ozopo!

[t st tantra]

had a serendipitous encounter during the week,with the chance to pick the brain of someone who had explored one of the subjects i am curious about.......yopo from acacia.

the claim related to an oz sp,said to contain different actives to those usually worked with.

the seeds apparently look like mini anaden seeds.....flat,about 2 to 3 match heads in size.

4 seeds,smoked, seems an active dose,which would make it more potent volume wise than anaden.

but effects are different,much light,very bright........lasted at least 2 hours without added maoi.

opinion offered was a belief it could be something like some kind of pea and some different [more simple?] tryptamine than usual with maoi from the pea or some betacarboline.

common street tree in some places, my research today shows it as endangered which leaves the q of making the info public or not?my hope is this will encourage further research into other acacia sp seeds.

i could only find one listing in sst for acacia seeds and it was a positive for spice in a plant in which i would expect to have found only very simple tryptamines.

so this suggest the differing profiles of different plant parts needs more work............

t s t .

[hebrew]

well this is very interesting, but i agree that if it is endagered i think the descision to make it public is a tough one, just after reading what people have done to a maidenii in melbourne it makes you wonder if any information should be given out freely which is really sad.

that being said i am very curious.

[t st tantra]

further research shows the wood is used for making smoking pipes!

t s t .

[hebrew]

you've got me intrigued now tst.

when i think of acacia seeds i think of them as a food source so i am guessing this particular tree doesnt have any use as a food source? or maybe the alkaloids present are not orally active? its interesting at least, make me think of all the various acacias out there that have been overlooked.

[t st tantra]

the trees i saw had galls and maybe something else resulting in some nice regularly formed structures that dont seem to be anything they should be...........very few pods and seeds had largely dropped.

if you know your acacia the small flat seeds should be a giveaway?

anyone know a source for bulk acacia seed?

i've got a pm asking for the name from someone but i'd rather people helped find new ones......will think about it.......opinions?

t s t .

[hebrew]

yeah man let us work it out for ourselves. i was going to ask you but thought well it could be like a treasure hunt you have given some clues in your posts for us to try and figure it out

so lets look into acacia seeds

[hebrew]

one question does it have a spike flower?

[hebrew]

so i got an idea of what this acacia is but i am must be wrong becuase i know the seeds from the one i am thinking of are a staple food for aboriginal mobs.

this question still keeps ringing in my head can you eat these seeds and not experience the effects? are the effects only active smoked? maybe i am thinking of the a different acacia. anyway are these seeds edible?

[gerbil]

nice one, sounds very interesting :D

are we definitely talking an acacia? or in the mimosaceae family?

Have a few ideas and am happy to be kept guessing :D will figure it one day.

With what i'm thinking, possibly seems as if it's a bit of an outlier in the sense of sections of acacia that have had the most work.

thanks for the info mate.

there are various sources for bulk acacia seed, but IME it's hard to find a one stop shop, best to try it's state of origin, seedbanks in that area both private and government and similar native nurseries.

Edited February 7, 2009 by gerbil

[t st tantra]

a native acacia, greyish/green phylodes,palish yellow ball flower[from text not seen].

think its got a reasonable number of relies around but cant find a good ref atm.plurinerves section.

animal fodder ,seed doesnt seem to be human food.

common in sth qld and nsw ,only endangered in vic.

got hold of another report ,4 smoked maidenii seeds[minus coloured part] was above threshold but not fully active,interestingly different........2nd opinions pls?

t s t .

Edited February 7, 2009 by t st tantra

[hebrew]

interesting i dont think it is the acacia i am thinking as the one i am thinking comes from the Juliflorae section of acacia's. but it is also related to a pituri ash the one i was thinking with grey green foliage

anyway

maidenii seeds that sounds intriguing, i dont have any seeds to give this a try, but someone who does should give it a go i reckon.

[Yeti101]

a native acacia, greyish/green phylodes,palish yellow ball flower[from text not seen].

think its got a reasonable number of relies around but cant find a good ref atm.plurinerves section.

animal fodder ,seed doesnt seem to be human food.

Very interesting - I don't have access to this exact one, but I do have seeds to one very similar and had entertained similar thoughts.

got hold of another report ,4 smoked maidenii seeds[minus coloured part] was above threshold but not fully active,interestingly different........2nd opinions pls?

I just happen to have some lying around, now to find a few more guinea pigs!

Nice work t st - what would we do without you?

[toast]

Very interesting thread. Awesome work t s, as usual!

Do you know if a snuff is possible?

Thanks for the clues.

Will have to start investigating other spp

Edited February 7, 2009 by toast

[toast]

Seed World Australia sells wattle seeds by the kilo

http://www.seedworld.com.au

[t st tantra]

list of oz sp with sections included.........

http://www.worldwidewattle.com/infogallery...alia&sect=y

Edited February 8, 2009 by t st tantra

[t st tantra]

black wattle ,a melanoxylon has been mentioned as being used,dreamtime? and i see another name said to be active......both in plurinerves......

t s t .

glad the veiws went from 7 to 196 almost instantly, i thought something wasnt right.

Edited February 8, 2009 by t st tantra

[gerbil]

Think i may be in the ballpark

Seed seems quite available, and lots of what seems close relatives aside from the specific section.

Will try and look into the vic one.

[hebrew]

well i am confused now i reckon as to what these seeds are i thought i was on the trail but maybe not now.

[Mycot]

Nice work Tantra. Opens up new areas for exploration.

[t st tantra]

some notes on acacia seed and acacia sp used by humans,includes pituri ash plants and fish poisons.......

Beware if you are tempted to sample the wattle in your backyard as bush tucker or for medicinal purposes: many acacia species contain toxins that require extensive preparation before they can be used, and others should never be used.

Medicine

Preparations from at least 30 of the more than 950 acacia species in Australia were traditionally used by indigenous Australians for medicinal purposes (Wickens and Pennachio 2001). Different parts of the acacia plant; leaves, branchlets, bark, gum, roots, pods and seeds, were prepared in different ways to drink or apply externally to cure ailments. The following examples indicate the range of illnesses treated by indigenous peoples in the Northern Territory and Western Australia using different acacia preparations.

Flu, coughs and colds

The symptoms of flus, coughs and colds were treated with acacia leaves, branchlets or bark freshly prepared as poultices, washes, tonics, or inhalations. For example, a large handful of crushed A. oncinocarpa leaves was made into a decoction drunk for chest infections or used as a wash for fever by people living on Bathurst and Melville Islands (Northern Territory).

To relieve cold and flu symptoms, new season’s leaves and twigs of A. lysiphloia (Turpentine Bush) were either used as an aromatic wash or made into a poultice by heating on embers or hot stones until they were soft and scorching. The poultice was then held firmly over painful areas such as the head or small of the back to relieve the aches from colds and flu.

To clear nasal congestion, a steam inhalation was prepared by boiling a handful of crushed fresh leaves from A. multisiliqua in about 800-900 ml of water. In Western Australia the inner bark of A. tetragonophylla (Dead Finish) was prepared as a decoction and an infusion to be taken for coughs.

An infusion from A. holosericea bark was swallowed for laryngitis and a decoction of A. kempeana (Witchetty Bush) leaves was used as a wash for severe colds. If it was inconvenient to prepare an infusion; while traveling for example, the leaves would simply be chewed to produce saliva that was swallowed (Aboriginal Communities of the Northern Territory1993).

Another acacia used to treat colds, sore throats and headache, was A. estrophiolata (Southern Ironwood). The bark from its smaller roots was crushed and infused with hot water until the liquid became dark red to black. This infusion was then poured over the affected part and rubbed in gently.

Skin ailments

Acacias such as A. auriculiformis (Ear-pod Wattle), A. holosericea, A. lysiphloia, and A. pellita (Kankulang) were used to treat itching from a number of skin conditions such as allergies, various diseases and rashes; including those caused by hairy, stinging caterpillars (itchy grubs).

A handful of ripe pods with seed and their funicles attached were crushed and rubbed together with a small amount of water in the palms of the hands to form a soapy lather. The pods and lather were then rubbed vigorously onto the skin where it was itchy (Marrfurra et al. 1995).

A decoction using the inner bark from the smooth younger branches of Acacia estrophiolata was used once daily for sores, boils and scabies and as a splash for inflamed eyes (Aboriginal Communities of the Northern Territory1993).

A red or blackish gum exuded by A. estrophiolata after it was damaged, was softened by kneading under water and applied like an ointment directly to sores and wounds. Hard pieces of gum were sometimes ground to fine powder which was dusted onto skin lesions (Aboriginal Communities of the Northern Territory1993).

Bandages

Long strips of the root bark of A. estrophiolata and A. tetragonaphylla were moistened with water and wrapped around sores, burns and larger wounds, and used to secure dressings. The stringy bark of A. cuthbertsonii (Silver Witchetty) was easily peeled off into long, tough ribbons and also used to secure dressings or, after moistening allowed to dry firmly in place as splints for fractures.

Wart removal

Warts were removed using the needle-like phyllodes of A. tetragonaphylla. They were used to pierce the base of the wart (perhaps as often as six times) or a number were inserted, and then broken off to leave the fine, sharp phyllode tips embedded in the wart. After four or five days the wart had shrivelled and was easily removed (Aboriginal Communities of the Northern Territory 1993).

Smoke therapy for good health

Smoke therapy was considered good for health in general and helpful to a mother and her new-born child immediately after childbirth and to stop post-partum bleeding. The leaves and twigs of a number of acacias were used in smoke therapy and generally mixed together according to availability. Species included A. aneura (Mulga), A. kempeana (Witchetty Bush), A. ligulata (Umbrella Bush), and A. lysiphloia. The warm smoke was produced by a thick covering of leaves laid over fire or coals placed in a small pit. The mother or patient lay over the leaves and was covered with more branches until they sweated copiously. A new-born child was held briefly over the smoke to promote good health (Aboriginal Communities of the Northern Territory 1993).

Food

Acacias provided a range of traditional foods; from seed to sweet gums to the animals (or their products) that used them for shelter and food.

In arid areas of Australia, seed from about 40 acacia species was used for food (Devitt 1992), although some, such as A. victoriae (Gundabluey) were preferable to others. And there were other acacias such as A. validinervia (Latz 1995) that were never eaten. The high nutritional value and wide availability of seed from various species, especially if the fat-rich seed aril that attached the seed to the pod was retained, made them a valuable resource in arid areas. And this was despite the considerable labour involved in collecting, and depending on species, threshing, cleaning, parching, pounding, winnowing and grinding to produce a flour for mixing with water to make a paste to be eaten either raw or cooked (Devitt 1992; Hegarty, Hegarty and Wills 2001).

Acacia aneura (Mulga) woodlands, widely spread in all mainland Australian states except Victoria (Flora of Australia 2001), are a common habitat for other foods apart from acacia seed e.g. the honey ant, the lerp scale (Austrotachardia acaciae) which exudes ‘honey dew’ that was made into a sweet drink, and the wasp which produces the juicy mulga apple. Kangaroos use mulga woodlands for shelter, and zebra finches nest in the branches. The highly valued witchetty grub (larvae of the Xyleutes moth) is found pupating in the roots of A. kempeana (Witchetty Bush) (Aboriginal Communities of the Northern Territory1993).

Compared with indigenous people living in arid areas, those in higher rainfall and coastal areas tended to prefer other foods from the wider range readily available to them (Hegarty, Hegarty and Wills 2001). For example, only seven acacias of the more than 240 native food plant species were commonly used in foods by North Queensland clans and only two of these acacias had edible seed. The other five acacias produced edible gums and roots (Hegarty, Hegarty and Wills 2001).

Depending on the species, seed was eaten and prepared in different ways by indigenous Australians: young green pods were eaten raw or green pods were roasted or steamed (e.g. A. ramulosa var. linophylla and A. palustris), or dry mature seed was ground into a flour, mixed with a little water and eaten as a paste (e.g. A. murrayana (Colony Wattle) or cooked as a damper (A. aneura has a nutty flavour). Uncooked seed from a small number of species were plucked from the pods and eaten raw as a ‘snack food’ (e.g. A. craspedocarpa, Hop Mulga).

Information about non-Aboriginal use of edible Australian acacia seed is provides elsewhere on Worldwidewattle.

Other traditional uses of Australian acacias

All parts of the acacia plant: branches, wood, bark, gum, flowers, pods, seeds and roots were used for a myriad of everyday purposes. The following briefly describes traditional uses other than medicines and food.

Acacias were used for firewood (e.g. A. auriculiformis, A. aneura) and to make shelters (e.g. A. aneura), weapons and implements. Acacia anuera was favoured for spear throwers, barbs, spear heads, clubs, shields, boomerangs, walking sticks and digging sticks because it rarely splits. Musical instruments such as clap sticks (e.g. made from A. mimula) and toys were made from acacia wood.

Acacia gums (e.g. from A. auriculiformis) were used as glues to make and repair tools and spear throwers, and to waterproof fish, mussel and water rat traps. String and rope, head decorations and sandals were made from the inner bark of species such as A. cuthbertsonii or the bark from younger trees (A. auriculiformis, A. holosericea). Fibre dyes were obtained from acacia roots (A. auriculiformis, A. holosericea, A. leptocarpa) and seed arils (A. colei). Honeydippers were made from crushed and softened bark (A. difficilis, A. dimidiata) or green stems (A. platycarpa) to soak up honey, wax and edible pollens from native bee hives (sugarbag).

Ash from species such as A. aneura, A. calcicola, A. coriacea (Wiry Wattle), A. eutrophiolata, A. ligulata (Umbrella Bush) and A. pruinocarpa was used to make pituri (a ball of chewing tobacco). The young leaves, flowers and flowering stalks of high, nicotine-containing native plants such as Duboisia hopwoodi (widespread in arid regions) and Nicotiana gossei (central Australia) were ground or chewed into a paste and then mixed with acacia ash for a more rapid release and absorption of the nicotine into the bloodstream through the lips and mouth (Latz 1995).

Leaves and pods of acacias were rubbed with water to produce a soapy lather for washing (A. auriculiformis, A. holosericea, A. leptocarpa).

And then there were the fish poisons: leaves, branches, bark, pods and seed from acacias such as A. auriculiformis, A. hemignosta, A. holosericea or A. leptocarpa were placed in small billabongs to poison fish. After a day or two, fish either swam slowly near the surface or asphyxiated dead fish (Wickens andPennacchio 2002) floated to the surface where they were easily collected, cooked and eaten without any ill effects (Marrfurra et al. 1995).

Acacias were also used as seasonal indicators or calendar plants. For example, when the flowers of A. dealbata (Silver Wattle) growing along the banks of the Yarra River, east of Melbourne (Victoria) fell into the water, it was time to fish for eels that fed on grubs that lived in the wattle flowers. See Wurrundjeri wattles on Worldwidewattle.

http://www.worldwidewattle.com/infogallery.../aboriginal.php

Of the sixty or so species of Acacia in central Australia, Latz (1995) states that some 50% were, or still are, eaten by Aboriginal people and it is not only the seed which is consumed. Several species exude an edible sugary gum from wounds in the stem or branches which supplies a source of energy. Others are fed upon by insects which themselves secrete an edible substance while species such as A. kempeana are the host for various edible grubs (Kalotas and Goddard 1985) often referred to by non-Aboriginal people as witchetty grubs.

Toxicity

Not all wattleseed was used for food. Many coastal and some arid species contain toxic compounds. A. longifolia is one of the few species recorded as having been eaten in coastal eastern Australia (Kohen 1992), similarly, Acacia georginae seed reportedly contains sodium fluoroacetate the major constituent of 1080, a widely used rodenticide (P. Latz pers. commun.).

A. ligulata, umbrella bush, is a widespread and common semi-arid species. A. Kalotas (pers. comm. 1994) noted that there are mixed reports of the consumption of this seed. During his research near Warburton (eastern Western Australia_approx. 750 km WSW of Alice Springs) with Ngaanyatjara people in 1981-82, this species was recorded as one, the seed of which was commonly consumed. Anecdotal evidence from Yankunytjatjara speakers (approx. 600 km ESE of Warburton), suggests it was a species only eaten when no other seed was available as it caused hair loss, the hair regrowing sometime later (Kalotas 1985). Pintupi people (approx. 400 km north of Warburton) also say it was regularly consumed but said nothing of hair loss (A. Kalotas pers. commun. 1994). It may be that the alopecia (hair loss) resulted from a combination of factors rather than the action of A. ligulata seed alone. If it was consumed amongst the Yankunytjatjara only when other foods were scarce, then malnourishment may have played a role in the loss of hair. The tropical American legume genera, Leucaena and Mimosa, both closely related to Acacia, cause hair loss, when consumed, as a result of the presence of the amino acid, mimosine (Mabberley 1987; Windholz et al. 1983). When Leucaena was first used as a stock feed in northern Australia it caused problems with cattle. This was remedied when a bacterium was isolated from the gut of cattle in Java and introduced into drinking troughs in Australia (A. Kalotas pers. commun. 1994). It is possible that similar toxic compounds are present in Australian acacias and care needs to be taken in the choice of species and their subsequent screening as a part of any development of a new crop. Brand and Maggiore (1991) state that testing for the presence of toxic compounds is mandatory if these plants are to be developed as new food products. Many legume seeds contain a variety of toxic compounds that are usually denatured by the application of heat. These compounds, if untreated, can disrupt intestinal absorption of nutrients and produce growth retardation (Brand and Maggiore 1991).

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceed...996/v3-228.html

includes tables of edible desert acacia seed.

t s t .

Edited February 8, 2009 by t st tantra

[t st tantra]

www are asking for acacia research projects,lol.......

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceed...996/v3-228.html

t s t .

[hebrew]

awesome information tst thanks for that keep me busy reading for a few days.

[Neoshaman]

awesome information tst thanks for that keep me busy reading for a few days.

Yeah definitely agree TST there are a few wattles I've recently started growing for researching some quite intresting information floating round out there for people who have a bit of time to search

[t st tantra]

some reports........

seeds were collected from 4 different populations of this acacia and tested at 4 seed smoked dose........all were about equivalent.......note this dose is active but not fully so........

bark was similar in effect but milder.

red sap can come from the tree as a fine powder......smokes well,active but less than seed and more than bark.

t s t .

[Bush Turkey]

whoops

Edited February 13, 2009 by subbo