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The above are some pics of the current conflict.

Just thought I'd post because I notice that we often criticise the lack of freedoms we have, or the new freedoms the gov takes from us, I have had many a rant about drug policy and the internet censorship so I know I'm guilty.

But seeing pics like these makes me realise at least for a moment, that we have it good.

That we have the freedom to not be killed by random assailants, or bombs in the sky placed over my country because of a war between my governments which may or may not be any cause i support, but whether i do or not im still put at risk of death.

The man under the building rubble is it, nearly brings me to tears that people can treat each other that way over something really quite petty considering the consequences it has had.

So take a moment to consider how lucky you are, and how much we really have here.

(Also, I understand that we can't really compare our circumstances to the circumstances over there because they are on such different planes, and as such I will continue to bitch and moan about our government's approach to many situations...but sometimes it helps to get some perspective)

Peace

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Pics

The above are some pics of the current conflict.

Just thought I'd post because I notice that we often criticise the lack of freedoms we have, or the new freedoms the gov takes from us, I have had many a rant about drug policy and the internet censorship so I know I'm guilty.

But seeing pics like these makes me realise at least for a moment, that we have it good.

That we have the freedom to not be killed by random assailants, or bombs in the sky placed over my country because of a war between my governments which may or may not be any cause i support, but whether i do or not im still put at risk of death.

The man under the building rubble is it, nearly brings me to tears that people can treat each other that way over something really quite petty considering the consequences it has had.

So take a moment to consider how lucky you are, and how much we really have here.

(Also, I understand that we can't really compare our circumstances to the circumstances over there because they are on such different planes, and as such I will continue to bitch and moan about our government's approach to many situations...but sometimes it helps to get some perspective)

Peace

Well said.

We should NEVER forget where we live.. and how GOOD we have it...makes other discussions elsewhere here seem trivial and selfish when you realise what shit is happening to those less fortunate than us.

H.

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Humanitarian aid boat crewed buy international doctors and

peace activists an Australian school teacher :o (USA) Cynthia McKinney

Cynthia is a former U.S. Congresswoman from Georgia, and the 2008 Green Party presidential candidate. She is traveling to Gaza to assess the ongoing conflict. :o

attacked buy Israeli navy in international waters

this is really fucked up! why? ....and nothing will happen they will get away with this

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRghMmgQ1kA [url/]

A list of

Civilians aboard the Dignity Attacked by the Israeli military:

(UK) Denis Healey, Captain

Captain of the Dignity, Denis has been involved with boats for 45 years, beginning with small fishing boats in Portsmouth. He learned to sail while atschool and has been part of the sea ever since. He's a certified yachtmaster and has also worked on heavy marine equipment from yachts to large dredgers. This is his fourth trip to Gaza.

(Greece) Nikolas Bolos, First Mate

Nikolas is a chemical engineer and human rights activist. He has served as a crewmember on several Free Gaza voyages, including the first one in August.

(Jordan) Othman Abu Falah

Othman is a senior producer with Al-Jazeera Television. He will remain in Gaza to report on the ongoing military onslaught.

(Australia) Renee Bowyer

Renee is a schoolteacher and human rights activist. She will remain in Gaza to do human rights monitoring and reporting.

(Ireland) Caoimhe Butterly

Caoimhe is a reknowned human rights activist and Gaza Coordinator for the Free Gaza Movement. She will be remaining in Gaza to do human rights monitoring, assist with relief efforts, and work on project development with Free Gaza.

(Cyprus) Ekaterini Christodulou

Ekaterini is a well-known and respected freelance journalist in Cyprus. She is traveling to Gaza to report on the conflict.

(Sudan) Sami El-Haj

Sami is a former detainee at Guantanamo Bay, and head of the human rights section at Al-Jazeera Television. He will remain in Gaza to report on the ongoing military onslaught.

(UK) Dr. David Halpin

Dr. Halpin is an experienced orthopaedic surgeon, medical professor, and ship's captain. He has organized humanitarian relief efforts in Gaza on several occasions with the Dove and Dolphin. He is traveling to Gaza to volunteer in hospitals and clinics.

(Germany) Dr. Mohamed Issa

Dr. Issa is a pediatric surgeon from Germany. He is traveling to Gaza to volunteer in hospitals and clinics.

(UK/Tunisia) Fathi Jaouadi

Fathi is a television producer and human rights activist. He will remain in Gaza to do human rights monitoring and reporting.

(USA) Cynthia McKinney

Cynthia is a former U.S. Congresswoman from Georgia, and the 2008 Green Party presidential candidate. She is traveling to Gaza to assess the ongoing conflict.

(Cyprus) Martha Paisi

Martha is a senior research fellow and experienced human rights activist. She is traveling to Gaza to do human rights work and to assist with humanitarian relief efforts.

(UK) Karl Penhaul

Karl Penhaul is a video correspondent for CNN, based out of Bogotá, Colombia. Appointed to this position in February 2004, he covers breaking news around the world utilizing CNN's new laptop-based 'Digital Newsgathering' system. He is traveling to Gaza to report on the ongoing conflict.

(Iraq) Thaer Shaker

Thaer is a cameraman with Al-Jazeera television. He will remain in Gaza to report on the ongoing military onslaught.

(Cyprus) Dr. Elena Theoharous, MP

Dr. Theoharous is a surgeon and a Member of the Cypriot Parliament. She is traveling to Gaza to assess the ongoing conflict, assist with humanitarian relief efforts, and volunteer in hospitals.

###

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This is why I voted for McKinney, one of very few american politicians that has the balls and moral strength to do things like put herself in danger to highlight israels fanatical genocidal violence. She also pushed for an inquiry into the US governments role in 9-11.

The people I vote for never have a chance of winning :lol:

nothing will happen they will get away with this
For those of you who have carpel tunnel syndrome or arthritis or anything theres a faster way to type this, simply spell it "US ally".

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For those of you who have carpel tunnel syndrome or arthritis or anything theres a faster way to type this, simply spell it "US ally".

If you knew the reality of the matter you would be typing "US = Israeli pawn"

"She also pushed for an inquiry into the US governments role in 9-11".

More importantly, how 'bout an inquiry into Israel's prior knowledge &/or involvement in the 911 attacks? VERY IMPORTANT BANNED NEWS REPORT

"this is really fucked up! why? ....and nothing will happen they will get away with this"

Now that's a question that should be asked more often!! How bout asking why they get away with flouting so many international laws, the Geneva convension, etc and kill with impunity? Or why appartheid was condemned in south africa but not israel? Ask yourself why the nation of israel even exists (no one here has been able to give me one good reason why it should), what is the real reason behind most of the major wars in recent history? who is the US congress really listening to? What forces exert the greatest influence on US foreign policy? Who controls the US monetary system (and Australia's, Englands, etc)?? Who controls US intelligence? Why does the media rarely criticise israel and even sensor material critical of israel (as clearly demonstrated above)? So many questions, so many idiots quick to throw around the word "anti semite" but so few answers..

Whilst where on the topic of israel intentionally attacking boats and getting away with it maybe you should also investigate THE BOMBING OF THE USS LIBERTY

post-4418-1230747006.jpg

post-4418-1230747006.jpg

post-4418-1230747006.jpg

Edited by baphomet

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^^^

Anti-Semite

you don't understand baphomet, it's a very delicate situation blablabla... seriously though, this is one issue I'm quick to get righteously indignant about. But I shouldn't lest my words are used to sue me somehow... hope this anonymity thing serves well.

I don't understand how Israelis can stand for their country being such an aggressor. ..with even basic understanding of cause and effect you'd think that if your own government keeps fucking up your neighbours shit, said neighbours just might retaliate? Religious indoctrination? are all Israelis zionists? and who gives a shit what religious fanatics think is right? we usually bomb their country, this time we're helping them.

and what's this "we're not attacking civillians but it's their fault for using them as human shields" ... ok so in how many hostage situations does one kill indiscriminately so that at least the baddies are dead too? seriously most bullshit excuse ever. And some Israeli foreign minister was very telling of the real game plan through his denial of it: "Nobody wants this to keep on escalating indefinitely".

Shalom / Salam

I'm not an anti semite cuz I love both jews and arabs and the rest, or do jews have exclusivity of the semitic language family.

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My understanding was that this little bout of battle was started by not the Israeli's but rather the palestinian's...who sent 80 odd rockets into populated areas (apparently not an uncommon thing along with firing practice at the border), so Israel sent in some planes. Retaliation is a bitch when you fuck with a country who have far more military technology (thanks Mr. Bush).

Peace

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My understanding was that this little bout of battle was started by not the Israeli's but rather the palestinian's...who sent 80 odd rockets into populated areas (apparently not an uncommon thing along with firing practice at the border), so Israel sent in some planes. Retaliation is a bitch when you fuck with a country who have far more military technology (thanks Mr. Bush).

Peace

I don't understand why Palestinians are doing that, but it sure sounds like they started this latest round of festivities... it reminds me of the Georgian attack on Russian soldiers, weird as!

Sorry to disappoint any Jew haters.

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"My understanding was that this little bout of battle was started by not the Israeli's but rather the palestinian's...who sent 80 odd rockets into populated areas (apparently not an uncommon thing along with firing practice at the border), so Israel sent in some planes"

Your understanding is limited (and you call yourself "mind expansion" :P:lol: )

"I don't understand why Palestinians are doing that.. Sorry to disappoint any Jew haters."

Why would any "jew haters" be disappointed at you telling everyone that you don't know what your talking about? :unsure:

"Retaliation is a bitch when you fuck with a country who have far more military technology (thanks Mr. Bush)"

You mean murder, genocide and oppression is a bitch when you are living under the rule of a terrorist apartheid state that should not exist who has stolen weapons technology from american patent holders and refuses to pay them anything?

Edited by baphomet

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LOL Baph...ever the challenging debater.. :P

I'd love to buy you a beer one day dude.

H.

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Sounds good Hunab, I'm down for that :)

Let me know if your ever in Melbourne.

(no discussion of politics or religion though :lol:)

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If you knew the reality of the matter you would be typing "US = Israeli pawn"

"She also pushed for an inquiry into the US governments role in 9-11".

More importantly, how 'bout an inquiry into Israel's prior knowledge &/or involvement in the 911 attacks? VERY IMPORTANT BANNED NEWS REPORT

"this is really fucked up! why? ....and nothing will happen they will get away with this"

Now that's a question that should be asked more often!! How bout asking why they get away with flouting so many international laws, the Geneva convension, etc and kill with impunity? Or why appartheid was condemned in south africa but not israel? Ask yourself why the nation of israel even exists (no one here has been able to give me one good reason why it should), what is the real reason behind most of the major wars in recent history? who is the US congress really listening to? What forces exert the greatest influence on US foreign policy? Who controls the US monetary system (and Australia's, Englands, etc)?? Who controls US intelligence? Why does the media rarely criticise israel and even sensor material critical of israel (as clearly demonstrated above)? So many questions, so many idiots quick to throw around the word "anti semite" but so few answers..

Whilst where on the topic of israel intentionally attacking boats and getting away with it maybe you should also investigate THE BOMBING OF THE USS LIBERTY

i have no problem with Jews whatsoever yet i will probably be labeled a Jew hater simply because I ask why?

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Well Baphomet if you were as perceptive as you seem to always be saying you are, maybe you would have not just snipped out half of what I said, in which I was leaving a door open to the idea that there is more going on here than meets the eye.

Also, I've asked you this before, but can I remind you it is fairly unhelpful to intersperse quotes from different people in your replies... it makes it sound like we're saying things we didn't.

Anyway, please enlighten me so that I have some idea what I'm talking about, I am so lost in the dark without your well reasoned arguments to guide me.

______________

tardistestpilot, why would you think that? I was referring to people that express anti-Jewish sentiment, not people who ask questions or talk about actions carried out by corrupt governments.

There's a big difference between being Jewish and being Zionist, the problem is Baphomet seems to willfully ignore this important distinction, and blames entire people groups for the wrongdoing of some of their members.

It's all a little "Baphling"

Edited by Sublime Crime

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Yea If it's any consolation, some jews actually agree with me, here's proof: http://video.google.com.au/videosearch?q=r...p;oq=rabbi+wei#

(all though what they don't mention is that they think god will let them rule the world from israel under a world government as soon as the moschiach arrives :puke:)

SC it sounds to me like you are accusing me of misrepresenting what you said by omission which I do not believe to be the case, I'm looking back at what you wrote and it seems pretty clear to me what you were getting at.

I assumed that people could tell that the first quote was directed at mind expansion cause I quoted him and addressed him by name :blink:

"There's a big difference between being Jewish and being Zionist, the problem is Baphomet seems to willfully ignore this important distinction, and blames entire people groups for the wrongdoing of some of their members."

I think your talking shit!! Please back up the accusation that you have just made by quoting me, thanks.

As far as I remember I have always made a clear distinction between political zionism and judaism, but still not neglected the fact that the vast majority of those who identify themselves as "jews" are zionists and jews still think they will rule the whole world from palestine as stated in the torah, just not till the moschiach arrives, same shit, just that some jews think it's best to wait to rule the world while others obviously got sick of waiting.

PS: There's still a thread in which I am waiting for someone to explain to me what's wrong with "antisemitism" but no one here has been able to point this out to me yet, are you able to?

Are you an anti zionist?

Are you against homophobia and the rape and murder of innocent women and children? Animal sacrifice? Genocide? Infanticide? .. ?? Cause This would mean that you oppose the teachings of judaisms holiest book (the torah). If so you are an anti semite in the general definition of the word!

If you do oppose these things then do you have the strength of character that it takes to say so? Or are you just another piss weak politically correct moron?

Edited by baphomet

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______________

tardistestpilot, why would you think that? I was referring to people that express anti-Jewish sentiment, not people who ask questions or talk about actions carried out by corrupt governments.

There's a big difference between being Jewish and being Zionist, the problem is Baphomet seems to willfully ignore this important distinction, and blames entire people groups for the wrongdoing of some of their members.

It's all a little "Baphling"

 

Im sorry sublime crime I was not out to offend you or any person but do find some people think im an antisemitic simply

because I do ask prickly questions sometimes

and it is also good to see that you do know the difference between jewish and zionist

Edited by tardistestpilot

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My understanding was that this little bout of battle was started by not the Israeli's but rather the palestinian's...who sent 80 odd rockets into populated areas (apparently not an uncommon thing along with firing practice at the border), so Israel sent in some planes.

Israel often does the "they started it" routine, when the actual facts are murkier, to say the least.

From Uri Averny, Peace Now Israeli, who knows a bit about this situation: (counterpunch.org today)

"As a matter of fact, the cease-fire did not collapse, because there was no real cease-fire to start with. The main requirement for any cease-fire in the Gaza Strip must be the opening of the border crossings. There can be no life in Gaza without a steady flow of supplies... It paralyzes life in the Gaza Strip: eliminating most sources of employment, pushing hundreds of thousands to the brink of starvation, stopping most hospitals from functioning, disrupting the supply of electricity and water.

Then there came the small provocations which were designed to get Hamas to react. After several months, in which hardly any Qassam rockets were launched, an army unit was sent into the Strip “in order to destroy a tunnel that came close to the border fence”. From a purely military point of view, it would have made more sense to lay an ambush on our side of the fence. But the aim was to find a pretext for the termination of the cease-fire, in a way that made it plausible to put the blame on the Palestinians. And indeed, after several such small actions, in which Hamas fighters were killed, Hamas retaliated with a massive launch of rockets, and – lo and behold – the cease-fire was at an end. Everybody blamed Hamas." (emphasis mine)

Retaliation is a bitch when you fuck with a country who have far more military technology (thanks Mr. Bush).

Peace

Collective punishment is the issue. If the situation involved anyone but Israel, no one would be saying "tough luck, buddy -- payback's a bitch". [not saying YOU're saying this -- but it's oft expressed on op-ed pages here] I think the stats are 3 dead Israelis, 400 dead Palestinians. And it's not just Bush but 60 years of American taxpayers who have funded this love fest of religious joy, peace, understanding.

I'm getting sick of it and so are lots of others, and the usual excuses just don't resonate anymore.

See also:

http://www.counterpunch.org/loewenstein12292008.html

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Well Bapho I did say "my understanding of", I could be wrong I've not looked into it all that much.

But please, enlighten me about the situation and let me know why it is acceptable for the palestinian's to launch rockets but israel can't get fire back (in this particular most recent sparring match).

Also, my understanding is that the Israeli's are supported by american military supplies, not stolen weapons as you suggest.

Peace

Oh and Rizla, the situation is always murky, has been for a long time now. I could argue that it was still the Palestinian's that started it by provokingly trying to build a tunnel into Israeli territory. I'm not saying that is the starting factor but with a situation like this that seems to run in never ending circles one has to pick the big provocations (like launching a volley of rockets into civilian territory for example).

Edited by MindExpansion

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I read somewhere more than once... that some of the funding for some of the weapons in Palestine...came from the sale of opium from Afghanistan..the humble poppy flowering away in the Afghan sun one minute...next thing being harvested for opium for sale and the purchase of deadly weapons.

http://opioids.com/afghanistan/index.html

H.

post-4860-1230937331_thumb.jpg

opium460.jpg

opium460.jpg

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I wrote this lastnight but couldn't get online for some reason. Looks like you've edited your post a bit since then Baphomet, but as far as I can tell it's just to add things like "you're full of shit" so hopefully this still makes sense:

it seems pretty clear to me what you were getting at.

Yeah, I suppose you would know what I meant better than me, because you read a sentence I wrote on the internet. Funny how you always seem to know what I am really saying, but my explanations don't really count.

I assumed that people could tell that the first quote was directed at mind expansion cause I quoted him and addressed him by name

You anachronistically sandwiched a quote by me between two by MindExpansion, and made no distinction between us. Just swallow your pride and stop acting like such a dick.

Baphomet... blames entire people groups for the wrongdoing of some of their members."

Please back up the accusation that you have just made by quoting me, thanks.

Fuck I couldn't be bothered really, but your posts are so full of this stuff it's pretty easy to find a few good ones:

white people in general have become a weak useless bunch of politically correct morons with a misplaced sense of guilt! That is why they allow their kids to listen to music that likens them to "white meat" and promotes the indiscriminate killing of white people! But they throw a fucking hissy fit when anyone says anything about black people (whether it is true or not), they promote racism against whites and in the form of things like the 'Affirmative Action Program'!

Opressed black people"? GTF outa here! Slavery ended 143 years ago! they have no one to blame but themselves!! ...I am generalising and I know it but if the black people in these neighborhoods were a little smarter, more honest and hard working, had a stronger sense of morals, stopped stealing from and murdering their fellow man and stopped selling crack to their mothers, then maybe they would get somewhere?

"what are rappers" Glorified petty criminals! Pure filth!! The slime at the bottom of the human gene pool!!!

Some people (including one of my best friends) consider themselves to be 'jewish' by birth even though they claim they are not religious and know nothing about the religion. The whole concept of them being part of this master race due to birth right stems from religious judaism which makes them kind of stupid but my problem is not with them it is with the religion itself! I do not consider these people jews! Someone will no doubt say to me "who are you to define who is a jew and who is not?" and I do not want to get into semantics, let me just make this clear, I see this religion as a disease and my problem is with the infection not the unknowing host!

Does everyone agree with the FACT that islamophobia is a perfectly rational fear and a logical reaction to a hateful, prejudice, backwards, dangerous belief system? And likewise anti semitism is a perfectly rational reaction to a prejudiced, racist, genocidal, religion?

Does everyone agree with the FACT that islam is completely incompatible with our way of life and muslims should not be allowed into this country?

Does anyone still believe that muslims are (quote) "peaceful, have strong morals and are disgusted/ashamed at suicide bombers etc."

If so I would like hear what it is that makes you believe such bullshit?

I'm sure you have some very intricate explanations for all of these, revolving around the idea that you are always right, and after past discussions I don't really hold much hope you will change your racist views, but I thought I'd post them so other people are quite clear about where you are coming from.

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Well Bapho I did say "my understanding of", I could be wrong I've not looked into it all that much.

But please, enlighten me about the situation and let me know why it is acceptable for the palestinian's to launch rockets but israel can't get fire back (in this particular most recent sparring match).

Also, my understanding is that the Israeli's are supported by american military supplies, not stolen weapons as you suggest.

Peace

Oh and Rizla, the situation is always murky, has been for a long time now. I could argue that it was still the Palestinian's that started it by provokingly trying to build a tunnel into Israeli territory. I'm not saying that is the starting factor but with a situation like this that seems to run in never ending circles one has to pick the big provocations (like launching a volley of rockets into civilian territory for example).

The polarization of the issue is an intrinsic part of the problem... you need to be left or right or pro something and anti something else...

Let's be pro-love and anti-stupidity.

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ME, yes it is circular, isn't it... and really, I'm not pointing anything at you, just trying to figure it out in

my own head, and I appreciate your thread and attempting to discuss this in a dignified way (which seems

to be near impossible on this issue.)

To my mind, the biggest single provocation is...(OK, bypassing an illegal-in int'l law-since-1967 occupation of Gaza)...but the blockade since 2006 when Hamas was elected.

The Israeli appologists will say this is justified because Hamas are "terrorists". This may be true, but then, it was true ofthe zionist group Irgun, who bombed the King David Hotel in 1947, killing 97 (? wiki ref) people. And many other groups who now hold power around the world, whose past terrorism is whitewashed.

No electricity, food, medical care, water, etc., year after year, in a caged human zoo seems to me a provocation.

Another thing to remember is that this current carpet bombing is taking place right after an American election, with

upcoming elections in Israel. I've heard the polls show the electorate swinging to the right. So this incident may

have PR justifications along with the usual, eternal, "cusrsed is Haman, blessed is Mordechai", bronze age "eye for an eye" justifications.

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The polarization of the issue is an intrinsic part of the problem... you need to be left or right or pro something and anti something else...

Let's be pro-love and anti-stupidity.

well said.

anyway back to semantics about semites, what exactly is the distinction between a zionist and a jew? ..and then i mean a believer of judaism, not a born into it sort of jew. AFAIK Judaism is an ancient religion possibly inspired by some higher intelligences with its freakily designed alphanumeric holography which is seriously well trippy. Zionism is.. a political movement masquerading as religion yeah?

I mean I'm sure the settlers risking their lives to prove their point take their martydom very seriously, religiously even, but the motivation of the movement... seems far from spiritual, if these are the consistent results of it, i mean it's one evil fucking spirit!

This form of religion is as far from a love of god as can get, where masses are given a placebo of spiritual enlightenment and righteousness, demanding god return their promised land. For clever people that have played this game for far too long, or stole the cheats from the big guy, it is far easier to manipulate through fear, fear of god and repercussions, fear of neighbors and their strangeness, fear of the other, the alien, the unfamiliar, which makes the common origins and living spaces of the two people all the more rediculous, creating a division where there should be none.

"It all was so cleverly done, like trying to hide the sunlight from the sun" <-- something like that.

one love, shalom, salam, namaste, om, how many more can I say? do these words carry enough of a +ive vibration to affect such closed minds?

Learn to love god and share this meaningless, non-sensical, pointless playground with everyone. Boom Shiva!

P.S. I always thought Zionism was a spiritual movement, of returning to the promised land, being a state of mind, and the return of the messiah being the re-unification with god and a moment of collective christ consciousness. People need to stop taking a symbolic book literally and learn to appreciate the real world more symbolically.

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People need to stop taking a symbolic book literally and learn to appreciate the real world more symbolically.

Right on dude that is some real shit.

Interesting that the eye for an eye thing comes up, but as the saying goes, 'you want to take an eye for an eye but soon the whole world will be blind.'

This sort of thing is so uncool, it is a problem with religious beliefs instilling a sense of 'right' to something, in this case the homeland.

But realistically is it likely to end? No.

Lately my views on the world have been becoming darker and darker, as I realise the sad and disgusting state of humanity, just today I overheard a homeless lady telling a friend on the street, in tears, that she had fallen and hit her head (in the middle of a crowded sydney street) and everyone had simply laughed. What the fuck sort of creation are we, any creationist here I laugh at, because if it was your god that made us, then he did a fucking terrible job, and if we were made in his image then I have no idea why anyone looks up to such an asshole. We, as a species, successfully rape, pillage, destroy, suck dry and abandon everything we can for our own benefit.

I can no longer really see the hope, the odd glimpse pops up, but then i remember the overwhelming negativity that we cultivate day to day. This sort of negativity manifests all over the world in different forms relevant to the culture and society of that area.

I think slipknot said it well, people = shit.

My hope now is that when we burn out as a species, be it through the environmental changes, or just through our own selfmade apocalypse, the next group of walking monkeys will be a better peoples, because we have thus far failed ourselves and our brethren.

End rant

(Note: my opinions are subject to rapid change with my mood, so maybe when I'm not feeling so down you'll see a post with some more positive vibes but sorry, for now I can't generate too many as I am overcome by the negativity this city presents me with.)

Peace

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Dude, remember when John Safran tried to join the KKK on the grounds that he didn't practice Judaism? They said no because Jewishness is ethnoreligious, which means it is a race as well as a religion, so clear lines are difficult to draw. It's also really important to realize that Judaism is a diverse religion, including many practicing Jews who are not Zionists.

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Fuck I couldn't be bothered really, but your posts are so full of this stuff it's pretty easy to find a few good ones:

I'm sure you have some very intricate explanations for all of these, revolving around the idea that you are always right, and after past discussions I don't really hold much hope you will change your racist views, but I thought I'd post them so other people are quite clear about where you are coming from.

So you go through and pick out sections of my posts from various different threads and make some out of context fucked up collage in an effort to make me look like a racist? How tasteless.

And ironically it comes straight after you whinging about me "sandwiching" your quote in with one from ME, your on hell of a hypocrite!

Fact of the matter is that I don't know how to quote more than one person at a time and I don't know how to quote more than one thing from one person on one page so I just put the quote that I want to respond to in bold, check all my posts and you will see that I have never quoted more than one thing at a time unless it's in bold, all I know how to do is tick the quote box and reply. Don't act like I have been trying to deceive people into thinking you wrote something you didn't cause it's just not true, if anyone is following this thread they can plainly see who wrote what cause the posts are directly above mine, I never put your name to anyone elses words, the last quote of ME's that I responded too I edited on there and didn't think about moving it up next to his, big fucking deal.. get over it.

So let's look at the bullshit that you are spreading here:

"Looks like you've edited your post a bit since then Baphomet, but as far as I can tell it's just to add things like "you're full of shit"

Actually I said that "I think your talking shit" and it's now more true than ever. And that's not all I edited, I asked you to state your position on zionism, homophobia, etc after making it clear that you would be classed as an anti semite by many people, it was an effort to see what you were made of and if you had any balls whatsoever, not so apparently since all you did was try to ignore it and create a diversion and hope that it would go away.

Here it is again:

"PS: There's still a thread in which I am waiting for someone to explain to me what's wrong with "antisemitism" but no one here has been able to point this out to me yet, are you able to?

Are you an anti zionist?

Are you against homophobia and the rape and murder of innocent women and children? Animal sacrifice? Genocide? Infanticide? .. ?? Cause This would mean that you oppose the teachings of judaisms holiest book (the torah). If so you are an anti semite in the general definition of the word!

If you do oppose these things then do you have the strength of character that it takes to say so? OR ARE YOU JUST ANOTHER PISS WEAK POLITICALLY CORRECT MORON?"

Well I guess by the fact that you didn't answer, in effect you answered my last question anyway.

You called me a racist and said you wanted to show everyone where I was coming from.. It seems your only capable of making deceptive ad hominem attacks against me, Your a liar and I challenge you to go back to those threads that you quoted me on and prove that I'm a racist, I don't think your capable, in fact I don't think you have the balls or the level of knowledge or intelligence required for you to debate in this or any of those other threads which is why you resort to labeling people.

"There's a big difference between being Jewish and being Zionist, the problem is Baphomet seems to willfully ignore this important distinction, and blames entire people groups for the wrongdoing of some of their members."

Are you willing to admit that you were talking shit yet? If you make an accusation like that you should be willing and able to back it up!! It's not enough to just post some shit from other threads about rappers and muslims to try to make me look racsit, can you back up your accusation or not? Put up or shut up!

That video from rabbi Weiss was in my post before you accused me of that, I just had to edit it afterwards to take into account your post that wasn't there before I started typing but I never edited the video into it, it was there to prove to tardiespilot that some jews oppose israel too and this does not make you "anti jewish".

Here's another recent quote of mine that you conveniently left out:

"The torah & the talmud both forbid the creation of an israeli state until their sky fairy sends them a moshiach who will ride through a brick wall on a donkey so the current israeli state is against jewish law!! The vast majority of jews today however are either too stupid to know what their religion actually says about this or just choose to ignore the will of "god" and support zionism."

Quote (The Dude): "I always thought Zionism was a spiritual movement, of returning to the promised land, being a state of mind, and the return of the messiah being the re-unification with god and a moment of collective christ consciousness"

I don't see how christ consciousness would come into it seeing that according to the talmud, jesus was no more than a sorcerer who's mother was a promiscuous haridresser named miriam. Jews don't believe in the divinity of Jesus.

What they do believe however is that god gave their ancestor (abraham) the nation of israel a long time ago so therefore they have a birthright to this land. The torah says that they should be in exile by god living amongst the nations of the world until god sends them a moschiach, then they think that god will give them the land of israel again (which is already somene elses home) and from here they will rule the world.

It is commonly believed that modern zionism is a political movement that was started by atheists, that is the official story but if you look deeper you will see that there is evidence to suggest otherwise. There are many branches of judaism and some jews believe that the moschiach has already arrived, such as the sabbateans. This would mean that it is permissable for them to try to start a world government (as described in the torah) from israel from which they believe they will rule the world (sound familiar? :lol:).

(this is where it starts to get really wierd)

Contrary to popular belief, the sign on the israeli flag has nothing to do with mainstream judaim!! It is an occult symbol going back at least to the time of king Solomon if not before, it is believed to be the star of remphan (or moloch).

This god (moloch) was spoken about in the torah and it is said that some of the israelites used to sacrifice their children to him, moloch often took the form of a large stone owl, According to the torah the worship of him was the reason why god sent the israelites into exile.

Acts: 7:13:

"You took up the tabernacle of Moloch, the star of your god Rephan, the figures which you made to worship. I will carry you away beyond Babylon."

Quite a coincidence considering the fact that many world leaders including presidents Nixon, Reagan, Bush, etc meet at a club called 'The Bohemian Grove' where they apparently engage in a mock human sacrifice to a large stone owl, I'm not sure that all the people there know the symbolism and significance of what they are doing and probably just think it's just a bit of fun but it's gotta make you wonder who's running the show?

So by now you think I'm mad right? here's a news report from 1981 http://video.google.com.au/videosearch?q=N...;aq=-1&oq=#

Here's a segment from A documentary by Alex Jones who apparently snuck in and filmed this ritual: http://video.google.com.au/videosearch?q=a...emb=0&aq=f#

If you listen carefully to rabbi Weiss in the other video I posted earlier, initially he says that they are atheists but then you will hear him say that "they (the people behind modern political zionism) have a horid religion and that they sacrifice on their idol, bodies, human beings, hearts, souls"perhaps he knows more than he's letting on?

I'm not sure what the truth of the matter is but there's some pretty weird shit out there concerning this issue and reality is often stranger than fiction..

Edited by baphomet

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