Bush Turkey Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) 20x lotus extract i mean Edited June 17, 2011 by Bush Turkey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted January 4, 2009 i asked the owner for philosophers stone but he said that was illegal! he assured me that kava was legal! the cops keep a close eye on them cause one of there suppliers got done with shroom powder! what the owner of this shop believes is entirely up to him, and it is your choice to think what ever you want to belive, but at this forum we followe some rules, and to overstep those by individuals like you, might put the whole forum in danger, as such it's a big no, no!! one more time for you subbo, posting illigal sources is against forum rules!! so let this post be a reason for me to say.... some people throw away there joint if approached by police, and some keep puffing. but revealing illigal sources or selfdiscriminating posts can not be tolerated as they are like one individual forces all of us to keep holding a joint whilst beeing watched by the police.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bush Turkey Posted January 5, 2009 what the owner of this shop believes is entirely up to him, and it is your choice to think what ever you want to belive, but at this forum we followe some rules, and to overstep those by individuals like you, might put the whole forum in danger, as such it's a big no, no!!one more time for you subbo, posting illigal sources is against forum rules!! so let this post be a reason for me to say.... some people throw away there joint if approached by police, and some keep puffing. but revealing illigal sources or selfdiscriminating posts can not be tolerated as they are like one individual forces all of us to keep holding a joint whilst beeing watched by the police.... i had no idea it was illegal... cause its everywhere... well now i dont know wat to belive.. wont happen again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naja naja Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) If there is one piece of advice I can give u subbo. It would be to beleive Torsten. He seems to know the laws better than most highly paid laywers u could find. I too was unaware of W.A> sceduling previously, as I got sum over while it was still available from klin. Now I find out that I actually did wrong, just lucky I consumed it all shortly after it's arrival. Federal and state laws and not the same. Wats legal in one state isn't ness legal in another. The vendors will tell u watever u want to hear. And I can garauntee u that KAVA is most deff Illegal now in all states including WA! Maybe if u find a resource like this, don't go ruining it for every1, including urself by blabbing to the world/popo's on the internet about it, thereby effectively cutting off ur own arm. I had an argument with a vendor about the legality on THC if it were undetectable via GC/MS. Just cause u hide sumthing well enough, doesn't make it legal. If u try and use the defence that the guy who sold it to u said it was legal, the judge will laugh at u. Edited January 5, 2009 by naja naja Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teljkon Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) ada Edited December 19, 2021 by Teljkon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neoshaman Posted January 5, 2009 Hey guys anyone have experience with the sab 15x extract , I tried the flowers a number of times just wondering whats the best way to bring out the effects with this extract and what would be a recommended dose? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandalwood Posted January 8, 2009 over at edot...one of the more active chemist members did a TLC plate and put it in the edot downloads sections. it compares chemistry between the lilly and lotus flowers. it appears that lilly is a bit stronger in alkaloid content. he also erroneously reported the presense of apomorphine in both species. later he studied this occurence and realized that neither flower contains apomorphine...rather he found traces of that compound that formed by some sort of reaction with the processes he used. he reported this error quickly at edot. but still many people think that these flowers might contain apomorphine. its really too bad that they dont, seeing as how expensive apomorphine is when used for sexual disfunction. I have consumed all parts of the lotus flower. my favorite extract of the lotus is the stamen extract. with the blue lilly I like the flower petals. blue lilly has some stronger effect on me than the lotus. but they are both similiar. there is a company in thailand that sells a 20x extract for a decent price. I think the raw flowers are just as good a product. I use them sometimes in shrine offerings and puja offerings. David Spess in his book on soma claims that these species are one of the true identities of soma. he also claims that the flower has caused toxic effects in large doses in early research of the plant materials. he also claims that some species have provided visionary effects. having consumed large amounts of most parts of these flowers, in their dried state, I wonder if its possible. perhaps just a mild hypnotic effect is all that is needed for some meditators to increase into a full blown immersion experience? I sort of doubt that these flowers were used as major visionary drugs.......though they very well might have been used as reinforcing relaxants/stimulants in rituals anyway. Spess claims that the stems were probably squeezed of their sap, producing the strongest form of soma. I dont know where he gets his info. perhaps probably in one of the books listed in his bibliography that are not avialable unless you travel to foreign librarys and know how to read sanskrit... it made me wonder if drying the flowers is destroying a major psychoactive effect? I would think though, that some of the extracts produced of this plant might have more stem material than you would get buying the raw leaf. I have had the extract make me feel a bit nauseous and dizzy. perhaps the stem is the stronger portion of these flowers. the blue lilly flower slightly helps opiate withdrawl....but it does not block withdrawl . it does seem to help with the sweats. much like jujube seed/date does. having similiar chemistry I compare jujube dates to lotus/lilly flowers in that they seem to help withdrawl a bit. the lotus flower parts can be sold for consumption...most extracts/preperations of the lotus flowers are produced on FDA approved processors. the blue lilly flower however has not been formally introduced as a dietary supplment. I have gotten stronger effects from ziziphus spinosa seed extract, and even just jujube dates(ziziphus jujube) compared to the blue lilly...there is some comparable chemistry I think...their chemistry is different also...but they do share some aporphine type compounds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hebrew Posted January 8, 2009 yeah i like the ziziphus too it is really good for sleep, off topic i know but it really is a nice herb those seeds. i also get lotus hearts from the tcm shop, they are really bitter though, hard to drink but maybe a tincture might be the way to go with those? so jujube seed has similar chemistry to lotus/lilly? how interesting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hebrew Posted January 8, 2009 Alkaloids from Zizyphus spinosa (Chinese 'suan zao ren' = Japanese 'san-jo-in') seeds were examined for sedative activity. Compounds included sanjoinine, zizyphusine and nuciferine (a compound also found in the Chinese herb lotus- Nelumbo nucifera). Both sanjoinine A and nuciferine prolonged the sleeping time produced by hexobarbital. When the sanjoinine A was heated it was found to produce an isomer with even greater sedative activity. This may support the traditional practice of roasting or boiling the seeds before use. Han, Park and Park:Studies on the sedative alkaloids from Zizyphus spinosasemen (seed). Saengyak Hakhoechi 16(4), 233-8, 1986 The alkaloids sanjoinine A, nuciferine and their cogeners were found to have sedative activity. Upon heat treatment sanjoinine A produced sanjoinine Ah1, which had greater activity. This may support the traditional practice of roasting or boiling the seeds before use.Han and Park. Alkaloids are the sedative principles of the seeds of Zizyphus vulgaris var. spinosa. Arch. Pharmacal Res. 10(4), 203-7 1987. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted January 8, 2009 hey, sandalwood, i realy like your post, lovely to read and very informative, cheers for sharing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) he reported this error quickly at edot. but still many people think that these flowers might contain apomorphine. So are the presence of aporphine type alkaloids in dispute still or not? Surely 3,4-aporphine (nuciferine) is not in dispute in Nelumbo species? its really too bad that they dont, seeing as how expensive apomorphine is when used for sexual disfunction. Who said it had to be precisely apomorphine? Seems plenty of similar shaped alkaloids will fit in the brain nicely. Have some good notes on Mucuna pruriens in combination with Nelumbo extract ala synthetic L-DOPA + apomorphine given as a Parkinsons treatment amongst other things. I have consumed all parts of the lotus flower.my favorite extract of the lotus is the stamen extract. Agreed! There are some beautiful photos of extracts in progress if you can find them on the forum, I recall a giant glass container full of amber liquid that inspired me. David Spess in his book on soma claims that these species are one of the true identities of soma.he also claims that the flower has caused toxic effects in large doses in early research of the plant materials. he also claims that some species have provided visionary effects. ... Spess claims that the stems were probably squeezed of their sap, producing the strongest form of soma. Plenty of differing claims on the Soma front. Personally I feel neither of these plants fits the bill but we will probably never know one way or another! Other members of the forum have posited the possibility that the plant sap might have some concentrated effect similar to the concentrating effect of poppy sap. But as far as I know and through my own tests, stamens remain the most potent section of the plant. I would love to try some dried sap with ground stamens rubbed in! the blue lilly flower slightly helps opiate withdrawl....but it does not block withdrawl . One of our members here recorded very distinctly how the use of Nymphaea messed up his daily methadone dose causing the sweats and worse! What do you think of that? I have gotten stronger effects from ziziphus spinosa seed extract, and even just jujube dates(ziziphus jujube) compared to the blue lilly...there is some comparable chemistry I think...their chemistry is different also...but they do share some aporphine type compounds. Worth a thread on its own. I will try and do some reasearch on this one! Edited January 16, 2009 by Sina Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hebrew Posted January 16, 2009 i have read that the stamens are the strongest then i have also read that the plumule is the strongest, personally i think the plumule is pretty kickarse but hell bitter, these days i like to combine the two. and am playing around with both stamens and plumules in combination with zyziphus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted February 19, 2011 Some people have been asking about this and whilst trying to find friendly's nelumbo thread I thought I'd bring this back up for the newer members. Enjoy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bert&Ernie Posted February 19, 2011 hi guys this is a very interesting/informative topic any one know where i can buy some live nelumbo or Nempha plants or even seeds Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FancyPants Posted February 19, 2011 Thanks, Mesc funnily enough I'd just poured myself a glass of milk with some butterscotch schnapps I'd been infusing with n. caerulea for around 2 weeks, and then I see this thread. Tastes beautiful and really potent for me to notice effects with an opiate tolerance. It's been ages since I had any flowers. Can't believe I'd forgotten something like this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted February 19, 2011 My pleasure as I'm receiving free seeds and remembered this thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted February 19, 2011 nice thread, cheers, i was going to get some nymphaea to help with sleep problems, i've seen some teas around with nymphaea in it (plus others) do you think a few cups of tea at night would do the trick to help with not sleeping, or would an extract be better? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mud Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) 1 tsp of pink lotus (stamen) in a tea was actually comparable to the greatest heights found through other more conventional, 'potent' entheogens. It was very dreamy, but in every way as profound as the insight mushroom visions have provided. so are there no big differences between the lily, and the lotus? Might I be right in concluding there are only maybe 3 different species of pink water lilys including variants that grow in Australia? Is there any reason not to consume the various parts in teas or tincture, rather than smoking it? They have a beautiful scent. Edited February 20, 2011 by mud Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planter Posted February 21, 2011 Nymphaea seeds are a pain in the ass, be very patient, and then be more patient. also be very very careful when planting, and soak them in a small dish with water or wet paper towel for a bit first as the seeds may have a tendency to float otherwise Nelumbo are super easy to grow, just dont forget to scarify the seeds Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted February 22, 2011 nice thread, cheers, i was going to get some nymphaea to help with sleep problems, i've seen some teas around with nymphaea in it (plus others) do you think a few cups of tea at night would do the trick to help with not sleeping, or would an extract be better? If your a smoker of either kind,add a few stamens.The flowers work pretty good too......it's been sooooo long I'm hangin to get some dried flowers after my wallet stops drying up LOL I actually found nelumbo stamens to be stronger,but calea made to about a 5 times extract smoked immediately(I mean in bed,smoke,put pipe down lay back) to be great...another one I need to get back in the garden. Scarification's easy,just scrape on the concrete a little.Nymph seeds should pop up in a glass of water easy enough if fresh (make sure to change the water daily!) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendly Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) How nice to see this first when returning after a long abscence. Edited February 28, 2011 by friendly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendly Posted March 17, 2011 Here's the link to the site selling 'astral effusion' blue lily oil for $100.00 per ml. Avarice disguised as new age enlightenment for sale. I'm surprised they're still up after more than 2 years. http://64.33.33.18/herbal/lotus.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krazykungfu Posted April 18, 2011 Random question to anyone who's had experience with these plants: Firstly a bit of background info - after reading this thread from cover to cover, lotus was said to have a synergistic relationship with MJ and/or alcohol. So off someone went and tried 15g of dried lotus made into a tea after consuming some MJ (probably too much but this person couldn't yet wind back time to balance things out) - not too much happened - something was going on, and they felt unusually tired the next day, but nothing in your face and this person is not yet ready to write this plant off.... So that leaves alcohol but the thing is this someone is not a fan of that man made poison stuff (yeah, they really don't like it ;) ) but they were going to push past their grievances anyway so they soaked another 15g in vodka. After a week their better judgement took over and they evaporated off all the vodka and were left with an extract... In short has anyone had experience with a similar extract and is just munching the result all down in one go a good idea? Because that's the plan at the moment.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted April 19, 2011 i would try to hot knife the material, if one is a smoker this methode might be interressting. if the material dries out enough, and can be vaporised, that is... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mooms Posted June 17, 2011 wrt the lotus wine, do the leaves need to be strained out before drinking the wine? and.. can the leaves be eaten or consumed in some way? i dont want to be wasteful Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
