Acacia berlandieri and A. rigidula

[Neoshaman]

Deleted already answered in previous threads , sorry

Edited January 14, 2009 by neoshaman

[mac]

i have not yet had a positive id for the acacias in my area as there are a few variety's i will try to get some pics & let you decide if it is the same species, it looks much the same as berlandieri

i do have a dry sample i will post a pic tonight but will try for a fresh one when possible

Edited January 13, 2009 by mac

[Neoshaman]

as per above

Edited January 14, 2009 by neoshaman

[shruman]

Another one takes the bait. UTSE plenty of info debunking it on here.

[Neoshaman]

Another one takes the bait. UTSE plenty of info debunking it on here.

thanks Shru , haven't really had a chance to look into it, UTSE : i know I know was just being lazy etc. etc.

[mindperformer]

what do you think on the analyses in which amphetamine, methamphetamine, mescaline, PMA, nicotine, dopamine and DMT were found in this southtexan Acacia?

Amphetamine and Methamph were found the first time in plants, and mescaline was found the first time outside the cactus family.

Shulgin was sceptical and bet on laboratory residues because he got no answer from the chemists.

I think the analyses were made correct and naively published, without being aware of the consequences. After realizing they didn't answer questions, so as not to make a big deal of it, because they fear, the knowledge could be used illegally...

BUT: According to my calculations 2kg plantmaterial would have to be extracted and fractionated (which is rather complicated) to get ONE Dose Amphetamine, so it would be very uneconomical. The discovery of these alkaloids is rather for scientific interest.

An extract from these acacias is already sold as fatburner on the internet and in low doses some other alkaloids in the extract could have this effect.

The studies:

http://catbull.com/alamut/Bibliothek/acacia_rigidula.pdf

http://catbull.com/alamut/Bibliothek/chem%20of%20texas%20acacias.pdf

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031942297002409

My plants:

Acacia rigidula:

Acacia berlandieri:

[mindperformer]

to the Dimitri-contents:

Acacia berlandieri- DMT- and Tryptamine- content:

# Dimethyltryptamine fall only, 75-114 ppb

# Tryptamine 90-124 ppb in spring, 287-334 ppb in fall

Acacia rigidula- DMT- and Tryptamine- and Phenethylamine- content:

# Dimethyltryptamine 323.8 ppm spring, 568.4 ppm fall

# Tryptamine 0.8 ppm spring, 21.2 ppm fall

# Phenethylamine 2314.6 spring, 5264.8 fall

Total Alkaloid-content from A. berlandieri: 0.28-0.66%

Acacia rigidula contains 27,5ppm mescaline (A. berlandieri: 35,7ppm) and 12,4ppm or 0,0012% (A. berlandieri: 11,5ppm) methamphetamine in late season.

For one dose Meth, one can would need 403 g of the dry leaves in the late season and is is very uneconomically to make the complex fractionation.

There was also found Nortriptyline for the first time in nature. It is a second generation tricyclic antidepressant marketed under the names Sensoval, Aventyl, Pamelor, Allegron and Nortrilen.

It inhibits the reuptake of norepinephrine and to a lesser extent serotonin and is an antagonist at muscarinic and 5-HT2A receptors. It is used in doses of 30-50mg / day.

Acacia berlandieri contains 71,5ppm in late season, so around 400g must be extracted and fractionated.....

Edited October 1, 2012 by mindperformer

[mindperformer]

Does somebody know more on root-nodule bacteria on Acacia rigidula?

This occurs on many Acacia for nitrogen fixation on poor soils:

http://aciar.gov.au/.../mn115part2.pdf

My A. berlandieri grows for years without problems but the A. rigidula always shows dieback in autumn, with an age of about 2 years. I grow it in front of the window. It developed no root nodules, so I thought it would be fine to put some bacterial powder on the roots + Trichoderma against pathogen fungi and repot it in still more sandy soil with more drainage because it is very sensible on overwatering and needs to be dry for extended periods, then I gave it a new place under 150W-LED with 13h light (at this time of the year we only have 8 hours day outside). I hope I can stop the dieback this time.

In replants in nature they also observed dieback:

http://cals.arizona....df/Survival.pdf

Edited September 30, 2012 by mindperformer

[Torsten]

If they had found ONE interesting unexpected alkaloid in these species then I would agree with you that the analysis was probably correct. But here you have the same team publishing two spectacular analyses showing the presence for the first time EVER in any plant of amphetamine and several derivatives. For the first time ever in fabaceae of nicotine and derivatices. For the first time ever in fabaceae cactus alkaloids such as mescaline and some dozen derivatives. These are the sort of discoveries that catapult whole careers, yet these guys won't even respond to one of the worlds most famous chemists?

The whole principle of science is that results have to be repeatable. I am quite certain that these results will not be repeated. if you are growing these species I would personally fund their analysis.

[mindperformer]

i don't know any chemist who analysed it completely and didn't find these questioned alkaloids. They don't respond because they don't want to propagate this find.

Stephania cepharantha also contains many classes of psychoactive compounds like morphine and THP.

Cathine and Cathinone was found in Chuchuhuasi (Maytenus krukovii)

GHB, Pregnanolone and Diazepam were found in plants too

Interesting thoughts from Shulgin:

http://www.salvia-community.net/index.php?showtopic=12154

read the post with the letter from Shulgin...

He didn't exclude the possibility that the plant contains amphetamines.

If it would have been a synthetic product from the analysis, they must have found Ephedrine also, but they didn't, because its synthesized in other ways in the plant. They indeed found a metabolite of Amphetamine.

so I think it was a correct analysis

Edited September 30, 2012 by mindperformer