The ordinary-ness of "Eileen"

[Conan Troutman]

Buahahaha, way to see through his cunning marketing scam. My eyes have been opened.

I like Eileen, first cactus I ever got, hardy little thing she is, so far seems to be the quickest most solid thing i've got, in an admitedly small collection. I love her so much i literally wank off over her.. "come on Eileen" <--- hehe lame i know. sorry

The Dude is back! ^^^^^ agreed...

from what Ive read and feedback she certainly seems to do her best werk in a colder temperate climate...

good to see you to ed

[reshroomED]

Ahhh, so you become offended when your word is questioned too Michael. Funny that.

First off, I will express whatever manner of doubt I have in public as I damn well please with whatever intent I choose; that is my prerogative, and one which I give to others towards my views. Secondly, I have said extremely little about your precious little plant, particularly about growth parameters, unless that was to say that my Eileen in my garden grows no bigger in diameter than many of my other T. bridgesii. Any comments on its alkaloid content are all justified considering the fact that there is nothing that in fact does show that it has higher concentrations of mescaline than other T. bridgesii besides anecdotal information.

So you'll say whatever you like, without any evidence, and for whatever reason you choose, as you choose. Well I couldn't ask you to be fairer than that. Since you admit that your comments have no credibility I'll not be offended by them in future.

If I have cast aspersions on any plant I argued my case before my peers and they can be the judge of my arguments value. If I haven't made a valid argument for my comments then they are equally free to dismiss me. I in fact often think I bring some sanity to discussions regarding entheogens. I may be wrong at times and often come to new conclusions from new information, but the least I do is cause meaningful discussion, something I think you would even agree with.

Whom exactly do you regard as peers?

You seem to dismiss all comments re Eileen made by Aussies, and by a lot of fellow Americans too.

I have recieved ZERO neutral/negative feedback from recipients of Eileen, other than to comment on "how well she was going" from all around the world. A few people growing her in dry conditions have commented that growth-rate was normal per bridgesii, but still noted the shapeshifting quality which again I see as not "ordinary"

I don't even know what the "concerned threads" even is. I rarely go to any forum but the cactus one. Feel free to PM me next time…I'm usually pretty good at getting back to these, but sometimes I slack.

The "concerned threads" were the ones that you commented in. I replied. And waited. And read other' replies. And read your next comment, but never had my queries answered (or any answer on the occasions when I was offering you cuttings years ago for that matter).

I'm not going to insist that I haven't made such comments, but I think I've already explained the nature of them and think it might do you well to read them again yourself to see that they are not as bad as you seem to want to make them out to be.

Same old chestnut.

I've made public comments about a plant that I have grown for twenty-odd years. You repeatedly suggest that my statements are false. I take exception to this.

Since you've admitted that your opinions are not fact-related, i'll leave this argument here.

ed

ps found an interesting little snippet (that MSS hasn't bothered to mention in this thread) whilst reading one of the links by MSS's. This is a quote from him at "The Nook":

post Sep 13 07, 08:38 PM GMT

Post #46

My Eileen is but a small clipping still, and with my location and need for pot culture it is unlikely I'll be able to let it get big enough to ever flower.

Edited January 14, 2009 by reshroomED

[M S Smith]

Ahhh, so you become offended when your word is questioned too Michael. Funny that.

You're mistaken if you think I take offense at my "opinions" being questioned. I've never "become offended when [my] word is questioned", but had only found offense when you said that I had "absolutely no evidence to warrant either the suspicion or it's expression in public."...this when I have specifically expressed the basis of my suspicion. But what is even more offensive is that you presume to tell me what thoughts of my own are worthy of "expression in public."

So you'll say whatever you like, without any evidence, and for whatever reason you choose, as you choose.

No, I specifically said "I will express whatever manner of doubt I have in public as I damn well please with whatever intent I choose," not that I will "say whatever like, without any evidence, and for whatever reason choose, as choose." I see no reason why you would see it necessary to bend my words to such a degree, but without a doubt there is a wide gap between what I said and what you claim I had.

Whom exactly do you regard as peers?

You seem to dismiss all comments re Eileen made by Aussies, and by a lot of fellow Americans too.

I have recieved ZERO neutral/negative feedback from recipients of Eileen, other than to comment on "how well she was going" from all around the world. A few people growing her in dry conditions have commented that growth-rate was normal per bridgesii, but still noted the shapeshifting quality which again I see as not "ordinary"

I have not dismissed others who say it grows faster and fatter in their gardens than others T. bridgesii; I've only said that it doesn't grow faster or fatter than other T. Bridgesii in my collection. I have not dismissed other who say it is more rot resistant than other T. bridgesii in their garden; only that it has shown rot in my garden when other T. bridgesii have not. I have not dismissed others who say it is a more powerful entheogen than other T. bridgesii in their collection; only that such views are subjective and anecdotal, which they are. And lastly, and probably completely overlooked by you, I have not dismissed the cold hardiness or the "shapeshifting" as I have not addressed those concerns once in any of my comments regarding Eileen ever. So in this regard I should not be accused of dismissing what I have never addressed.

The "concerned threads" were the ones that you commented in. I replied. And waited. And read other' replies. And read your next comment, but never had my queries answered (or any answer on the occasions when I was offering you cuttings years ago for that matter).

Ed, I apologize if you feel I neglected you. Though I may have already lost you as a friend for my lack of attention, I am at a loss to understand how such a past failure on my part relates your concern over my present statements.

Same old chestnut.

I've made public comments about a plant that I have grown for twenty-odd years. You repeatedly suggest that my statements are false. I take exception to this.

Since you've admitted that your opinions are not fact-related, i'll leave this argument here.

My statements regarding my own experience with Eileen are far from my having suggested your statements are false.

ps found an interesting little snippet (that MSS hasn't bothered to mention in this thread) whilst reading one of the links by MSS's. This is a quote from him at "The Nook":

post Sep 13 07, 08:38 PM GMT

Post #46

My Eileen is but a small clipping still, and with my location and need for pot culture it is unlikely I'll be able to let it get big enough to ever flower.

And the truthful statement that Eileen will probably never bloom for me is relevant to your comments regarding the uniqueness of Eileen, or my legitimate concerns over its elevated status exactly how?

~Michael~

Edited January 15, 2009 by M S Smith

[reshroomED]

I'd forgotten about this (no slight upon you Michael).

And thanks for that, as I have been feeling neglected lately (now I know why ). Perhaps you could make some obscure comment regarding something vaguely relating to me every now or then, just to cheer me up.

Or you could just stop making comments on a non-factual basis re my cactus.

ed

[M S Smith]

Or you could just stop making comments on a non-factual basis re my cactus.

Man, you really have it in for me don't you? You really should just cool your jets, I'm not as much of a threat to "your cactus" as you seem to want to make me out to be, but I can tell you this much, the more defensive you become over my comments, which aren't what you suppose they are, only enforces the idea that you are out to create a false image about the plant for purely commercial reasons. And for that reason, and for being incredibly uncivil, not to mention closed minded to what I've actually been saying, I hope you get traded out of any profitable sales. I've said nothing at all that was "non-factual", and since you seem to want to overlook what I wrote above, let me repeat the most important part...

"I have not dismissed others who say it grows faster and fatter in their gardens than other T. bridgesii; I've only said that it doesn't grow faster or fatter than other T. Bridgesii in my collection. I have not dismissed other who say it is more rot resistant than other T. bridgesii in their garden; only that it has shown rot in my garden when other T. bridgesii have not. I have not dismissed others who say it is a more powerful entheogen than other T. bridgesii in their collection; only that such views are subjective and anecdotal, which they are. And lastly, and probably completely overlooked by you, I have not dismissed the cold hardiness or the "shapeshifting" as I have not addressed those concerns once in any of my comments regarding Eileen ever. So in this regard I should not be accused of dismissing what I have never addressed."

Later alligator,

~Michael~

[incognito]

what is all this tripe knocking eileen?

i wonder how experienced in the ol' smoothie experience' are these nay-sayers?

anyone knocking eileens propertys obviously does not know shit from clay(except for taste)

all hail eileen!!

oh yeah and mike...as for eds 'commercial interests' in eileen??? ed sells eileen at a more than reasonable price, well below what most other retailers both in and out of the ethno scene sell there cacti for.mzn ive bought some of him personally then received more in the mail as he thought id paid to much!!

a more honest,prompt and decent trader u will not deal with.

i guess it would be hard for u to appreciate the significance she has for us, as ive heard that u(mssmith) dont partake in the actual experience. i could be wrong.If so i think its time for u to take the plunge, maybee start with eileen and u will experience why we hold her so dear.

as what u may not realise is she has done some amazing things for us, healing on an emotional, spiritual and (epecially for me) physical level.

$ doesnt make much sense when u r discussing this plant. shes worth 1000plus buks a metre in my opinion (sure saved me that and more at the chiro)

thankyou ed for bringing this amazing plant into our beloved community, dont listen to tools that dont 'get it'.

we all love you man.

Edited February 3, 2009 by incognito

[mr b.caapi]

Hear Hear

[M S Smith]

incognito, the italicized paragraph I wrote above shows that I have not "knocked" it as much as you and Ed think that I have. Maybe you both would be happier if I lied and said it grew faster and fatter than other T. bridgesii in my collection and was less inclined to rot than my other T. bridgeii. Can't you see that I am only expressing my own experience with the plant? Why should I not say that? No, more to the fact, why would you wish to restrict me from saying that?

Would you be happy if I dismissed that short of some "real" analysis's of multiple T. bridgesi clones the fact that people say it is a better entheogen is anecdotal? Fine, be happy with Eileen as much as you like, experience it to your hearts content, and share that as you like, but I should not be attacked for questioning the alkaloid content of something that remains without controlled tests against other T. bridgesii and some real data.

Honestly, no one has ever taken equal weight amounts of Eileen and another T. bridgesii, which have been grown under identical conditions and harvested at the same time, and done a very real analysis on them, either to measure mescaline, or examine the alkaloid composition. To tell you the truth neither you or Ed's anecdotal accounts of your use of the plants provides any sort of answer to this question. But regardless of this, I don't' understand how you guys can seriously be so concerned about what are my questions, not my claims, about the plant. Which again goes back to an apparent desire to shut me up for busting up the party.

And again, as for "shape-shifting" and "cold hardiness," I have never said anything to counter these claims.

So what do we have in the end is me questioning growth habit and rot resistance because I haven't seen such superiority on my own plant, and doubting what hasn't been determined by any real measure, this being the alleged alkaloid superiority.

I don't really deserve such treatment for such simple musings. Sorry for stepping on your toes, but your reactions to me only point out how little real support you have for the claims.

~Michael~

Edited February 3, 2009 by M S Smith

[incognito]

well stop presuming and thinking u know everything about cacti!!like ur 'true pachanoi bs' have u ever grown 5000 pchanoi seedlings? have u seen the variation??

yes i have harvested eileen and other bridgesii strains ,pachanoi strains, macrogonus strains, at the same time in the same local(my old stock plants)

they where stored and brews made at fortnight intervals.

in my experience eileen was alot longer in duration, and i experienced alot more physical healing of old caraccident and sporting imjurys.

which leads me to think eileen may contain some sort of anti-inflamattory alkaloid, and maybee some MAOI type alkaloids.

I couldnt be fuked testing, im not interested in that shit.But i do know most tests done just measure mescaline content, when we know that the experience doesnt solely rely on mesc, so again, maybee mesc content is 'average' in ur opinion, ur not opening ur mind to what else may lie within.

i just know what i know from personal experience.

im not saying she doesnt have equals nor superiors out there, im saying shes the finest cactus ive ever worked with, for healing purposes.

And if she does please hook us all up.

Im out of this debacle, its disrespectful to both ed & the aussie ethno community and most of all Eileen.

I just cant see why u can weigh into an argument on a plants shamnic significance when u urslef do not partake in the experience.

Just makes it sound like one big wank, holds no meaning.

edit--- just for z record, eileen grows faster than most of my other clones, actually shes on par with pachanois , which i think u will find repeated by other growers and experiencers here. She is also Frost tolerant , yeah i have seen black rot on her, but only in humid climates, when nearly every other cactus gets it.

Edited February 4, 2009 by incognito

[M S Smith]

incognito, I have never been defensive towards anyone who ever raised questions about what I have had to say, I have only rather tried to explain it better to help them understand my views. I wish others would do the same rather than attempt to devalue the contributions I have made to the study of these plants as a means to defend their own position.

~Michael~

[incognito]

okay,

but u did support a guy who believes we have 'hyped' eileen, when u have not tried the cactus for urself.

all im tryin to say. just seems like an attack on the aussie ethno community to my unedjamacated eye.

[M S Smith]

Man, I am so sorry, but I'm completely at a loss to figure out how sharing my own experience in growing the plant can be taken as an attack on the aussie ethno community. Honestly, nothing I raise about the alkaloid content either prevents or downplays Ed's or your voice about what you think of it. I'm inclined to a bit more data on the plant, that's all, but my preference has nothing to do with you voicing your opinions about it from an anecdotal and experiencial perspective.

I'm saddened that your guys' perspective seems to demand that I not voice my opinions. It would be nice if when I raise a question about something someone would answer it to the best of their ability without getting defensive that I raised the question. In the end I am not out to stop the spread of accurate information about this plant or any others, but rather out to make others back up what they say. Saddly backing things up can be difficult, but that is no grounds to attack others who are more curiouis than anything.

And as for my experience with these plant, I will only say that unlike you I do not use a pseudonym to hide my words behind. I hope you see my points incognito, I am tired of arguing with those who find fault with my having shared as opposed to finding fault with what I do share. In the end though I know this isn't going to repair my relationship with Ed, but I hope everyone sees that for all I've said against Eileen, a fucking plant for Christ's sake, is all I've gotten is personal attacks against me when I have done nothing but help this community thrive all the while forcing it to grow by doing what I did to Eileen, raise questions.

~Michael~

Edited February 4, 2009 by M S Smith

[BBGONE]

yes you have mate

http://reshroomed.bigpondhosting.com/photo1.jpg

http://reshroomed.bigpondhosting.com/photo2.jpg

http://reshroomed.bigpondhosting.com/photo8.jpg

http://reshroomed.bigpondhosting.com/photo12.jpg

P.S. Real fucken sorry I didn't make it to the camping trip and haven't been at SAB at all PD, have been flat stick with work this past few months only able to get a week off for the whole year all up.

All the best guys

 

The tops are spineless and areoles inverted.

Definitely they have genetic closeness to T. scopulicola.

Someone can trade a clone?

[Foo]

Ummmm, again? really?

Maybe someone needs to spend a weekend locking all the old threads

[dworx]

Man, I am so sorry, but I'm completely at a loss to figure out how sharing my own experience in growing the plant can be taken as an attack on the aussie ethno community. Honestly, nothing I raise about the alkaloid content either prevents or downplays Ed's or your voice about what you think of it. I'm inclined to a bit more data on the plant, that's all, but my preference has nothing to do with you voicing your opinions about it from an anecdotal and experiencial perspective.

I'm saddened that your guys' perspective seems to demand that I not voice my opinions. It would be nice if when I raise a question about something someone would answer it to the best of their ability without getting defensive that I raised the question. In the end I am not out to stop the spread of accurate information about this plant or any others, but rather out to make others back up what they say. Saddly backing things up can be difficult, but that is no grounds to attack others who are more curiouis than anything.

And as for my experience with these plant, I will only say that unlike you I do not use a pseudonym to hide my words behind. I hope you see my points incognito, I am tired of arguing with those who find fault with my having shared as opposed to finding fault with what I do share. In the end though I know this isn't going to repair my relationship with Ed, but I hope everyone sees that for all I've said against Eileen, a fucking plant for Christ's sake, is all I've gotten is personal attacks against me when I have done nothing but help this community thrive all the while forcing it to grow by doing what I did to Eileen, raise questions.

~Michael~

 

Michael,

I enjoy reading your posts, I find you to be very knowledgeable and your plants are amazing. I personally have EIleen and alos PsychOo, I am in Australia and disregarding alk contents the psycho grows much quicker, all conditions being the same. We don't all view what you say as personal attack

~Tom~

[PD.]

Ummmm, again? really?

Maybe someone needs to spend a weekend locking all the old threads

 

Yeah fully. I couldnt think of a better way to spend a saturday arvo and evening, really, it would be the most enthralling thing i could think of doing. OR perhaps people could pay a lil more attention to the content of the 25 year old thread they are reviving for no great reason, that is expecting a bit too much though i guess.

[Foo]

Most forums have an auto archive feature, i assume that could be used to "lock" old posts, but still make them av for reference

[BBGONE]

Yeah fully. I couldnt think of a better way to spend a saturday arvo and evening, really, it would be the most enthralling thing i could think of doing. OR perhaps people could pay a lil more attention to the content of the 25 year old thread they are reviving for no great reason, that is expecting a bit too much though i guess.

 

It is only 2 years old.

Are things changing so fast?

This is good topic about Eileen, why to close it?

My post does not touch consumption,

and the law does not have back force (for older posts).

They can not change the past.

Edited April 7, 2011 by BBGONE

[BBGONE]

Michael,

I enjoy reading your posts, I find you to be very knowledgeable and your plants are amazing. I personally have EIleen and alos PsychOo, I am in Australia and disregarding alk contents the psycho grows much quicker, all conditions being the same. We don't all view what you say as personal attack

~Tom~

 

O course, Michael

everyone has his own opinion.

I enjoy your collection.

Your posts were very valuable for many of us.

[Philocacti]

an eileen cutting i have threw out roots in less than 3 weeks,

i'm familiar with seedlings throwing roots in 2 weeks, but eileen is the only adult cutting i have that has done that.

Very impressive.

[M S Smith]

an eileen cutting i have threw out roots in less than 3 weeks,

i'm familiar with seedlings throwing roots in 2 weeks, but eileen is the only adult cutting i have that has done that.

Very impressive.

 

Less than three weeks after being cut, or less than three weeks after you received it? I suspect the latter. Maybe the source can let you know how long it sat around to callous before being sent to you.

~Michael~

[Philocacti]

3 weeks after i cut it. I received eileen as a cutting with 3 arms. So i cut 1 arm and it sent out roots in less than 3 weeks.

But i root my cutting by laying them on soil in a place that gets 4 hours or so of diret sun and i water twice a week. Most cutting take from 2 -4 months to root. So 3 weeks is competing with pereskiopsis IME.

[Gunter]

I've noticed that some of my fastest growing clones are also the fastest to root (2-3weeks instead of 2-3months), Eileen seems to be pretty fast according to others. I've turned down every offer of this plant though, not that have anything against it, I just have limited space.

[Philocacti]

3 weeks after cutting 2 limbs (but i let the biggest limb) and it's pupping.

I don't have any experience with mature bridgesii, but this seems very fast

Edited May 20, 2011 by Philocacti

[Bretloth]

I got an Eileen cutting three weeks ago, the cut was fresh so let it sit for a week to callous properly, planted it a week ago in a small pot (only one I had), repotted to a larger pot today and it had already started to send out some roots. Never repotted a cacti that fast after initial potting so can't say if it's fast, but not argueing Planted a Rosei 1 at the same time and it has new growth already and rooting.Have her indoors in a room that doesn't get alot of light but has a radiator set to 20 degree c. I'm no expert in all this but Eileen certainly is different, noticably different right from the start appearance wise. Better or not, is subjective I think. I know I already love my freaky morphing little blue beauty, Eileen

Edited May 20, 2011 by Bretloth