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Does Qi (Chi) energy exist?

Does Qi energy exist?  

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I had an interesting experience of distinctly feeling the flow of my own, what I can only refer to as, Qi moving around my body. I also had the sensation of feeling someone else's Qi. This experience was kinda out of the blue and quite surprising.

What is the connection between these kinds of subtle energies and the psychedelic experience? Does anyone actively use psychedelics to cultivate this or other kinds of subtle energy?

Edited by cycle

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IMO energy is just a subjective hallucination of the senses. I know what you mean by feeling it, and its particularly apparent to me during the hypnagogic state, where you can feel a whole 'energy' flowing through your body, vibrations and the such. The experience is very real and very strong. But i don't think it is real, just subjective 'hallucination'.

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IMO energy is just a subjective hallucination of the senses. I know what you mean by feeling it... The experience is very real and very strong. But i don't think it is real, just subjective 'hallucination'.

LOL! :D

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depends on your definition of chi. some translations you can read like breath or air. opening up chi pathways is oxygenating your body. but its much more than this as well. can mean the enrgy that exists in everything as well.

im saying yes to the question cause whatever energies that fit the description that do exist, do exist, therefore at least some types of chi exist. perhaps not the kung fu chi blasts in cartoons but hey, you cant have it all.

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oh yeah and cycle - i got a dvd of chi gong movements. is crazy, after doing some of these exercises you hold your hands together palm facing and its like you have two magnets pushing themselves away from each other. feels crazy and is meant to be the feeling of chi moving through you.

more than the novelty though the exercises are meant to be very good for you. now if only i actually kept at some of this stuff instead of spending so much time in front of computer screen...

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i got a dvd of chi gong movements. is crazy, after doing some of these exercises you hold your hands together palm facing and its like you have two magnets pushing themselves away from each other. feels crazy and is meant to be the feeling of chi moving through you.

I need to get these videos off of you. also Undergrounder.. you now also disbelieve energy also? Your cynical opposition to all things hippy or new agey has got you even disbelieving hard scientific fact (read: consensus agreement) that energy DOES exist. Now the further point of you explaining that this is a subjective hallucination that is very very convincing, but is unfortunately not true, is a very philosophical and deep view of reality. That energy is just an experiential phenomenon and therefore subjectively perceived and illusory stems back to the idea that all experiential phenomena are only as certain and real as our ideas and perceptions of them. Existence is all in the mind.

Yes it's all illusory, way to break on through to the other side. Now what good is it to say, yes it's all fake and even if you feel a connection and you can navigate through this fake creation better through it.. it is somehow to be dismissed as faker than the rest of this fake illusion. too much talk for what was already written by you as a self referential joke (hence the LOL).

Edited by The Dude

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i once did a two week intensive chi kung/gong residential retreat.

It was the first step in an intensive tai chi course.

For two weeks we did chi kung exercises & some other breathing exercises 3 times a day.

To my mind chi definitely exists.

"qi" can also legally be used in scrabble B)

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dont know about chi but i have had a very cohesive experience of chakras for at least 20 years and in recent times began to have experiences similar to altered states from holding some plant parts.

i do find it bizarre that others are not experiencing much of a similar nature or are not willing to admit it.

t s t .

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People who are not experiencing Chi directly are the one's who are "off" IMO.

But we live in an ignorant paradigm, in ignorant times.

So get some healing into ya, have 23 good acupuncture sessions and then tell me if you are not experiencing Chi flowing through the meridians! :lol:

Julian.

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The whole body is a chakra. Just not many people are aware of anything subtle.

Think about something a bit grosser than energy such as your heartbeat, something so obvious, continously pumping like some idling motor.

so naive in our niche :worship:

What most people feel tend to be around the hands head and feet.

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I dont think that is a hoax. I think Chi, Ki, Qi gong is real it has different names with different cultures but it is all the same energy. If you master this energy you can do almost anything with it. This video shows that if you can harness this energy you can use it at your will. This guy probably started his chi training when he was 2 or younger, and now he has mastered it. I have some fiends that do qi gong with a sword and after they finish their session you can feel that the sword is very hot and charged with energy. This is an ancient art form that was used by martial artists and healers for many generations. Great video!

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I need to get these videos off of you. also Undergrounder.. you now also disbelieve energy also? Your cynical opposition to all things hippy or new agey has got you even disbelieving hard scientific fact (read: consensus agreement) that energy DOES exist. Now the further point of you explaining that this is a subjective hallucination that is very very convincing, but is unfortunately not true, is a very philosophical and deep view of reality. That energy is just an experiential phenomenon and therefore subjectively perceived and illusory stems back to the idea that all experiential phenomena are only as certain and real as our ideas and perceptions of them. Existence is all in the mind.

Yes it's all illusory, way to break on through to the other side. Now what good is it to say, yes it's all fake and even if you feel a connection and you can navigate through this fake creation better through it.. it is somehow to be dismissed as faker than the rest of this fake illusion. too much talk for what was already written by you as a self referential joke (hence the LOL).

DUDE: I believe in things i have reason to believe in. I don't care whether its new age or not. I used to be a main contributor on an energy, OBE & Reiki website (believe it or not) and i was all into energy because i experience some weird energy sometimes. I've got all sorts of books on supposed energy. I know that the experience is real, i simply don't believe that the experience is Chi/Qi or any other energy system. I think its too easy to say "wow that was a real experience!" so "the experience must be Chi!". That's a big jump.

And It's not about -everything- being only as real as our ideas and perceptions of them: This keyboard is only as real as my experience of it, but it was manufactured by someone else, i can take photos of it, i can throw it through a window and the window breaks, it is a million times more objectively real than pure experience. But again, that does not mean pure experience is not real - i feel pain, and i know that is real because it is a common experience shared with other people, i know when it happens, i know what its use is, i know what causes it, i can point the parts of my brain that are known to cause it, and i have a fairly good understanding of it. The experience of "energy" might be a common experience, but that's where it ends. At its core it has all the trademarks of a subjective feeling, not an energy system that sustains my 'vital life force', that can supposedly boil water between my hands.

There's a differemce between energy and Chi. Energy is NOT "just an experiential phenomenon and therefore subjectively perceived", i can measure it on all sorts of objective scientific machinery, it's lighting up my computer right now, its even holding my body together if you really get down to it. The question is, can Chi do the same? If chi is real, and has a real effect on our body (which is material), then it also must be detectable on other material measurement apparatus. It should be objectively verifiable and affect everything. If it's a purely subjective phenomenon, which seems the most plausible to me, then i strongly doubt that it could be "hard scientific fact (read: consensus agreement)", because objective measurability is the cornerstone (and the limit) of science.

Also just in case, don't bring Chinese medicine into it (which i believe there is substantial supporting evidence for, and could be down to a whole range of things). We're talking about the energy system itself existing. I believe that all of the benefits and subjective experiences of chinese medicine, feng shui, martial arts, acupuncture, meditation, reiki etc are not related. I believe that they can be explained, or will be explained, without being forced to fall back on a mysterious subjective energy system that cannot be proven in science.

P.S. Ill read through more posts here but i have to study :(

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IMO energy is just a subjective hallucination of the senses.

I was just poking fun at the general claim that energy (as a concept in general) is a hallucination of the senses.. which i agree with, but knew you slipped up with words, being the reductionist materialist that you seem to be.

I just find it unfortunate that people are so hung up on the burden of material proof for things to be of any use. How about the idea of material existence being but a slice of the larger pie.. say there ARE other realms and energies that just cannot be fucked reducing themselves to prove themselves through some archaic measuring systems.. and not archaic in the terrence mckenna way.

I like the scene in Indiana Jones and the last Crusade where he has to make a leap of faith, and with clever camera work it's show that bridge was under him all along, he just had to walk across it to finally see it

Doubting the self restricts ones potential enormously. I mean if subjective experience is worth nothing.. I'm just a tool for some statistical mechanical scientific system, able to prove everything but somehow missing all that's real. If you've found inner peace of mind and good health and balance, then reconnecting to the subtle energies that permeat all and connect one to the all.. might not be necessary.

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If you've found inner peace of mind and good health and balance, then reconnecting to the subtle energies that permeat all and connect one to the all.. might not be necessary.

Thats the hard thing

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Yeah there could be entire universes of existence out there that simply do not interact with ours, and science is completely unable to know of their existence except through maybe mathematics, philosophy/theology and theoretical physics. The sticking point is we can't diffinitively say that they do or they do not exist. And in that case, in order to take the leap of faith and believe that they do exist, then you probably want fairly solid circumstantial proof from one of those fields (or others).

For instance the square root of negative one would seem to be an impossible number, and an impossible quantity under verifiable scientific measurement. But the very core of our most successful physics theories make use of it, and would not be possible without it. So is the square root of negative one possible? Science would strictly say not, but theory would say yes. It's not measurable, but it seems to exist nonetheless. Building an entire belief system and mythology about it (as Chi might), would be a task of imagination, and not much else.

Getting back to Chi, even if it is a purely subjective, unverifiable, but a very real experience, its very hard to build theories on it as a form of an "energy system" without the kinds of proofs that ordinary science gives us. It sounds to me like calling "thunder" the "roar of the Gods when they're angry" ... makes sense, certainly real, but totally wrong.

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Getting back to Chi, even if it is a purely subjective, unverifiable, but a very real experience, its very hard to build theories on it as a form of an "energy system" without the kinds of proofs that ordinary science gives us. It sounds to me like calling "thunder" the "roar of the Gods when they're angry" ... makes sense, certainly real, but totally wrong.

except that qi isn't anthropomorphised into some personification of natural phenomena, rather it is subjectively and I suppose by those feeling the vibe together, empirically tested and manipulated and proven to be useful.. at least subjectively and experientially, real enough to be useful = real enough to be true, cuz really wtf is real? who cares just help out and try to be useful with whatever methods you choose, go some 100% fake placebos if they're real enough to be useful. It is an act of doing, and not theorising anyway.

...

Also, using your example of square of negative one being physically impossible, yet theoretically useful and therefore real, alludes to many more ideas and theories that are unnacountable in the physical sense, but in a mode of thinking that transcends physical-reductionist-ideology limitations, they are useful and experientially repeatable and therefore real (if usefulness in building theoretical models defines realness). Imaginary numbers are good for calculating 3 dimensional vectors (from memory). Imaginary Archetypes are good for calculating n-dimensional vectors, and this qi connection of the life force (aka the holy spirit or kundalini etc...) is what communicates useful information via imaginary, impossible and transcendental means.

Edited by The Dude

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i remember being in an entheogenic state and going looking for my chakras......that may have started the proccess.

on stronger entheogens do you experience a disk of energy at the crown of your head?

this is a version of what i would experience as my crown chakra.

t s t .

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i also believe that as the human body has lines through which the qi travels (the microcosm), so the planet has lines through which the earths energy travels, & this grid probably permeates the whole universe (the macrocosm)--as above so below.

these are popularly called ley lines & have been recognised as such since the stone age.

people in tune with the flow ov chi can detect variations in the balance in both the human body & the body ov the earth. most would call it dowsing, another practice that goes back to at least the middle ages.

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does sex and masturbation(particularly masturbation) deplete ur chi?(from what ive read/heard it does)

i have noticed how much healthier both physically and mentally i am , if i do not cum for 10 days.

is there truth in this?

i am truly starting to believe that blowing loads on a daily basis is extremely bad for ur health.

edit:my grandfather used to dows for water, he was REALLY good at it, he used to locate places to bore for water on people propertys back in the 50's and 60's.

he was extremely succesful despite local skeptisism.

Edited by incognito

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