Jump to content
The Corroboree
Sign in to follow this  
Sparkster

The "Australia" Movie

Recommended Posts

i think the country as a whole should feel ashamed

Why?

well, for 1,

we are enjoying this privilidged life in this beautiful country as a direct result of the aboriginals loss, pain and suffering. .

i AM sorry for what happened to the aboriginals. as i am sorry for ANYONE who have experienced such loss ,pain, discrimination and racism in as little as 3-4 generations, often much less than that.

i just think its a good idea to understand the past so that the whole of australia can work toward a much more equitable and positive future. which i think we are doing.

im not bitchin at anyone, and sorry for being short Hunab, but getting rid of this stupid ignorant racism is the only way forward. and yes its a part of aussie culture. people are people aiii?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

nobody is saying that any of you were personally responsible, but i think there's a general misunderstanding as to just how recently aboriginals were treated like dirt. it wasn't very far in the past. they got the right to vote in the sixties i believe. it wasn't really until the nineties that serious reconciliation attempts began.

maybe cogno is saying we should be personally sorry, but i'm talking about it on more of a national level. our nation destroyed their nation, our nation owes them something. our nation owes them a whole lot IMO. extra centrelink income isn't really doing much. we owe these people big time, for ruining their way of life and killing them by the million, and treating their sacred land as nothing more than a resource to be used.

when i go into the bush, sometimes, i get this crazy feeling thinking that a couple hundred years ago, there were blackfellas probably running around spearing roo's and stuff. on that very land, which is just empty now, maybe it's fenced off as pasture or whatever but aborigines literally roamed this country and were connected in a deep way. they existed probably longer than any other culture, by many millenium. the significance of white invasion can't be overstated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can't even contemplate reading this whole post...

i thought the movie was standard hollywood and wasn't expecting anything more. At one point however i was unsure if it would in fact end.

peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sorry for being short Hunab, but getting rid of this stupid ignorant racism is the only way forward. and yes its a part of aussie culture. people are people aiii?

Incognito, it's not about you being short or long, it's about you dropping that dirty little word and not being able to back it up. You still haven't explained how hunabs post was "racist"? Can you please clear this up for me? The only "stupid ignorant racism" I see here is by those advocating racism against non aboriginals.

Nabraxas, once again you have cherry picked quotes from that article and misrepresented it by omission to suit your own purposes.

It is no secret that the government has been fighting a loosing battle to stop the widespread corruption and mismanagement in many of these aboriginal groups who squander money and keep much if not all of it for themselves whilst passing on little if anything to the community.

The article actually went on to say the government are "determined to overhaul the system" and that mining companies are advising them as to how to ensure that the money benefits the aboriginal community instead of it being squandered or locked up in trusts as it currently is so it actually goes against the point you were trying to make.

Edited by baphomet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nabraxas, once again you have cherry picked quotes from that article

i posted the headline & first paragraph for the sake ov brevity. If you call that cherry picking fair enough.

An expert group advising the Rudd Government — drawn from mining industry, academia and indigenous bodies

We can only guess as to how hard the mining industry were pushing to change the system

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"It is no secret that the government has been fighting a loosing battle to stop the widespread corruption and mismanagement in many of these aboriginal groups who squander money and keep much if not all of it for themselves whilst passing on little if anything to the community. "

i get the impression this is fairly accurate. it's exactly what most people would do given the chance, eg, politicians.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"get more money from the government than non aboriginal"

not true baph, newstart, parenting payment, bla de frickin bla, all the same.Literally, factually, seriously, no difference whatsoever solely based on whether you report being indigenous, or not. that question is on forms more as a tracking slash ongoing data collection regime.... "look we got 20 extra darkies into work this week". Some provisions for remote area allowance that are just as, often more, frequently claimed by non indigenous ppl ie useless rurals using out of date farming practices who expect the rest of the nation to prop up the remains of their white dreams built on black blood.

your statement hasn't been true since the old DSS days, or so I am reliably informed by ppl that are actually paid pretty highly to know about these things. it certainly isn't true in any personal sense, that is, my family that recieves the standard range of Vote For Me Again Kevin Rudd Payments.... a handful of shrapnel, in essence once two people do a weeks work.... the fact that myself and my daugher are identified as Aboriginal doesn't change a thing. The only extra forms we get are the same as anyone else... "partners details"...... "update your estimates"... etc.

So yeah, that's bullshit. Just not true. About as true as any leading crock of shit churned fresh daily by know it alls with beer guts and ironically pronounced brow ridges ;)

the rest I agree with, give or take, in principle. The concept of Uncle Kevin saying "sorry" is laughable... for starters, Sorry in the indigenous context has, like many things, a lot to do with how the irish use the term... insert "oh, tis a sorry business fer sure!" here... it's not "you should say sorry, cos its your fault" its more like... rape victims sometimes just wanting someone, almsot anyone, to say "I belive you, and it shouldn't have happened".

what happened to my granddad, or what my mum grew up with, let alone who was kept in which shed and flogged with a length of number 8 when not being put in the position of having to conceal your pregnancy from the Missus of the homestead in case SHE sacked your worthless black arse (but still good enough to fuck,to stick your most vital member in, says the living proof)... has very little to do with Mr and Mrs Broadband up the road. But somehow, if anytime they look out from their colourbond clad wire-skirted decking towards the stunned looking hills, they think "wow, NONE of this shit used to be here, imagine that!"... that's half the "problem" fixed.

As for racism against non aboriginals (if you want to talk racism, I think you actually mean Aborigines, there), it does happen, of COURSE it does. Fuck, as a pasty kinda blackfella (but yknow, yeah I can see that now you mention it) I have had the rare joy of being hated in torres strait for being a blackfella, and white, and govt offspring... in mainland australia, for being a sun browned, white aborigine with an islander accent... and in a couple of Sydney Westfields for not being Lebanese... while still packing the serious eyebrows and bone structure that tends to trigger middle eastern tendencies.

But it has been a while since I saw some whitebread walk into AboLink and get sneered at for wearing country road.... or Mrs. ThinksThatGianRooneyIsWonderful being pulled over in her credible old car by a couple of smartarse young murrray coppers... even though the same ancient gemini with THEM in it would be a "gang car" subject to specific legislation based on discrimination and racial profiling. Young White Bogan kiddies with kiddies can have nice kid gear, and people think "well theyre providing the best they can" but if you have mocha skin and a wooly head, then its assumed the 900 tactical assault stroller you have is off the back of some kinda payment, versus humping your guts out for award wage in the sun 40 hours a week.

You're a smart man bapho, and you really do bother me none... but there's some stale, recycled nonsense coming out of you in this regard. Just, simply not true. There are 10 year olds that could articulate how, and why, you are wrong.

Remember, government relies on fucking EVERYONE over and feeding em lies.... just they know they have to flavour them differently for different culturally embedded tastes ;)

lands councils and various NGOs are notoriously corrupt and noone knows this more readily than indigenous aussies themselves, and the govt depts that work most closely with them... think the politics of Zimbabwe, but on a scale of a couple hundred clicks involving dual cabs rather than tanks. Same shit... educated men taking money from the hands and food from the mouths of innocent nobodies... it is not a cultural thing. Slush fund, anyone? Developer kickback to go, Sir?

As a wise man once said, it is amazing that these damned minorities manage to be so intellectually bereft, yet so cunning and conniving all at the same time ;)

Old african saying... the Boss casts a looooong shadow... and politics, as has been said, is politics. hasnt changed in a thousand years, and won't change anytime soon either.

btw, bapho, you are essentially suggesting that entirely based on statistical data, YOU are more trustworthy around your child, than I am around mine... that's pretty sick, isn't it? Do you honestly think They should send a squad to my house, this evening, wake my daughter up in her room fulla Winnie the Pooh and handmade concoctions of pva glue and glitter, put the fear of god into her blue eyes and fair hair, and then INSPECT her? i think you come off as a bit of a cunt, sometimes, but if someone suggested that purely for being Anglo Saxon (or whatever) background, you should be presumed guilty until proven (at great trauma) otherwise, I'd still be in here ranting shit about how its wrong. How bout you grant me, us, the same basic respect? My daughter is a beautiful person, inside n out, because both her parents (even if one is related to Guy Fawkes, but dont get me started) have expected her to expect respect from the first day she entered the world... and the thought that I am presumed more likely to do something inappropriate with such a precious lil being by someone like yourself just makes me sick. Like, fuck. Really?

The most neglectful thing we do to our child is expect her to chill and watch some Little Einstein or play with her lego or paint for 10 minutes while we prepare a healthy, organic where possible meal for her. I spent most of the last two days on my arse (which, genetically, is not very well padded, damn boong bum) making chrissy decorations in gold n blue metallic card and wiring frangipanis for fairy lights... if thats neglect, I would HATE to see abuse.

I know it's the ultimate wanky internet thing to say, but I really would like to see you say that while standing face to face with me. Either you wouldn't, at least once you Inspected Our Residence and Approved It... or you would, and then you'd see me get mad as hell, and then, to be entirely honest, probably NOT hit you. You know why? Well...yknow how every class in every school has the Black Kid that Gets Into Fights? What people don't realise it, that for every vacant white pig he lands a punch on, is a hundred or more that he held back on, because he knew his every action was being evaluated and used at the yardstick to measure the performance and standards of every other lil broom monkey in town. Because even after 200 years and thorough crossing with some snooty eurotrash blood indeed, I STILL can't hold real eye contact with "authority", all it takes is some Cold Blue Eyes and a bit of paperwork and I'm putty, even though I know how the paperwork, works.

Also a stunning lack of news stories into "international kiddy fiddling ring leads federal police to squat full of drunken homeless"... plenty about em leading into the chambers of QC's, the offices of teachers and police officers, and various other nice, trustworthy White People.

VM

Edited by Vertmorpheus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can't help but throw in my two cents here... this post is directed toward the obviously racist in this thread

I am appalled by some of the opinion expressed here, if I was perfect and heading toward higher states of consciousness or something I'm sure I wouldn't get involved and it wouldn't bother me. but it does. i can't even write it all down! i think the best thing i can say here is go and do some cultural awareness training or chill with some aboriginal people - who knows, you might even learn something.

:slap:

Edited by meanies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
this post is directed toward the obviously racist in this thread

You can't be talking about me.. (cause that would be downright stupid).. I'm assuming you are talking about those who support racism against non aborigines??

To those who would say that I have made racist remarks in this thread, I ask them to QUOTE ME? If they are unable to do this then I suggest they STFU and stay out of it! Stop dropping that word and slandering me with nothing to back up the dumb shit your spouting!!

"I am appalled by some of the opinion expressed here"

Stiff shit!! :wave-finger: I am appalled by your opinion too.

your statement hasn't been true since the old DSS days, or so I am reliably informed by ppl that are actually paid pretty highly to know about these things. it certainly isn't true in any personal sense, that is, my family that recieves the standard range of Vote For Me Again Kevin Rudd Payments.... a handful of shrapnel, in essence once two people do a weeks work.... the fact that myself and my daugher are identified as Aboriginal doesn't change a thing. The only extra forms we get are the same as anyone else... "partners details"...... "update your estimates"... etc.

I never mentioned extra forms, on the same forms that everyone else fills out to apply for centrelink payments you will see a box asking if you are Aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander.

I knew someone who used to laugh about the fact that he got more money for being "aboriginal" and last I heard the situation hadn't changed, a few weeks ago a friend was asked by someone at centrelink when they were reviewing his payments whether he was aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander, he asked why and asked whether that would mean he was entitled to more money, they refused to answer the question and said that he would have to talk to the aboriginal affairs officer who never got back to him. Are you sure there are no extra benefits for aboriginals these days? Last I heard aboriginals were getting more money in centrelink payments, paid to go to funerals, paid to send their kids to school, free cars, free houses, interest free loans, etc, is this all wrong too? Have I been mislead?? I look forward to doing some serious mythbusting here.

From what I can see you don't doubt that aborigines were once paid more on the basis of race? If this racism is no longer happening then that's great, but there's still the issue of compensation..

I want an apology, a promise that this will never happen again and compensation for all non indigenous people who have been victims of these racist crimes committed by our government!!

They have tried to make up for past inequalities by creating more inequality and have racially discriminated against me and countless other Australians!

"I belive you, and it shouldn't have happened".

I question 'official' history a lot but I don't doubt that many aboriginees have been mistreated, I do believe you and it shouldn't have happened (!), but making newly arrived immigrant children who can hardly speak the language write letters of apology to aboriginal people for crimes they or their ancestors didn't commit is a bit much don't you think?

I have had the rare joy of being hated

I have been racially discriminated against too, not just by my government for being non aboriginal but by other members of society for being of Greek decent, in fact my grandparents shop was regularly trashed by some assholes telling them to get out of the country, one of them is a sports presenter on television now.

I guess they thought that they were part of some superior "white society" which excluded "wogs". The irony of it is that without Greece there would be no "western civilisation", they wouldn't have their language, philosophy, mathematics, etc and where would they be without Rome? (possibly still living in thatched huts) But they still had the idea that they were somehow superior to Greeks and Italians. :blink:

I have no time for white supremacists, but if you listen to what they say and filter out the hate and pro white shit, sadly they have some valid points and good reason to be angry, "white" people are being discriminated against in MANY ways and this is being completely ignored, tolerated, or even condoned by self loathing white people as we can see even in this thread.

Misplaced white guilt and political correctness is one of the worst things that has ever happened to the world IMO and is the cause of many of the problems in aboriginal communities today.

I am not advocating racism, what I am promoting is EQUALITY! I don't think it's acceptable for aboriginal people to have substandard health care, education, etc, I think they should be EQUAL to everyone else, NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS!!

"btw, bapho, you are essentially suggesting that entirely based on statistical data, YOU are more trustworthy around your child, than I am around mine... that's pretty sick, isn't it? Do you honestly think They should send a squad to my house, this evening, wake my daughter up in her room fulla Winnie the Pooh and handmade concoctions of pva glue and glitter, put the fear of god into her blue eyes and fair hair, and then INSPECT her?"

No I simply quoted statistics that claim that aboriginal communities have the highest rate of child abuse in the Developed world, it is also a well known fact that aboriginal communities have a higher rate of domestic violence than the rest of society, do you dispute these claims?

I made no personal attack against you as a parent, please don't put words in my mouth.

I am simply suggesting that aboriginal children deserve the same rights as every other Australian citizen and that this should not be denied to them because of the governments fear of guilty white softcocks.

I'm not suggesting that any race is immune from pedeophilia, many a white child has been "inspected" and placed in a safer environment when they are suspected of being physically or sexually abused but the government has been too scared to do it in aboriginal communities and children are suffering as a result. I'm not suggesting that all aboriginal children be "inspected" but where there is reasonable suspicion that inapropriate behaviour has occurred then the government have a duty to protect that child. Surely you don't want them to suffer for the sake of you feeling a little offended at being racially profiled do you?

I knew you were aboriginal man, I've heard you say so in another thread, I don't have anything against you, in fact I like reading your posts cause they often make me laugh. I don't expect you to agree with everything I say but whether you agree with me or not I hope you will understand the point that I am trying to make here and not be offended cause the way I see it, if you do understand me then there's no reason why you should be offended.

For the record I have nothing against aborigines, nor am I a racist. I'm not just saying that to keep some people happy, if I felt otherwise I would say so, I couldn't really give a fuck what anyone thinks to be honest!

Edited by baphomet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what are the credentials one must meet to become a member of a white supremacist org...? Born on the moon with gun in one hand and the other hand holding their supremely tiny cock..oh and can only mutter swear words when under the influence of moonshine whilst kicking their fair wifes asses cause they said hello to George from the green grocer.

Isnt it enough that humans are virus like on this beautiful planet without having such ridiculous sub sections of I'm better than you dot org.... :uzi:

H.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sooo.. that Australia movie....not bad eh? lol

I don't have a huge gripe with either argument here really. I can understand people being annoyed by what they perceive to be special treatment, I certainly don't think it can be deemed as Rascist.

How does one close the huge gap in life expectancy, poverty, health and decent services? There's a section of society that happens to belong to the same culture that has been treated badly for a very long time, and whose way of living has dramaticly changed after THOOOUSANDS of years in which they've effectively lost all control in which how their society operates. So....they have been screwed over, no arguement there, but how does the government close the gap as far as quality of life?... without targeting aborigines themselves? (for fear of being labeled 'rascist' & 'unfair')

There is a huge irony for me. I made the same statements as you when I was living in NZ. It completely irked me that friends of mine who were 1/8 Maori and were more financially well off than me, received scholarships only available to maori students, higher unemployment benefits. The most absurd thing is the government had quotas of how many Maori people had to receive certain degrees each year, (such as law) effectively making some of them pass whereas they would have failed if they were Non-Maori. Then there was a seperate electoral role...

Despite the NZ Labor parties good intentions, there was a larger cultural schism because it really irked alot of people and it created an 'us' & 'them' mentality. It became something of a cash cow with tribes squabbling over who could claim entitlements over what. In a small country where the people given additional handouts were you're next door neighbour, not people living destitute in the middle of nowhere with no facilities like in Australia, the public felt they weren't doing anything that really helped them.

Did you see the Howard Years on ABC the other night? There was a government Minister under Howard (sorry forgot the name!) reduced to tears when he was talking about the horrific living standards of some of these communities. I don't think it's 'rascist' Baph to provide them assistance, targeted one way or another, it's certainly justified for Australian aborigines...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I certainly don't think it can be deemed as Rascist.

Grab a dictionary.

Your post illustrates one of the issues I raised earlier, which is the racist AFFIRMATIVE ACTION program that exists in the US and has been copied by many other counties.

WHATCH THIS

Edited by baphomet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So how would you close the gap in living standards though Baph? in a way that you would deem to be fair?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

okay.

well, i ignorantly deemed hunabs post as racist due to the-' they will all consider us white lamos' or something similar to that effect. which im sure wasnt intended as a racist comment. i apologise Hanub.

i agree with vert, aboriginals receive no more than those on other govt pensions. its just stupid.

its this type of 'racist culture' that exists in white culture that pisses me off.

i really cant be bothered trying to talk on this topic as it really gives me the shits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

baphomet, I am intrigued by your lack of guilt for what was done to aborigines. I am a recent migrant too so my family had nothign to do with anything that has been done to the original inhabitants of this country and yet I can't simply accept that my recent arrival is entirely innocent. I mean, where does guilt and responsibility end? If a country invades another and commits genocide, does the guilt end as soon as all the perpetrators have died from old age? or does it carry on to their children and grand children? [eg when will turkey legitimately own part of cyprus - in 30 years?]

In your interpretation it seems that the guilt ends as soon as the actual perpetrator dies. But what about the responsibility? In your model it would seem that everything is brought back into balance within 70 years or so. But what about the people who have been disadvantaged by the process? Does their disadvantage end after 70 years? Did the disadvantage of the slave descendants suddenly disappear after 70 years? Does the wealt created by the invaders from the invaded land and from the enslaved people suddenly redistribute through the disadvantaged community? No it doesn't and hence even if we feel no guilt, we still need tot ake responsibility.

In australia we have gone through phases of imposing 'improvements' onto aboriginees, or lettign them work things out by form of self determination, and now by a mixture of the two. But all of these are done in OUR framework and based on our culture. What's the point of providing money for single family housing if they don't want to live in community style housing? or more to the point, what's the point of providing money for housing if all they need is land to walk on? Even the people who try hard to understand what might be the appropriate way forward generally fail to grasp some fundamental concepts that generally doom such attempts, so I don't blame you for being even more ignorant of such matters.

You simply can't expect a culture to suddenly recover and become wholesome if you first spent 150 years eradicating that culture and especially the leaders within the culture. I don't claim to have an answer to the problem. I doubt that even if all immigrants fromt he last 200 years left this continent that the aboriginal culture could repair itself. But I also don't think that forced integration and a complete wiping of the remainders of that culture are the way forward, which is essentially what you are implying. That said, I think you are right that the last phase of aboriginal development, ie self determination has failed dismally. This may be due to the models used or it may be inherent to that culture or human nature. It's going to take a person much smarter than you or me to work that out. In the meantime your simplistic approach of true equality you can be assured is also going to fail.

personally I think the best way forward is to provide relevant choices. Those who want to join the western mainstream should be given extra support to do so, while those who take an active approach in preserving their culture should also be given extra support. Those who are caught between the two and essentially in a mess may need to be treated like anyone else who isn't helping to end the stalemate. However, simply saying 'we are all equal and we should not get preferential treatment' is denying the long term effect of the cultural genocide that preceeded the wealth and opportunity you and I enjoy. Affirmative action needs to be provided where it helps to solve inequality, but I agree it should not be applied as a blanket right.

In simpler terms, you are living from the stolen property of another culture. The land you are on has provided this wealth and it was never your land to start off with.

If you buy a car from the decendants of a car thief then the car will be taken away from you and returned to the decendants of the original owner, but the land you have bought from the decendants of a land thief belongs to you! Something is not quite right with that and I can't see how there is at least some guilt or responsibility due.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted to put a little more of this into real terms and less into ideas about what its like/might be like for aboriginal people.... I live and work with aboriginal people in my community, the shit those people have to put up with based purely on the colour of their skin, old ideas and mainly for lack of understanding of their culture sucks. I haven't studied aboriginal culture and am not an expert in the laws/interventions but i have been told numerous times the timelines on some of what i would consider a basic human right.

baph imagine not being considered a human being - and considered in the same vein as livestock... coming under the national parks and wildlife act.... that would suck right, it is my understanding that ATSI's were only removed from this in the late 70's or early 80's. (someone please look this up or provide factual evidence if I don't get around to it!).

I would love to see some of the more extremist views expressed in this thread spoken in a circle with elders. Also I wonder what the land says to you brothers when you journey with the aid of the plants that are discussed in this forum - farout.

peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
baphomet, I am intrigued by your lack of guilt for what was done to aborigines. I am a recent migrant too so my family had nothign to do with anything that has been done to the original inhabitants of this country and yet I can't simply accept that my recent arrival is entirely innocent. I mean, where does guilt and responsibility end? If a country invades another and commits genocide, does the guilt end as soon as all the perpetrators have died from old age? or does it carry on to their children and grand children? [eg when will turkey legitimately own part of cyprus - in 30 years?]

In your interpretation it seems that the guilt ends as soon as the actual perpetrator dies. But what about the responsibility? In your model it would seem that everything is brought back into balance within 70 years or so. But what about the people who have been disadvantaged by the process? Does their disadvantage end after 70 years? Did the disadvantage of the slave descendants suddenly disappear after 70 years? Does the wealt created by the invaders from the invaded land and from the enslaved people suddenly redistribute through the disadvantaged community? No it doesn't and hence even if we feel no guilt, we still need tot ake responsibility.

In australia we have gone through phases of imposing 'improvements' onto aboriginees, or lettign them work things out by form of self determination, and now by a mixture of the two. But all of these are done in OUR framework and based on our culture. What's the point of providing money for single family housing if they don't want to live in community style housing? or more to the point, what's the point of providing money for housing if all they need is land to walk on? Even the people who try hard to understand what might be the appropriate way forward generally fail to grasp some fundamental concepts that generally doom such attempts, so I don't blame you for being even more ignorant of such matters.

You simply can't expect a culture to suddenly recover and become wholesome if you first spent 150 years eradicating that culture and especially the leaders within the culture. I don't claim to have an answer to the problem. I doubt that even if all immigrants fromt he last 200 years left this continent that the aboriginal culture could repair itself. But I also don't think that forced integration and a complete wiping of the remainders of that culture are the way forward, which is essentially what you are implying. That said, I think you are right that the last phase of aboriginal development, ie self determination has failed dismally. This may be due to the models used or it may be inherent to that culture or human nature. It's going to take a person much smarter than you or me to work that out. In the meantime your simplistic approach of true equality you can be assured is also going to fail.

personally I think the best way forward is to provide relevant choices. Those who want to join the western mainstream should be given extra support to do so, while those who take an active approach in preserving their culture should also be given extra support. Those who are caught between the two and essentially in a mess may need to be treated like anyone else who isn't helping to end the stalemate. However, simply saying 'we are all equal and we should not get preferential treatment' is denying the long term effect of the cultural genocide that preceeded the wealth and opportunity you and I enjoy. Affirmative action needs to be provided where it helps to solve inequality, but I agree it should not be applied as a blanket right.

In simpler terms, you are living from the stolen property of another culture. The land you are on has provided this wealth and it was never your land to start off with.

If you buy a car from the decendants of a car thief then the car will be taken away from you and returned to the decendants of the original owner, but the land you have bought from the decendants of a land thief belongs to you! Something is not quite right with that and I can't see how there is at least some guilt or responsibility due.

I struggle with this ideology...how many wars and how many lives have and will be lost over humans claiming some dirt as theirs...none of this land is anyones..it belongs to Gaia..we are only temporary keepers here..wouldn't aboriginals have come from other islands in the north originally..does that give them the right to claim this land theirs...no and I beleive they don't have that mindset..they lived and loved this land and understood it and lived very wonderful natural lives till we came..but humans are nomads and travellers and this earth is for all to see and understand. Respecting the values and cultures of early natives is paramount and its appalling that we treat them with contempt instead of embracing and learning from them...its all such a mess now it really is..Ive had my car smashed and broken into by young aboriginal lads so many times ive lost count..it makes me mad it really does..but thats how it is now..those boys should be learning the way their elders lived and trying to preserve their culture. Its so sad to see these young ones walk the streets looking to steal and rob...you cant blame them though..we have forced these people into a corner and we want to bitch when these things happen. Most of middle Australia is lying through its teeth if they say they are not racist to aboriginals..what is queer about all this is that we couldn't care a less about our local aboriginals but are fascinated by natives from other continents and want to understand and learn all about them..How many times do we see fat aging tourists walking around the Mayan temples fascinated by the ancient native cultures, or buying native American nik naks to put in their stinking souless 3 storey shit holes in suburbia.

Rather than say sorry I would prefer to offer my hand and time to give support and do something for real for those that genuinely need it..sorry seems pathetic and hollow to me...yeah SORRY..that makes it all better now... BULLSHIT..

I can just hear it coming out of a some Mosmanite's mouth in between swilling chardonay and spluttering vintage cheese from their lying mouths.

H...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never mentioned extra forms, on the same forms that everyone else fills out to apply for centrelink payments you will see a box asking if you are Aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander.

I knew someone who used to laugh about the fact that he got more money for being "aboriginal" and last I heard the situation hadn't changed, a few weeks ago a friend was asked by someone at centrelink when they were reviewing his payments whether he was aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander, he asked why and asked whether that would mean he was entitled to more money, they refused to answer the question and said that he would have to talk to the aboriginal affairs officer who never got back to him. Are you sure there are no extra benefits for aboriginals these days? Last I heard aboriginals were getting more money in centrelink payments, paid to go to funerals, paid to send their kids to school, free cars, free houses, interest free loans, etc, is this all wrong too? Have I been mislead?? I look forward to doing some serious mythbusting here.

Um, yes, there is a box. It is more a nosey holdover from the bad old times, more than anything. You don't get anything extra, I THINK (off the top of my head, never having claimed it myself) that ABSTUDY originally had an increased distance allowance component, basically a transport allowance as it was found at the time that whilst many regional indigenous youth were more than suited for tertiary education, their parents (by stats at the time) were in a much shittier position in general to pay for boarding fees, cover moving costs, etc. This has now levelled out, and the only "real" differences is that if you get cranky with centrelink, they MIGHT refer you to their pet blackfella, who is likely to be about as pasty as myself, and at least as resentful. But if they are found "favouring" the local colour, they get the arse, as I am sure you can understand. There are also specialised call centres that claim to be able to help out ppl who have english as a second language, but apparently they are more geared to european, asian,arabic and african dialects. I think they just pick the phone monekys for being able to withstand the occasionally highly descriptive remark, and a lil more patience. Never called it myself.

As for early payments, that's pure BS. Everyone gets their centrelink or FAO payments fortnightly, clockwork, assuming you reported or whatever. Early, psht. How does that work? You just get paid twice as often as anyone else? I can see that being about as popular with pigfaced beancounters as carpet burn on your cock.

Noone "gets a free car/house/anything" for being "black". You may, under localised or specialised development or cultural grants, be entitled to funding for a vehicle if one is required, but the same goes for the Arts Council that tours schools. You may be entitled to subsidised housing or community care, much like the Housing Commission anywhere.

The odd case of corruption or whatever, someone sees and old black "friend" from school and can't help but notice he drives a massive v8 commo with govt plates, gets confused IE jealous, not understanding the details or the restrictions... it's really just the old case of people not looking with facts in their mind but envy/fear/loathing in their hearts.

Trust me matie, if I could get a free car, house, hell even a cheap car or house, by any legal paperwork based means available to me right now solely on the basis of race, I would do so. Wouldn't you? But no such thing happens. Trust me on this ;)

Onceuponatime, there was SOMETHING of a swing towards "free stuff for black ppl" but it certainly isn't the case anymore, at the time it was done in the shadow of a governing principle of "different ppl have different needs"... back when things were complicated enough at a community level but simple enough at a technocratic level that it was "easier" to pigeonhole in some ways... whereas now, everyone is funded or judged by their earnings, assets, situation... anything. We have the means to crunch the details on an individual or family basis... of late, ticking the Black Box just makes you more likely to have half your income "managed" ie simply taken off you.

I know plenty of NW brissie ppl , white black and in between, that got big fat checks for jsut happening to get an awful lot of rain for a few days and losing power for a week... simply for rocking up. Click on the centrelink.gov.au website n look at the recent links. Is "regionalism" any more sincere or intelligent than "racialism"? Of course not, but they figure we can afford to probably pay the occasional perosn too much, versus noone getting any fucking thing. We ain't broke, here. 5000 for having a baby, noone is going to knock it back but well it's just discrimination on the basis of breeding preference, isnt it?

As long as anyone is giving a free buck to anyone else, someone ELSE is going to get all sour about it. The bloke that works under you wherever you work, doesnt think YOU'RE worth the pay disparity, if there is one. And if ther eisn't, there should be, hey? Stands to reason :P Only fair.

FTR, in total seriousness, common payments including family tax benefits A and B, newstart, parenting payment and the odd sprog related lump sum vote buyup strategy are all ENTIRELY income dependant, and the scales used to make those calculation are the same regardless of ticking that particular box... it's just a lot of sour rednecks out for every red cent themselves who noticed it back in the old barnsey days, "datamatched" it in their limited bitter way with the odd tale about subsidised course fees (for outlandish notions, such as chucking in a few bucks to make it easier for girls from communities to study nursing, yknow, dumb shit haha) and a LEGEND WAS BORN!

the "abo" with the brand new free car, who is too drunk to walk apparently but can drive the free nice car, who drives it nowhere cos he doesnt work but got his job cos hes black... at the end of the day he knocks off work to knock around his family (when they're not being paid double to become doctors,despite being of course illiterate), then sets a nice fire made of furniture in a stove , because despite being sharp enough to manipulate one of the most notoriously paperbound tapechoked bureacracies in the western world they "didn't know how the stoved worked, hahahahah, coons". The nice, fresh styled up clothes he wears out for quiet drinks with some work friends are stolen, despite him getting paid more for being black, and they're worryingly clean given he beats em over a washing machine wedged in a riverbank in his community.

Lil bits of truth add up to lots of bullshit... there were communities who had subsidised houses built, with ovens, but no electricity. They waited, requested, it never came thru. The high tension lines it relied on simply didn't exist, it was never possible and a monkey who could file alphabetically could've worked that out. So, some of em DID light fires in the ovens... because they'd been told by the generous scumbags who rocked up initially that "of course, youll be expected to keep the place clean, no rubbish or fires, and you wont need them anymore what with the nice new ovens!". Ditto with the washing machines... either sent to communities with water so alkaline it literally siezed them up, or simply sent clothes red... or to places with NO power and no plans for any... so the panels were pulled off, dished out a bit, and used as scrub boards in the cleanest flowing water the ladies could find.

Good on them. The best ANY of us can do with an inferior govt, is the best we can. I'd do the same.

As for domestic violence, it is of course an issue, but there is always the disparity between occurence and reporting, that's another thread entirely though and one that I really won't bother starting with, to give it too little time would be very disrespectful to ALL people involved.

FTR also, any kind of prejudice is fucked. I don't like it when I see a Timid White Guy just about shit his dacks when some cool young brothers get on the train... anyone with a brain sees thru the FUBU and sees the recent shave, the good smell, the cheeky grins... all he can see is a GANG. And, some ppl play up on that. Likewise, there IS a lot of "dumb white guy" "comedy" around... it's not very good, most of it, and IME dumb ppl are dumb ppl, race is no barrier to ignorance. The fact that the bulk of more commercialised white guy material is written by, and for, other white guys shouldn't escape you either... but there is that double standard there. White man can jump, sometimes... but then if the biggest thing you have to worry about from your position of relative social security is a MOVIE title, instead of just being able to take it as a joke, then that's a bit pissweak. Isn't it? In the face of an entirely industriosocietal infrastructure, datasphere, mediasphere, essentially set up for the amusement of white (or at least well off enough to get into some serious debt, which is the New White... likewise, plenty of white boongs around these days :P ) educated judaeo-christian males aged 18 to 65.

At the same time, there comes with that a lot of self loathing, which I gotta say, is pretty evident (and contagious). I mean really, when you see the box headed "serious man" in his big dark death dealing fourby with the mad keen stickers, his "i shoot and i vote" stickers, his token wife and three sports mad kids, raging hard at some poor girl in a hatchback cos he has to get to BWS or BCF by YESTERDAY... to pick something up to do with his Big Scary Ute or his Practically Equipped Shed...all deliverd in his carefully rehearsed-in-youth deeper than necessary tone of voice, legs astride, balls on the scratch... he does look like a wanker, who knows hes a wanker, just an overgrown spoilt child with something to prove, made more angry by the fact that he has NOTHING to be rightfully angry about at all other htan his own disconnection from anything approaching cultural or personal authenticity, a sense of self or communal function... we might all be "yeah fuckin aye" to his face, but behind it, we know he's just scared out of wits by something he can't put his finger on. All puffed with pride about having done nothing a squillion other ppl have done with almost machined precision of similarity.

There are also black guys with low self esteem and poor coping skills who end up hurting ppl, acting like cunts, killing themselves, drinkign too much, having to lay into the wife or kids to be The Man to someone, even if he can't be it to HIMSELF... instead of looking for ways to divide, I think its more helpful (and less irritant to the gut!) to look for what you have in common with the ppl you might be prone to mistrusting.

Eh, its a big issue, as I said bapho I can see how you'd hit the wrong buttons for a lot of ppl, I think you may have just swallowed the old suburban propaganda...yknow, like the one about us being mainly asian by 2020 or the ethnic gang that cut the lil boys dick off in the shopping centre toilets. see snopes.com, for all great urban myths, busted.

No hard feelings bapho, and I am not offended by you or your words (it would be kinda pointless anyway, we're all just words here ;) ) I just don't dig regurgitation of mis- or dis-information.

I'll club you a lizard sometime, you can get me a good deal on some WiFi or a southern cross tatt:P jk

VM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

actually, I'll ditch that and entirely on the basis of "paid to go to funerals, paid to send their kids to school, free cars, free houses,", I am awarding you Trollingest Pseudonym of L8 08 :D

For anyone that actually cares....

I'd like to call this... Shitebusting

I brushed up...a challenge where I can sit down and look at shiny things? I'm there! it's all a bit topsy turvy ATM, what with howard being a bastard and rudd being a sugarfree kinda bastard... basically, the immediate numbers on fortnightly payments look alright for ABSTUDY,til you realise it's means tested and assets tested the same as youth allowance, in many common circumstances. among other nasty catches, are "liquid assets"...which I'd like to call "instant de'feral"

"Liquid Assets:

Liquid assets are any readily available funds, including those of your partner, which you can access within 28 days of date you last worked.

* What assets are counted as liquid assets?

* What are not counted as liquid assets?

* How do liquid assets affect my payment?

* Can I be exempt from the liquid assets waiting period?

What assets are counted as liquid assets?

Liquid assets include:

* cash on hand

* shares and debentures

* term deposits

* other money available at short notice

* some payments made or due to be made (within 28 days) by your last employer;

* 10 year insurance bonds

* amounts deposited or lent to banks or other financial institutions whether or not the amount can be withdrawn or repaid immediately

* amounts borrowed from the bank for a specific purpose such as international travel that may not have been used for the said purpose

* assets given to a son or daughter in some circumstances

* loans to other people

* unencumbered proceeds from sale of business

* any money in trust funds, bank accounts including mortgage offset accounts, BUT NOT balances of mortgage redraw accounts

* redundancies or eligible termination payments that are not rolled over or cannot be rolled over

* compensation payments.

"

which sounds ok... til you dig into ABSTUDY and it turns out that once you have declared 2500 in ANY of the above, you may have your payments "deferred", guvspeak for "just go get a job or youll starve, and then you can't quit it just to study or we won't pay you anything at all, muwhawha". Whereas under standarfd issue race-irrelevant parenting payment (and entirely different payment, for entirely different reasons) you can call em up and mention picking up a grand or so, and they basically don't want to know unless it's from an ABN'd source. made 500 this week on ebay? they literally DON"T CARE, even if you declare it to them openly. try it :P The above list has exclusions listed on their site for superannuation, etc, but eh... its garbage, in comparison to the terms n conditions of their Newstart Package. Or the kickarse list of kind of confusing option if you go n get some kids from somwhere. Hint, having your own is tiring, but cheaper.

which puts people in the silly position beloved of centrelink nowadays, which is Trying to Make Them Tell Porkies... seriously, even some relatively hard up people can PROBABLY scum up a couple gs to live off, between two sensible adults, sometime in the next MONTH.... but you can't tell them that,then they can breach you, cut you, order repayments (which they did this year, to just about anyone recieving anything, regardless of the care they take with conservative or generous calculations ;) ) ... but they can still say "well we set aside x amount of funds, ppl just aren't reliable, or instead of listing you as "barely self sustaining this week" they will list you as "success!"... then they pocket the difference. centrelink, unbeknownst to most, has an ABN. scary.

to actually qualify for the dubious generosity of abstudy, which BTW at its average would pay (all listed figures on their site are allowable maximum payments, most ppl would get far less and whatever they got would be counted as total income, ie, it would knock them back in other regular free for all style payments and make them ineligible for things like Uncle Kevins recent xmas bonus for everyone and their dog) about as much as Disability (a mates mum recieves disability SOLELY because she is rooted from being an opiate addict, essentially, which is cool but if we can cough for that for at least halfway self inflicted conditons, why cant we pay the same or half of the same for accident of birth?) which is paid to some of the most professional bludging fuckers of all time.

so yeah, on the face abstudy pays better than austudy, by a chunk and a half or so... but the amount of extra bullshit you would have to go thru, the amount of basically sucking at life you would have to prove on paper to get it at ALL, let alone reliably enough to be able to call it "social SECURity"... explains why almost all indig aussies I know that have studied, did it on Austudy. Or newstart, as broken up tafe courses with constant interruption to explain to centrelink that they knew what you were doing all along anyway, can you get back to class now.

The cute thing is, the "Average Intended Consumer" of Abstudy would presumably be challenged enough to not be able to dig thru their crappy search engine for half an hour working out that its about as worth dealing with as Nigerian Life Insurance... so they'd sign up, with hopeful hands... only to be basically breached by default the minute they got any kind of useable, even emergency capital behind them that they were decent enough (or just avoidant of bullshit enough) to declare. Then youd be unable to claim any other payments for x amount of time... all very good on the surface, rotten as shit on the inside. Like an apple from Woolworths. At the "average kinda wholesome level" I chose at bloody random, say, 21, independent, partnered, no kids, you get about 20 bucks more than you would from newstart or parenting payment, but the conditions and obligations are almost laughably mean spirited, even by centrelink standards.

The only other indigidodge going from those guys are centrelink cadetships, but once you read into em basically you can tell already itwould turn out as "we keep a heap of pet drones for cheap repetitive office duties, and pay back their HECS but only once they've passed a semester,(remember when they paid everyones HECS? I dont, I'm too fucking young, so no uni for verty vert) no failed subjects paid out on" and very, very few ppl indeed would be at Doctorate pay rates... I reckon it'd stall out at an ASP 2, and you'd have to be pretty or funny or something to swing it that high up the chain. The average or at least most common pay rate works out, weekly, to LESS than many single, essentially freewheeling people receive fortnightly for doing NOTHING other than rocking up with a completed form once a fortnight and taking in your entire life in paperform whenever the system decides to dump you in the snakepit... also, with a work component at a govt office, you cant just save cash on student style clothing (or living)... youd need somewhere probably outer areas, nice shiny clothes, good smell, at least medium maintenance... and if you couldnt swing that out of your own pocket, theyd shitcan you under the guise of "communication issues" or "overskilled for job role".

The whole thing reads like a shitty mobile phone plan, or a no deposit home loan (havent looked into the low interest home loan, get back to you if i do). biscuits for mutts.

So... if you're genuinely brokearse, or a pretty dedicated scammer, you can make about half of not quite enough to live on, provided you can consistently demonstrate your capacity to sucessfully but gradually fail sideways.... by ticking that box. And that's if you're any good at playing numbers, rather than simply wanting to ... eh.... study something for the betterment of yourself and your people.

Otherwise, theyre not worth the trouble (and THEY know that any kind of house-trained sweet potato picker can work out them wordy things, yes maam) if you plan to get anywhere much but will need a lil help along the way (especially given how much they stand to make back off you in tax in the future, if it augers well) and they don't just breach your arse for a laugh in the meantime.

The verdict on "do you get more money from centrelink for being black?"..... only if you really, really suck at it but can still get your head around some of the most convoluted and laborious obligations known to any bludger since the invention of unsliced mulletcuts, and even then only kind of at the start, you will be automatically disallowed from claiming all kinds of run of the mill things that people who couldn't tell you where centrelink IS are allowed to claim for no good reason at all.

VM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I have a pretty good idea where the 'free money/cars/houses for blacks' comes from. When I came to oz I had no idea about the racial problems here. I wasn't even aware of the state of aboriginal culture. I was a bit more clued up when I moved to Taree 6 years later, but was not prepared for the racism thate existed on both sides there. For one, groups of kids from the Purfleet mission would simply pin individuals and even shopkeepers in the main street of Taree up against walls and demand money with statements like 'you're on our land - give us $10 now'. On the other side I also saw a huge amount of disrespect and hatred for these aboriginal kids [and their parents] which ran a lot deeper than just being pissed off about the crime and dramas they caused. But what shocked me the most was that virtually no one had even the slightest clue about aboriginal culture. No idea about their belief system or their law. In fact, the more religious types stated with full conviction that there was no spirtual element to aboriginal culture until the missionaries arrived.

My point is that the total ignorance white people have about black culture is staggering considering where we live. But it goes further. This total lack of respect and total ignorance is then topped off by what people see from the outside at Purfleet. New hosues are built in the mission with solar hot water, and all standard fittings. Quite nice places really. Within 2 months most doors were gone, the solar water system was smashed or sold off, weather boards were smashed, and the house looked like a ruin. After a year or two it would be rebuilt only to end up a ruin again within a few weeks.

The mission was also provided with cars every now and then. Brand new commodores etc. They never lasted more than a couple of weeks. Most were written off as a result of drunk driving or 10 year olds crashing into things, and a few got sold off or burnt out by the side of the road. Purfleet was only a few k from town so anyone driving along could see the dramas unfold on a daily basis. pretty much the only whites allowed into Purfleet were drug dealers or for the most part actually just pot dealers.

It is pretty hard to conjure up a scenarion where any Taree local might grow up with even a tiny amount of respect for the people at Purfleet in those days. This was the worst trailer park trash and antisocial human flotsam I have ever come across. And sadly this is what a lot of people from the NSW east coast know of aboriginal existence as there are a few such missions near major towns and I would think the others weren't that different.

I presume the money for the cars and houses was not given to aboriginal individuals and hence baphomet's generalisation is incorrect. The funding for these missions is probably not that different than council housing in other areas and for other groups and a similar sort of destruction goes on there as well. Just seeing it so concentrated at Purfleet was a real eye opener. I can understand where baphomet's comments come from as I have heard it from many other people who were witnessing the waste and destruction first hand. he is just misrepresenting them out of ignorance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah sounds just like the mission at Forster...new house's and cars every other few months it seemed..but the most ridiculous one was when they installed a tennis court on the mission..after about a week the flood lights had been smashed and the nets and poles ripped out...what the hell where they thinking!

H.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my home town in oz, i share with a lot of aboriginals and i think they have much nicer souls than caucasions.

some houses get trashed fast by them and there is rubbish everywhere, and some live in neat kept houses and wear nicer clothing than i do. so let's never generalize!

i hate it when, people make remarks like, look how they live, because in fact they only say this to make themselves feel better, like they are something better.

i belive most of those things have to do with there culture which thank god is still somehow embedded in there beings.

i mean if you lived for 40 000 years, dropping everything on the floor, and than since a 100 years you are supposed to use a rubbish bin, i guess the ancestral methode will not be eraticated that fast.

i have seen this rubbish problem aswell in other tribal cultures, what i mean is, that everything made by aboriginal people traditionally, would be made out of natural products, and they don't pollute and don't become an eyesore in such sence.

a bag made out of fibres or palm fronds, just left on the ground, is no problem, but a cheap fucking plastic bucket, and plastic carry bags are! so it's our influence.

another common theme is that aboriginals are always out of money, even shortly after recieving money, and often ask people for money. well again it's cultural, there culture (same happens in the pacific islands) is based on "giving",

so if one of them has money, the whole mob rightly expects to be taken care off till this persons money runs out, than hopefully somebody else will become the giver. this makes perfect sence, in a harsh enviroment like australia, were sharing would mean survival, and horting or holing on to funds, food or water by some individuals would not benefit the group.

when it comes to alcohol and drugs, again i think it has to do with culture, white people have been using alcohol on a regular basis for quite a long time, and i think this gives them just a bit more controll over alcohol, i suspect some genetic modifications take place if generations are exposed to a certain drug, which might give them some advantage.

to have no controll over alcohol is a common them in aboriginal societys all over the world!

and what pisses me off the most is, that settlers come into a culture and the first thing they do is, to destroy the ethnogenic plants and use of them which formed the base of there civilation.

they know consciously or subconsciously that "by destroying the sacrament" the native culture will be strongly weakend, and this will facillitate the introduction of "there own new order". thats what i call the "prayer insted of pastills" or beer instead of pituri, kava, coca..."

it's very hot in most parts of australia, so hot, it's hard to work outdoors, specialy in the summer, now imagen, that there is a product which helps you perform your daily chores, without loosing too much sweat, something that can make you endure the heat, without the need of much water, wouldn't that be great?

well, the natives had this, and it's name is pituri, till the white settlers destroyed it's use to a high degree, so don't blame anyone but yourselfe if now some aboriginals take it easy, you took ther petrol away, and cars don't drive without it, you silly billy's!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

planthelper's post just made me realise thatmy post might be misinterpreted as a generalisation. In no way do i want to suggest that all [or even most] aborigines live in the conditions I described about Taree/Purfleet, nor do I want to suggest that the destructive and self destructive nature that was evident at Purfleet is a representative sample of aboriginal culture.

All I was trying to do was to highlight that white people who grew up on the east coast and were exposed to these missions have good reason to believe the free cars/houses generalisations because that's what happened in these missions. I don't claim to have much understanding of aboriginal culture or to have had much contact, but I have had enough contact to know that Purfleet is close to the bottom of the barrel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first true love when I was a young lad growing up in Forster was this beautiful Aboriginal girl named Mandy...I'm so proud of her these days as she runs an amazing art company in Forster that has become quite well known around the world..Tobwabba..check it out guys the work is stunning. I'll be visiting the area over Xmas and usually pop in and say hi to her and her family...she still remembers me after all these years and we allways have a laugh about when we where in love back in high school...ahhh sweeeet memories.... :wub:

http://www.tobwabba.com.au/gallery.htm

H.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×