out to confirm some of my theories on the Christmas bush. I have consulted with prominent members of the community and they have informed me that the flowers were used in bush medicine. I have tried a brew of the bark and leaves and nothing to report, but the flowers seemed to have an effect. Nothing can really be ascertained till next flowering. More bush outings planned with the nyungar contact and yes I take this culture seriously as I have in all my ventures that had anything to do with something that belongs to the land owners or custodians.

Ps: Stop this idle bickering and get on with each other. It's all for the same cause in my opinion.

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interesting possibilities similar to nac if this plant was legislated against then ?

strange its only the flowers active but there seem to be flavones that are maoi so that might be what the actives are.....

t s t .

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good point tst

does anyone else agree that all the "bickering parties" have valid points.

good points brought up i think, not all bickering.

also good to know that this is done with the locals. be good to work with them a lot more as our culture is so shallow, missing a lot.

and am also sure they would be happy with our mostly mature interest into the subject of plants.

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rastazungu i would be interested to know the elders you are talking to, if you want to message me that is fine. i would also like to offer that if anyone needs help making contact with nyungar community you can message me and i will give you some contact details.

VS

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so to the important stuff....

is it a MAOI?

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